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Premiere elements: joining 2 projects

Feb 5, 2013 1:09 PM

Hope you don't mind me asking here as there doesn't seem to be a "elements" forum...... I'm asking on behalf of my father who uses Premiere elements (I am a Vegas user ) so am not too up on the workings of Adobe NLE's. He has 2 edited projects he wishes to combine so he can render as one complete final piece. I just told him to copy and paste one project onto the other project's time line but he said he couldn't do this in elements..... is this true? If so my only advice to him would be to render out as an avi file or similar and import both rendered versions onto the same timeline - seems a bit long winded to me.... any other ideas?

 

Your help is appreciated

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 5, 2013 1:22 PM   in reply to Pilsburypie

    as there doesn't seem to be a "elements" forum......

    Actually there is:

    http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere_elements

    A moderator will come along soon and move it to the right forum.

     
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    Feb 5, 2013 3:15 PM   in reply to Ann Bens

    Yes, I'm moving it.

     
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    Feb 5, 2013 5:47 PM   in reply to Pilsburypie

    I don't know there is a simple copy and paste technique between projects in any NLE.

     

    The solution in PrE11 is to "Publish and Share" to a computer file from Project A in a useful format for Project B.   The specifications of that file depend on a variety of variables, including the project setting for project B.  Also, there may be a desire for perfect picture quality that may not be achievable.

     

    I put an entire project on a Blu-Ray and the file was useable in another project, much to my surprise.

     

    If you do need near perfect "lossless" quality in project B there is a thread written by an expert describing a lossless codec for doing that.  See:  http://forums.adobe.com/message/4556586#4556586#4556586 

     

    Bill

     
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    Feb 5, 2013 6:01 PM   in reply to whsprague

    Copy and paste between projects definitely won't work in Premiere Elements. And neither will working with a lossless codec.

     

    The smartest move it os use Publish &Share to output each movie and the combined the finished movies in a new project.

     

    How you do that depends on which version of the program you're using and whether your final piece will be output to DVD or BluRay disc.

     
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    Feb 5, 2013 6:20 PM   in reply to Steve Grisetti

    Steve Grisetti wrote:

     

    ..... And neither will working with a lossless codec......

     

     

    What part of Bill Hunt's article is wrong or misleading?

    ( http://forums.adobe.com/message/4556586#4556586#4556586#4556586 )

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 5, 2013 6:41 PM   in reply to whsprague

    I dunno. Bill and I disagree, I guess.

     

    miniDV video, HDV video, AVCHD video and MP4 video all work with lossy codecs. Using a lossless codec between one AVCHD project and another is like having a 4-lane highway in between two city streets. Yes, it's crazy big -- but the traffic you can fit on it is still limited what can fit on the streets at either end.

     

    So I guess using a lossless codec file to transfer from one project to another is harmless. It's 5 to 10 times the size you need and it doesn't give you any better quality -- but I suppose you can do it if you want.

     

    I just think the more efficient workflow makes more sense.

     
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    Feb 6, 2013 5:34 AM   in reply to Steve Grisetti

    Steve Grisetti wrote:

     

    I dunno. Bill and I disagree, I guess.

     

    miniDV video, HDV video, AVCHD video and MP4 video all work with lossy codecs. Using a lossless codec between one AVCHD project and another is like having a 4-lane highway in between two city streets. Yes, it's crazy big -- but the traffic you can fit on it is still limited what can fit on the streets at either end.

     

    So I guess using a lossless codec file to transfer from one project to another is harmless. It's 5 to 10 times the size you need and it doesn't give you any better quality -- but I suppose you can do it if you want.

     

    I just think the more efficient workflow makes more sense.

    Thank you.

     
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    Feb 6, 2013 7:20 AM   in reply to whsprague

    When doing work with several Export/Share and Import operations, I work to keep the ultimate quality, even at the cost of larger files. The more times that I will go to an intermediate, the more often I go with a Lossless CODEC, like Lagarity, or UT.

     

    If I am ONLY going to be doing an Export/Share, for SD material, then the DV-AVI format/CODEC works OK. It is only ~ 5% compression, and with one generation, will never be noticed.

     

    However, if one is starting with compressed material (whether SD, or HD), then outputting to a compressed CODEC, Importing that, to do additional editing, then Exporting/Sharing THAT, yet again, I feel that the Lossless CODEC's are worth both the little extra time, and the larger file sizes.

     

    I often edit a Project, then output that to an intermediate, to be Imported into, say After Effects, where more work is done, then that AE Comp is output, and the resultant file Imported back into the editing program, for more work, only to be output again, say to DVD-Video, or BD (both of which apply pretty heavy compression). Then, I look to the intermediates.

