Skip navigation
Currently Being Moderated

Printing from CS5, Photoshop Manages Colors

Feb 5, 2013 12:04 AM

I only do photo quality prints to Epson matte  a few times a year so I run test prints with various settings to get what I want. My granddaughters wanted some prints from a web site framed and my wife wanted  prints of an emailed photo of their old mountain cabin. I had to do some color manipulation of the cabin, but the web site images had been expertly processed and all I had to do was print properly. I experimented with the cabin image print settings. Epson changed the names of all their papers, so the Epson print profiles in the print dialog didn't match the name on the matte paper box. I deciphered that, but I wasn't happy with the result so I tried two of the other Epson profiles and hated it. There's quite a long list of profiles available, some specific, and some just conventional color spaces like sRGB, aRGB. For the heck of it I tried Pro Photo RGB as a printer to paper profile. The print of the cabinimage with an embedded aRGB profile was everything I could want. I did the web site sRGB images the samwe way and they were really nice.

The puzzle is this: What does using Pro Photo RGB as an instruction to the printer cocerning what it is printing to thru Photoshop even mean? The printer has never heard of the colors possible in Pro Photo, and the source image is in sRGB ( verified by Photoshop). I can conceive that an RAW image should be rendered as aRGB for inkjet and that the inkjet has some blues that are outside the aRGB, but I can't understand telling an inkjet to use Pro Photo to print sRGB.

Maybe gator soup knows what I'm trying to get at.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 5, 2013 7:55 AM   in reply to Lundberg02

    a screen shot where you are seeing ppRGB may help, also your model printer and OS

    and a screen shot of your File> Print window

     

    for the correct profile, the instructions that came in the box of paper should call out the proper profile by its short name

     

    i don't do much contract proofing so the canned OEM profile/paper works okay for me...

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2013 9:15 AM   in reply to Lundberg02

    you mean set the Printer Profile to ProPhotoRGB?

     

    PP.jpg

     

    i don't even have ppRGB available in the Printer Profile list...

     

    select Pro Photo RGB? It implies that somehow reverse render is posssible, i e you can expand sRGB into a wider gamut. I don't think so.

     

    Convert a sRGB source doc to ppRGB

    then Softproof it in: sRGB

    get out of proof colors mode

     

    convert it back to sRGB

    then Softproof it in: sRGB

     

    something is definitely going on...

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2013 9:21 AM   in reply to gator soup

    okay, the ppRGB shows in CS5

     

    but what's the point of using it here???

     

    pp2.jpg

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2013 4:38 PM   in reply to Lundberg02

    When you say "far better", are you saying the colors match what you see on the screen more closely?

     

    How does the print differ, as best you can describe it, when you choose, say, sRGB in that field instead of ProPhoto RGB?  Is there an overall difference (desaturation, more saturation, etc.)?

     

    I'm wondering if maybe the printer driver is being told what the incoming profile is and making a second transformation of the colors.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2013 6:04 PM   in reply to Lundberg02
    point is that it prints far better than using any Epson profile.

     

     

    reads morelike "Printer Manages Colors" behavior

     

    that's why i like to see screen shots these days...

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2013 8:33 AM   in reply to Lundberg02

    I wish I had an understanding of what Photoshop means by giving you the choice of a general color space, as well as many others

     

    i am hearing you... did you ever look at doing simple profile conversions in Acrobat

    now there's a confusing disaster (it's no wonder people shy away from profiles and color management)

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/5019931

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2013 8:45 AM   in reply to Lundberg02

    Lundberg02 wrote:

     

    These are good questions and I'll investigate, but I wish I had an understanding of what Photoshop means by giving you the choice of a general color space, as well as many others, such as tv spaces.

     

    To be honest, I haven't figured printing color-management out with Photoshop CS6 either - I've experiemented with my own setup and printer and found what gives ME the best results here, and the settings weren't quite what I expected either.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2013 9:53 AM   in reply to gator soup

    .

    Photoshop CS6 File> Print “Photoshop Manages Colors” gives you

     

    1. a Document Profile (Source),
    2. a Printer Profile (Destination), and
    3. a Rendering Intent (with Black Point Compensation option)

     

    that’s pretty straight forward, IMHO

     

    if those settings don’t paint the ink on your paper as faithfully and effortlessly as Photoshop paints the pixels on your monitor – then I would speculate either

     

    1. the monitor profile is off,
    2. the printer profile is off,
    3. something was missed in the print driver,
    4. there are color gamut or profile issues with the Source document
    5. or there are bugs/corruption involved…

     

    i am not talking about complicated engineering explanations or extreme examples

     

    i am talking about a simple work flow that regular users (like me) can (and do) use on a daily basis to get their work done

     

    when it doesn't work, a reset/review of the settings may be in order (don't depend on Presets)

     

    and View> Proof Setup> Custom "Customized Proof Condition"> Device to Simulate: Printer Profile may help clue one to the problem(s):

     

    proof.jpg

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2013 3:59 PM   in reply to Lundberg02

    you have a choice of Color Sync or Epson (on a Mac

     

    in the "Photoshop Manages Colors" work flow, you shouldn't be concerning yourself with ColorSync (or Epson controls)

    you do have Adobe (ACE) set as the Conversion Options: Engine (in Ps Edit> Color Settings> More Options> Conversion Options )?

