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Stu S
Stu S
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Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue

Feb 1, 2013 5:35 PM

On playback, PP6 randomly slows down and plays back choppy on visually complex shots.  It takes repeated stops and starts to clear it out.  I have troubleshot the life out of this, read every relevant thread, and tried everything imaginable to fix it.  Windows 7 pro is fully optimized.  There are no software conflicts (installed a drive with only windows and CS6)  I’ve got plenty of horsepower - 3930K in an asusp9x79pro, gtx 670 w/4mb, 32mb ram, OC to 4.5.  Eric Bowen at ADK has personally tuned the system and done a manual overclock. Memtest confirms the ram is fine. There are no hardware issues. Dropped frame indicator stays green, no dropped frames.  Switching from hardware to software mercury playback does nothing.  Rendering has no effect, nor do any playback settings. It happens with AVCHD and h.264 mp4’s as well, on short clips, not just long ones. It does not happen outside of ppro. Since I have eliminated hardware and software issues, all this leaves is Premiere.

 

As Eric explains it, it is a cache buffering issue, related to how the nvidia card and ppro interact, and he sees it frequently enough.  I can't do his explanation justice, but he has offered to jump in and provide more detail if need be.

 

Whatever it is, it’s ridiculous.   It is totally unacceptable to play down a sequence and have it intermittently slow down  on a system with this much power that has been properly set up by a pro.  It’s a shame, because it’s the only thing from keeping ppro/cs6 from being the best platform I’ve edited on in my 12 years as an editor.

 

I’ve filed a bug report, but gotten no response.  If others are seeing it, and can file a bug report, maybe it will be publicly acknowledged and resolved.

 

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

1077 Views   16 Replies   Latest reply: Stu S, May 20, 2013 7:07 PM
 
Replies
  • Robert Scarfe
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    1. Robert Scarfe,
    Feb 15, 2013 4:03 AM   in reply to Stu S
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    I get exactly the same problem. Upgraded from  Premier Pro  5.5 - which incidentally always gave very smooth playback on the same hardware,  Windows 7 Pro - on an i7 12G Ram GTX470 GFX Striped Media Drive. And  now with CS6 I get intermittent choppy playback, which looks like an occasional dropped frame, with all media types SD and HD but worst with H264 or AVCHD. I also have the dropped frames indicator staying green at all times, the same as you. As a side issue it means that I can't print any SD back to tape as the video stutters etc. It is no good in a professional enviroment with this hesitant video issue. Do you think it is a hardware or a software problem? If anybody has experienced and cured this, please let me know.

     
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  • Stu S
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    2. Stu S,
    Feb 15, 2013 6:46 AM   in reply to Robert Scarfe
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    Unless someone can point to something that I, or Eric, who is as experienced an integrator as they get, have missed, then it's a PP 6 issue.  It would be most appreciated if Todd or Kevin could jump in and either offer additional avenues to explore to fix it, or acknowlege that it is an issue that Adobe is working on.

     
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  • mde.tv
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    3. mde.tv,
    Mar 27, 2013 2:56 PM   in reply to Stu S
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    Anybody find any answers? I'm having the same problem... 3930K with 64GB RAM, GeForce GTX 460... video is choppy and slow even when the preview files are rendered to an SSD. This sucks!

     
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  • Stu S
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    4. Stu S,
    Mar 27, 2013 3:58 PM   in reply to mde.tv
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    It would certainly be appreciated if Adobe acknowledged the issue and said they were working on it.  In the meantime, a bug report is your only option.

     
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  • Milo Maya
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    5. Milo Maya,
    May 18, 2013 6:39 PM   in reply to Stu S
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    Hi,

    I  think I have similair problem. First of all my current specs is:

    Asus Sabertooth z77 mainboard with intel i7 2700K processor

    32 gb (8*4) ram

    120 gb ssd sata3 drive for OS and CS6

    500 gb sata3 7200rpm hd for cache files

    1 tb sata3 7200rpm hd for source video and audio

    and finally Nvidia GeForce GTX 660 Ti with 2gb of memory

    Blackmagic shuttle io card etc

     

    This system were combined specially for my endless highend compositing needs and it works like a charm with all applications other than Premiere Pro.

    Yesterday I barley finished editing a short (approx 2 minutes) 1080p project that shot with Canon 5D MKII. Without using mercury playback engine application

    works fine but once I activate it all playback became really slow and laggy and sometime it freeze if I move playhead quickly.

    I only use one video and one audio track in timeline so we can say this editing scenario is a fundamental for production grade NLE application.

    My graphic processor has a lot of cuda power but Adobe doesn't support it natively so I have to edit  the famous text file.

    On CS5 and CS5.5 I done lots of 1080p project with my old gtx 480 card and I never encountered any similair problem.

    I hope my favorite and trusted software company Adobe will find the problem and will fix it soon...

     

    Thanks

    M.Maya

     
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  • napynap
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    6. napynap,
    May 18, 2013 10:00 PM   in reply to Milo Maya
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    Milo Maya, the problem you describe seems to be very similar to an issue I recently encountered. Although we have different graphics cards, the cause could be the driver...  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1202944

     
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  • jamesp2
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    7. jamesp2,
    May 19, 2013 7:13 AM   in reply to Milo Maya
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    Just to keep this matter current and in view, I'll also note laggy performance and slow time-line responsiveness with both AVC-intra and AVCHD footage, even with [only] one track of video. 

     

    This occurs when jumping from one cut to another, particularly in areas of the t-l where there has not been recent playback.  Takes several seconds to display the correct frame, and play.