     

    For me, with the exception of the DV-AVI for SD material, all other compression schemes begin looking like a FAX of a FAX pretty quickly.

     

    Steve is 100% correct in that the resultant files WILL be large, so will take more time to Export/Share, and then to Import, but PrE (and PrPro) can work smoothly with Lagarith or UT. If one is limited in HDD real estate, then they might forgo the additional quality, for smaller files. That is always the trade off.

     

    To use an automobile analogy (always seem popular in the Adobe Forums), if one's auto runs best on 91 ocatne fuel (and the mfgr. recommends that), but one wishes to save money (i.e. file size here), they could probably get by with 87 octane fuel - but the engine will not perform at its best, mileage might well decrease, etc., and over time, some damage might be done to the engine. To me, with several intermediate steps, the Lossless CODEC's are like the 91 octane fuel.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Feb 6, 2013 7:35 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    I may be missing something here, but if you want to end up on a DVD and make 2 movie files (AVI) that can then be conbined into a new project. While each AVI may be larger than necessary, wont the final encoding to MP2 accomplish a compession really based on the length on the combination?

     
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    Feb 6, 2013 7:42 AM   in reply to TVPOA Chan3

    You are correct. With a DVD-Video Project, I would just use the DV-AVI Export/Share/Publish (only ~ 5% compression, at very good quality), and then Import those into a new "master" Project.

     

    For authoring to DVD-Video, one will rely on MPEG-2 DVD for the final AV file, which will be wrapped in the VOB container.

     

    One other option, for the combining of existing Projects is a Copy/Paste operation, BUT this cannot be accomplished directly. One will need to add a Clipboard Extender utility, like ClipMate, to the system. Then, one can Open Projct A, Select and Copy everything on its Timeline, Close, and Open Project B, position the CTI (Current Time Indicator/Playhead) where desired, and Paste. The regular system Clipboard cannot do this - only a Clipboard Extender can.

     

    For a one-time procedure, the Export/Share/Publish to DV-AVI, and then Import of that file, would be the easiest, requiring that nothing be bought and added to the system.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 25, 2013 4:06 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    I've been trying to work out how to combine two 1920x1080 projects in Premiere Elements without the loss in quality of exporting and then importing for quite some time. Bill's comments regarding a Clipboard Extender utility in his post dated 6 February 2013 is almost spot on. I downloaded a trial version of ClipMate but it didn't recognise the format of the clip. I persisted, and found a free program called Spartan Lite which works perfectly.

     

    I'm running Windows 7 and PE10. Spartan Lite allows me to copy the timeline in one project, open another project and paste the timeline into it.

     

    Just thought I'd share it.

     
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    Apr 25, 2013 9:23 AM   in reply to Steve Grisetti

    SG

     

    Just came across this thread. A flare got sent up for me when I read in your post (#3)

    "Copy and paste between projects definitely won't work in Premiere Elements"

    Might you revisit that comment and reconsider?

     

    I have a problem with that generalization. The program ClipMate has been doing that copy/paste between Premiere Elements projects flawlessly for Premiere Elements Windows 8.0/8.0.1, 9.0/9.0.1, and 10. Been there and done that. For Premiere Elements 11 and versions of Premiere Elements earlier than 8.0/8.0.1, there are problems in the copy/paste between Premiere Elements project as it relates to audio and/or transitions. Premiere Elements 11 and ClipMate have a different how to than all previous versions of Premiere Elements...can be detailed at an appropriate time upon request. Does work in version 11 Windows except for the audio and/or transitions aspects.

     

    But, I did find Paul Cutting (Aus) post (#12) in this thread interesting in that he claims to have found a Spartan Lite program that will do this copy/paste between Premiere Elements programs. Until now ClipMate was the only one that I knew of that seems up to the job (or most of it). I will give the Spartan Lite program a look.

     

    ATR

     
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    Apr 25, 2013 9:27 AM   in reply to Paul Cutting (Aus)

    Paul Cutting (Aus)

     

    Thanks for the information on Spartan Lite. Glad that worked for you. I will take a look at the how to for that and see if it works for me also.

     

    If you are using Premiere Elements 10 Windows, you should not be encountering any problems with the use of ClipMate for the copy/paste between projects. When and if you decide to revisit the ClipMate for this task, please let me know, and I will help you troubleshoot the problem if it still exists.

     

    But right now, it would appear that you are settled in with an alternative. That is good news.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 25, 2013 9:39 AM   in reply to Paul Cutting (Aus)

    Thank you for the rec. for Spartan Lite. I am not familiar with that program, and as has been pointed out in some other threads, it appears that ClipMate might have issues with PrE 11, it is good to hear when something works.

