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cc2545
Currently Being Moderated

Soft return affecting running headers

Feb 2, 2013 5:41 PM

Tags: #indesign #book #indesign_runningheaders

Hello!

 

I have a Running Header that is using my style from my Chapter Name in my book. In the chapter name on the page, I've used a soft return. Now my Running Header only shows half of the chapter name because I used a soft return in the title on the page.

 

Is there any work around for this?

 

Thanks!

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 2, 2013 5:43 PM   in reply to cc2545

    Don't use a soft return. You're breaking the text.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 3:42 AM   in reply to cc2545

    Let's start by finding out why the chapter heading needs to break, and if that is always true, or just on some chapters.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 5:49 AM   in reply to cc2545

    Can you not define two variables based on two paragraph styles--one for the first line of chapter title, one for the second line of chapter title and put them in the header? If the second isn't used it won't display.

     

    Mike

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 7:42 AM   in reply to cc2545

    Variables don't break across lines, and they pick up exactly the text that is carrying whatever style is selected, so if you use a soft return and specify a paragraph style your header text will ose everything beyond the line break (because the varialbe cannot wrap). You can use two paragraph styles (that differ only in their names, if you like) and a hard return with two paragraph style variables, and a space between, or you can use two character styles applied to the different lines in a single paragraph with the forced break and two character style-based running headers, again with a space between.

     

    The character styles, if you use this method, should have no attributes at all other than a unique name so they do not change the formatting. You can apply the characters styles as nested styles in the paragraph style (a good way to do it becasue the disappear completely when you assign a new paragraph style to the variable text itself, or to a TOC listing that uses the paragraph style). The character style method in connection with a forced line break may make your life easier when it's time to build the TOC since the chapter headings will use only one paragraph style. You will, though, need to use find/change on the TOC to replace the forced line breaks with spaces.

     

    To use the nested style approach you define the basic formatting of the paragraph style, then in the nested styles section appy character style 1 up to 1 forced line break, none through 1 character, and character style 2 through 1 sentence.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 8:31 AM   in reply to cc2545

    A break is a break. Either way you would need to remove it if desired in the TOC.

     

    I suppose one could use a frame which is attached to the text. One line for the header and each frame adjusted so the text would wrap where desired for each chapter. One paragraph style, one line in the TOC.

     

    Mike

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 8:34 AM   in reply to MW Design

    That's correct. The differnce, though is you only need to include one paragaph style if you use the forced break approach, which makes things a bit simple in building the TOC.

     

    To get your second line indent, add that amount as a left indent to the pargarph style, then add the same amount as a negative to the first line. This is called a hanging indent.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 9:10 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    I think it might work with InDesign CS6's text frame Auto Size feature and a combination of techniques mentioned above. Just a wild stab, didn't try to test.

     

     

    HTH

     

     

    Regards,

     

     

    Peter

    _______________________

    Peter Gold

    KnowHow ProServices

     

    Peter Spier wrote:

     

    That's correct. The differnce, though is you only need to include one paragaph style if you use the forced break approach, which makes things a bit simple in building the TOC.

     

    To get your second line indent, add that amount as a left indent to the pargarph style, then add the same amount as a negative to the first line. This is called a hanging indent.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 9:13 AM   in reply to peter at knowhowpro

    You lost me, Peter. Can you explain what you are thinking?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 10:11 AM   in reply to cc2545

    cc2545 wrote:

    I have a Running Header that is using my style from my Chapter Name in my book. In the chapter name on the page, I've used a soft return. Now my Running Header only shows half of the chapter name because I used a soft return in the title on the page.

     

    That is contrary to my experiences so far, so I checked with InDesign CS4, CS5, and CS6. This is the behavior I remembered: a soft return gets converted to a regular space. There is no difference between a Paragraph style (left header) and a Character style (right header).

     

    hdr.png

     

    However ...

    If I change the type from "First on Page" to "Last on Page", soft returns are suddenly discarded!

     

    hdr2.png

     

    (This is on my Mac; does Windows show the same erratic behavior re: Soft Returns?)

     

    No amount of resizing the frame ever makes parts of the header invisible. If the text frame is too small, the header just gets crunched up to fit; it'll never wrap to a second line. Also, since soft returns aren't picked up, you will never get a "second line" that way either.

     

    So it's not what the OP is experiencing.

     

    I would like to see a screenshot from a page showing both chapter title and the resulting header, with Invisible Characters on.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 10:32 AM   in reply to [Jongware]

    Wow, is that strange....

     

    Here's a screen shot from Win7 and ID 8.0.1 (CS6):

    Running Head variables.png

     

    As you said, the forced break was converted to a space when using first on page, but it was just dropped entirely when using last.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 10:47 AM   in reply to cc2545

    Stranger still. I get the smae behavior in CS5 as in CS6. Is your CS5 updated to the 7.0.4 patch?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 10:54 AM   in reply to cc2545

    Can upi show us a screen shot of the heading with non-printing characters showing?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 11:03 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    > As you said, the forced break was converted to a space when using first on page, but it was just dropped entirely when using last.

     

    Submitted as Bug. It's potentially harmful, as it is an unexplainable and unnecessary random difference when you toggle from First to Last on Page.

     

    cc2545, unfortunately this issue seems unrelated to yours. Care to show a screenshot? Perhaps there is something else in your file that messes up things for you.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 11:28 AM   in reply to cc2545

    Can you show us the real file? I suspect Jongware wants to figure out why that was different, and I know I do.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2013 11:51 AM   in reply to cc2545

    I'm confused at this point. In your first post you said everything after the soft return was missing. My suspicion is that you actually had a hard return, not soft, since none of us, at this point is seeing text after the line break disappearing.

     

    The use of the character styles may still turn out to be the best option since it works around the apparent bug with the dropped space, but we haven't really answered what was happening in the original problem.

     
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