     

    Many times, there are also often dropped frames on the first attempt to play a clip (at "full").

     

    This is with the latest nvidia driver (for the 660ti).

     
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  • Milo Maya
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    8. Milo Maya,
    May 19, 2013 2:29 PM   in reply to napynap
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    Nope, I always update my drivers periodically...

     
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  • Stu S
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    9. Stu S,
    May 19, 2013 2:43 PM   in reply to jamesp2
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    Kevin Monihan was not even aware of it, and did not know if this bug was being worked on, though Harm confirmed that it has been reported to Adobe's engineers.  Please see posts 657 - 667 on this thread:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/5334463#5334463

     

    He has promised to look into it, but if we do not keep pressing for a response, we will not get one, so please continue to post, follow up with Kevin, and file bug reports (though these have proved useless so far).

     

    It's very upsetting, as this is a core function of the program that is broken, and although Adobe has had many months to fix it, they have not even publicly acknowledged it.  Very disappointing.

     
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  • SteveHoeg
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    10. SteveHoeg,
    May 20, 2013 1:14 PM   in reply to Stu S
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    Hey Stu - This is not an issue the Premiere Pro team is familliar with, and does not sound similar to any we have worked with Harm on. Can you provide any guidance to help us reproduce on our side?

     
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  • Stu S
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    11. Stu S,
    May 20, 2013 1:54 PM   in reply to SteveHoeg
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    Hi Steve,

     

    Thanks for jumping in.  In addition to the info in my first post, I'm not sure what other info to provide.  I'm going to ask Eric Bowen to jump in, he's far more capable than me at articulating the problem.  Later tonight, I'll also try to post a video sample.

     
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  • ECBowen
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    12. ECBowen,
    May 20, 2013 4:01 PM   in reply to SteveHoeg
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    The issue is the frame buffering of expected frames with AVC. Should you take the transport and move to a new location, the program out takes  1 to 3 seconds to update to the new media location. If you shuttle through the timeline forward or backward, the preview stops after so many frames and will not update until you stop the transport a wait a few seconds. The Jog and Shuttle performance issue was reported with CS5.5 and was never resolved. However with CS6, the Program monitor taking seconds to rebuffer the current frames is causing major issues with editors who are use to jumping through media quick making cuts and such. Any AVC media that I have seen shows this issue especially AVCHD. H264 also will show it. Cineform media seems to not show the issue at all. That is why this really looks to be a buffer caching issue with specific codecs. Changing Video drivers will shorten or lengthen wait time on caching the current frame some but not much. This has been reported before in the forums. I am surprised that this has never gone to the Premiere Pro team since I know bug reports were submitted then.

     

    Eric

    ADK

     
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  • Jim Simon
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    13. Jim Simon,
    May 20, 2013 5:19 PM   in reply to ECBowen
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    I'm no software engineer (any more), but I'm curious what makes you think it's a bug and not just unrealistic expectations of editors wanting DV performance out of the very difficult to edit AVCHD media?  I mean, is there something going on at the software or driver level that you're been able to test?

     

    I ask because I see similar lags when I work with 12 GOP patches on my GH2, but with I-frame patches the performance is significantly better, almost DV-like.  Same codec, different encoding scheme, so I just attributed the performance lag to the nature of the media.  I'd be interested to know if you're seeing things 'under the hood' (as it were) that lead you to a different conclusion.

     
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  • jamesp2
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    14. jamesp2,
    May 20, 2013 6:53 PM   in reply to Jim Simon
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    To confirm Eric's observation that this time-line display lag is unique to AVC and AVCHD footage, I exported a number of AVC-Intra clips to Avid DNxHD, using  a data rate commensurate with the original.

     

    Unlike the AVC-intra clips, the Avid clips update instantly on the time-line, no matter how fast you move.  It's a night and day difference!

     

    It's astonishing that this matter hasn't been addressed with a fix, as editing AVC material can be real drudgery, given this poor responsiveness. 

     

    I'd also add that in my experience AVC I-frame footage isn't noticeably better than long GOP stuff.  It's all slow.

     

    Am I right in assuming that as Adobe is apparently unaware of this problem, PPRo CC will offer no fix????

     
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  • Jim Simon
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    15. Jim Simon,
    May 20, 2013 6:54 PM   in reply to jamesp2
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    I'd also add that in my experience AVC I-frame footage isn't noticeably better than long GOP stuff.  It's all slow.

     

    Hmm.  I'm seeing the opposite.

     

    I just shot some AVC-I today on a freelance gig.  I'll have to see if I can get my hands on some of that.

     
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  • Stu S
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    16. Stu S,
    May 20, 2013 7:07 PM   in reply to SteveHoeg
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    SteveHoeg wrote:

     

    Hey Stu - This is not an issue the Premiere Pro team is familliar with, and does not sound similar to any we have worked with Harm on. Can you provide any guidance to help us reproduce on our side?

    Hi Steve,

     

    Below is a link to a down & dirty shot of my screen that illustrates a clear example of this.  Watch the video play down and you'll see the choppiness kick in at about 4 seconds.  Then, I stop the timeline, and replay the same shot, at 19 seconds in, and it plays down perfectly.  This happens all the time, on all sorts of shots - they internmittently downshift into slo mo, then shift back to normal with a stop and start.  It's impossible to work this way.

     

    https://vimeo.com/66611187

     

    Here's a clean export, in which the grass moves properly, for reference.

     

    https://vimeo.com/63214663

     

    Thoughts?

     
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