     

    Appreciated,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 20, 2013 1:20 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    Hi ATR,

    I am feeling particularly stupid this evening.

     

    I have downloaded ClipMate7 trial version with a view to copying one Premiere Elements 10 (Windows) project and pasting it into another Premiere Elements 10 (Windows) project. I did one project in two parts and now want to combine the two with as little loss in quality as possible. The first part is 30 minutes long and the second part is 20 minutes long so they are pretty large files using multiple tracks of music, naration, titles, video & stills. I have also edited in PE10 mostly with "Image control". I have keyframed my music to adjust the soundtracks where there is naration over the music. (My source video material comes from a Canon 7D and is 1080 X 1920 p 25fps H.264 and a SonyHandycam AVCHD). As ClipMate is a copy and paste function I assume that there will be no loss of quality? I am using Windows 7. Do you think it is possible to copy the 20 minute section onto the 30 minute section using ClipMate 7?.

     

    I cant figure out how to use ClipMate 7 though!

    I have a clipboard on my taskbar. If I click on it, it gives me a dialogue box that says: File, Edit,Tools, View, Help.

    I'm sure it is pretty straight forward but I cant figure out how to do it. For the Windows clipboard, I use "Control C" to copy and "Control V" to paste which seems to be the same in ClipMate but I dont know how to activate it.

    In post 14 you kindly offered to help Paul figure it out. I would be greatful if you could do the same for me.

    Kind regards and many thanks

    Linda Collison

     
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    Nov 20, 2013 1:37 PM   in reply to LindaColli

    LindaColli

     

    Thanks for asking me about ClipMate and Premiere Elements. I have no promotional interests in ClipMate. My interests in it are as they relate as a way to copy/paste insert between two Premiere Elements Windows projects.

     

    I have written a very detailed how to for ClipMate and various versions of Premiere Elements. Please check out my blog post for these details and then let me know if you have any further questions.

     

    Just be sure to follow step by step, and it should take you to success. But, note the tips especially around the final Paste Insert step.

     

    http://www.atr935.blogspot.com/2013/05/pe-clipmate-copypaste-between-p e.html

     

    Looking forward to your results. Glad for the opportunity to help.

     

    ATR

     
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    Nov 20, 2013 1:47 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    Thank you so much ATR. I so appreciate your help. I will report back as soon as I have done it.

    Again many thanks.

    Linda

     
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    Nov 20, 2013 5:34 PM   in reply to LindaColli

    Linda

     

    Thanks for giving the ClipMate Premiere Elements 10 Windows details a try.

     

    We will be watching for your results when you get the time.

     

    Please do not hesitate to ask if you need further clarification of the details.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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    Nov 24, 2013 8:52 AM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    Hi ATR,

    I followed your instructions but hit a snag early on.

    I opened up ClipMate from the icon on my taskbar at the bottom of my computer. (?)

    In "My clips" I had "Inbox" selected.

    I opened my Premiere Elements 10 source project.

    I selected the clips to be copied (Control A) (as well as just highlighting the seven tracks when this didnt work out the first time).

    Then I did Edit Menu/Copy on Premiere Elements and heard the squeek from ClipMate.

     

    At this point I got an error message at the bottom of ClipMate to say that the new clipboard data was ignored - no acceptable formats according to application profile.

    I continued notwithstanding in the hope that it would still work

     

    I brought up ClipMate, then Edit Menu/ Capture Special.

    I put a check mark in both "PE OS Clipboard Forrmat" and "PE AE Exchange". Then OK.

    I selected the top current entry and highlighted it in ClipMate.

    Back to PE Source Project. Saved and closed.

    Opened the new PE Project for past insert.

    Had time line indicator positioned correctly.

    Had both windows visible at same time.

    Highlighted top entry in CMate for pasting.

    In the new PE Project I clicked on the Edit Menu but the drop down menu would not drop down.

    I got the cursor doing the circle thing for some time then going away but no dropdown for paste insert.

    After three tries at Edit Menu, PE stopped working and closed.

    Also when I tried to click on the blank area on Video 1 where the timeline indicator was sitting I got no highlighted space.

     

    I guess they were serious about the "no acceptable formats"

    My source material is from a Canon 7D H.264 and a Sony Handycam AVCHD.

    My music is MP3 and M4a.

    In the edits on PE I used video stabiliser and image control quite a bit.

    I used a few video transitions and audio transitions.

    I used 4 audio tracks and 3 video tracks.

    The section that I want to paste is 18 minutes long.

    Kind regards

    Linda

     
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    Nov 24, 2013 9:36 PM   in reply to LindaColli

    Linda

     

    Thanks for the detailed update.