     

    but let me go over the basic framework of this workflow in CS5:

     

    it may be a wise move to delete your printer from Print & Fax and add it back (as well as updating to the latest driver)

     

    1) Open a copy of WhackedRGB PDI test image in Photoshop

    USE THE EMBEDDED PROFILE (do not convert)

    confirm the "Document Profile" in the lower-left corner of Ps window

     

    1whacked.jpg

     

    2) File> Print will pull up this window (below)

    DOCUMENT PROFILE is WhackedRGB.icc

    PRINTER PROFILE is your specific printer/paper/ink ICC profile

    RENDERING INTENT (try Perceptual)

    BLACK POINT COMPENSATION (try checking this)

    if you are using CS6 be sure to uncheck 16-bit color

     

    2FilePrint.jpg

     

    3) click on Printer Settings... and Printer Settings> Basic to pull up the following screenshot

    Media Type is the "type" of paper surface (not an ICC profile)

    Color Mode: Off (No Color Management) should be grayed (using Photoshop Manages Colors)

     

    3PrinterSettings.jpg

     

    AT THIS POINT HITTING SAVE> PRINT is the correct move to start the printing

    you don't need to monkey around the other areas under this basic tutorial

     

    if you want to look at Advanced Color Settings to verify driver color management is "off" (for all practical purposes) -- click on Color Settings and confirm:

     

    4Advanced.jpg

     

    here is a more complete EPSON CS5 PRINTING TUTORIAL using an older version of the Epson 7880 print driver

     

    here is a more complete EPSON CS6 PRINTING TUTORIAL

     

    i hope this helps...

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2013 4:26 PM   in reply to Lundberg02

    Lundberg02 wrote:

     

    I agree, I kick it til works because I don't think color management is matrure as yet.

     

    Not sure it's a maturity issue, but things certainly don't respond as you'd expect - as they used to.  I too saw a situation in testing where it didn't matter what profile I provided - where that SHOULD have made a huge difference.  I don't know if it's a bug, or the software outthinking us, but there's just a bit too much complicated "magic" implemented behind the scenes.

     

    Gary's right, it should just work as you'd expect - no rocket science - but it doesn't.  Something important changed at the time of Photoshop CS6.  Maybe Photoshop stopped bending over backwards to try to compensate for latent driver issues, I don't know.

     

    Since I found a combination of settings (several, actually - more than I expected) that give me prints that closely match what's shown on my displays, the implementation of Photoshop printing is just one of those things I've never found time to get back to trying to figure out to the next level so that I could help others understand it.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2013 5:29 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Gary's right, it should just work as you'd expect - no rocket science - but it doesn't.

     

    it is working here (my print is reasonably faithful to my hardware 'calibrated' monitor) -- is my point -- under OSX 10.6 and 10.7 using Epson Stylus Pro 7880 (driver 8.66) and Epson OEM paper/ink/profiles (with the settings recommended in my screenshots)

     

    sorry, i should have been more clear

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2013 6:24 PM   in reply to gator soup

    That's why I mentioned drivers (HP in my case).  There is clearly a new factor that's been introduced that makes things not work as expected under some conditions.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2013 7:32 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    .

    okay, i see where you are talking about an HP printer, assume an inkjet, on Windows 8

     

    if that's a professional series printer, you should let HP know it has problems

     

    i'm going to stick to my Epsons for now, and can tell you they print as expected under a basic "Photoshop Manages Colors" workflow

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 8, 2013 7:53 AM   in reply to Lundberg02

    I'm running 10.8.2

     

    i haven't tested 10.8, but every other OSX i've tried works with my Epsons

    just curious, what printer model

    it may be helpful to post screenshots of your basic settings

     

    What does Photoshop send to the screen when the image is untagged.

     

    easy answer

    when Ps Document Profile reads "untagged"

    Ps "Assigns" (or more correctly assumes) its working profile

     

    in addition to basing its Source> Monitor conversion on the working profile, Ps also bases its Source> Printer conversion on the working profile (under that untagged scenario)

     

    Source> Monitor is easy to prove

    open a RGB document using its embedded profile

    Edit> Assign Profile: Working Space (profile)

    example, if Edit> Color Settings> Working Spaces> RGB is sRGB - then Assign sRGB

    that move should "match" the display if you open the same doc and don't use the embedded profile (don't color manage)

    the test would be more dramatic if you used a ProPhotoRGB doc

     
    |
    Mark as:

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points