     

    Have you tried ClipMate and Premiere Elements with smaller samples to gauge its workflow or did you go forward for the grand project copy/paste insert.

     

    Also, that end step (the paste insert) can take some time to execute. If you went for a 18 minutes segment, a long wait time might be expected.

     

    So, try the basics with simple models to be sure you can get ClipMate to work. And, then factor in more and more.

     

    We will be looking for your progress in the morning.

     

    More later.

     

    ATR

     
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    Dec 1, 2013 2:53 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    Hi ATR,

    I have unexpectedly to go overseas until the end of January to help a friend. I ran out of time to pursue the joining of my two projects losslesslely so just published the shorter second half to AVCHD and re-imported the published version into the longer section A. It was fine for the purposes that I wanted it for. As it was only one generation of degradation I couldn't see the difference. When I am back I will re-investigate Clipmate. Thank you so much for your help. I am sorry that I ran out of time to finish this discussion now.

     

    If anybody would like to evaluate for themselves if there is degradation or not, I have uploaded my project on Antarctica to Linda Collison Youtube Homepage. The first half is the original project, and the bit added from 30.06 minutes to 47 minutes was first published/shared to AVCHD and then reimported into project A ie if there is degradation it should be in the second half. The evaluation would be to determine if the quality of the project deteriorates after 30.06 minutes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70TSKL3hchU

     

    All the best for the Christmas season.

    Kind regards

    Linda

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2014 2:21 PM   in reply to LindaColli

    Just as an aside to this discussion. Premiere Pro is able to use PE projects sees them as normal sequences, including any associated clips. It will also include most transitions and titles but may not recognize some of PE Movie graphics and any special effects that are not identical to that in Premiere Pro, that's about all.

    So, if you are lucky enough to know someone with Premiere Pro ( I have only tried this with CC, but would think it would work with most of the recent PP versions) they can import all of your various PE projects and put them together by nesting them in Premiere Pro and thus avoid any loss of quality whatsoever.

    You may even find this a  good opportunity to take Premiere Pro CC out for a 30 day trial and you may decide you like it enough to go that way in the future.

    Note: Very Important. In Windows you need to drag and drop the PE Project into the Prem Pro Project using Windows Explorer. You cannot import the Premiere Elements Proj file using Import or the Media Browser.

     
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    Mar 8, 2014 1:07 AM   in reply to ThePetal

    Thanks, The Petal. That is incredibly helpful. I recently bought Premiere Pro CS6 and would have tried to import rather than dragging and dropping.

    Kind regards

    Linda

     
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    Mar 8, 2014 7:05 AM   in reply to LindaColli

    Linda,

     

    If you are attempting to use a PrE Project (.PREL) in PrPro, there are two ways to get the .PREL into PrPro - directly Open the .PREL in PrPro, or if that does not work, create a New Project in PrPro, then Import the .PREL.

     

    Note:

     

    As stated, some aspects of the PrE Project might not work in PrPro, such as Instant Movie/Themes, 3rd party Effects, some PrE specific Effects, and 3rd party Transitions.

     

    Also, the .PREL into PrPro works best, when on has a version of PrE, that is close to the version of PrPro, such as a PrE 4.0 .PREL and PrPro CS 2. When the versions get too far apart, the Open, or Import will often not work.

     

    Some users have experienced issues with PrPro CC, that has been Updated to the latest version, which I believe is 7.2.1. Early versions of PrPro CC seem to handled the .PREL files far better than the Updated versions - not sure if it was the first, or the second PrPro CC Update that "broke things."

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 8, 2014 7:21 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Thanks Bill.

    Regards

    Linda

     
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    Mar 8, 2014 7:03 PM   in reply to LindaColli

    Thanks Bill, never thought of opening the project that way. I have PremProCC 7.2.1 and Premiere Elements 11 projects.

    Had a play with Prem Pro opening a project and noticed that opening with PPCC instead of drag and drop can open the project in a very strange looking workplace layout and I had to select a couple of workspaces and then finally the editing workspace to have the project look normal. Haven't had that problem when drag and dropping into an open Prem Pro project from the Windows/File Explorer window.

    Just thought I should mention that if it all looks rather weird, try a few different workspaces to see if you get a satisfactory result, or try the drag and drop method to see if that works better.

     
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    Mar 8, 2014 7:25 PM   in reply to ThePetal

    Petal,

     

    That you are Opening (or Importing) PrE 11 files into PrPro CC 7.2.1 is good news - even if there is weirdness. I was reading reports that PrPro CC 7.2.1 had issues PREL Project files.

     

    Please keep us informed on whether Workspace changes help, as we get several PrE to PrPro questions per year.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Hunt

     
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