Skip navigation
Currently Being Moderated

How to use the crop tool without losing pixels?

Feb 9, 2013 10:49 AM

5616x3774   /   72 res is what CS5 says my Canon 5d2 large jpeg is out of camera.

 

Can I use the crop too to make a 20"x24" image and keep all those or most of those pixels?

 

Do I leave the resolution box blank?

 

The lab I send the file to for the print, says they want 300 res files (just to complicate thing a bit more)

 

Thanks!

 
Replies 1 2 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 10:56 AM   in reply to kevin4545

    Fiddle with it in Image/image size.  Have the resample box checked and unchecked and watch the figures change as you change either dimension or resolution.

     

    Remember if you resample it changes all the pixels and theoritcally can affect sharpness.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 11:22 AM   in reply to kevin4545

    My suggestion is the only way to see interrelationship between dimension & resolution.  THe crop tool has to obey the same laws.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 11:26 AM   in reply to kevin4545

    The lab says they want a 300 ppi image. Did you try 24", 20" and 300 ppi in the fields of the Crop Tool and find the result to be unsatisfactory? If so, then in what way was the result unsatisfactory?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 12:06 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    Can I use the crop too to make a 20"x24" image and keep all those or most of those pixels?

    No. Your aspect ratio is about 2:3

    You could make a 20" x 30" print, but to go 20" x 24" you'll have to make cropping choices.

     

    The lab I send the file to for the print, says they want 300 res files

    Your file will fall short of that (about 190 PPI without resample). So you will have to upsample (add pixels) if you want it to be 300 ppi and crop (subtract pixels! ) if you want a 20" x 24" print.

     

    As stated above, both can be done in one swell foop with the Crop Tool set to 20" x 24" at 300 ppi

     

    ...the crop tool is not that intuitive

    Just wait until you ugrade to CS6!

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • JJMack
    5,995 posts
    Jan 9, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 12:08 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    kevin4545 wrote:

     

    5616x3774   /   72 res is what CS5 says my Canon 5d2 large jpeg is out of camera.

     

    Can I use the crop too to make a 20"x24" image and keep all those or most of those pixels?

    5616x3774 pixels means your image has a 3:2.  If you use Image Size un-check RESAMPLE and set the print width to 24" you will see the Photoshop will set the height to 16.128" and the print resolution to 234DPI.

     

    20" x 24" is a 5:6 aspect ration.  If you want to print your image 20"x24" you need to Crop you image or distort your image to a 5:6 Aspect ratio. When you crop you discard some pixel.  Since 3:2 is a wider aspect ratio the 6:5 this means some pixels must be removed from the image width. You will retain the images 3774 pixel height but the width will be reduces to 4529 pixels.  So you will lose at least 1087x3774 pixel a total of 4,102,338 so from your 21,194,784 image you lose 4.1Mpixels wind up with a 17.1Mpixel image that will print 24"x20" at 188.7DPI

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • JJMack
    5,995 posts
    Jan 9, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 1:26 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    To tell the truth I don't use the crop tool. I use the marquee tool, image crop and image size.  If you use the crop tool and fill in a resolution field in the crop tool the crop tool does all three operation including resampling the resulting crop to the resolution you entered. Adobe has also re-implemented the crop tool in CS6 which has many up in arms. Didn't bother me at all.

     

    IMO if you use the crop tool its best to leave the resolution field empty. That way the crop will  not be resample.  You can enter width 24 height 20 or width 6 height 5 there actually the same aspect ratio as is 12:10

     

    After you do the crop you can use Image Size. In the dialog un-check resample set the print width to 24. You will see Photoshop set the height to 20 and set the DPI to some value. If the DPI value fall below what you want check resample set in the resolution you want and the interpolation method to use then click OK.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 1:20 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    kevin4545 wrote:

     

    But do I need to put 300 in the res field.  Does the print lab really need that to be done?

     

    The lab specifically asked for 300 ppi. Either do it or, if you think they don't need it or they should have specified something else (72 ppi, for example, as you seem to suspect), then contact the lab and remove doubt before proceeding.

     

     

    What if I just left it blank or put in 72 which is what the Canon file is out of camera? Would that create a better final image? or not?

     

    That would produce an image with fewer than 1/16th of the number of pixels in a 300 ppi image of the same physical size and look extremely blocky when printed, so I don't think it would create a better image.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 2:37 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    The short answer is that there is simply no one number that works for everyone.

     

    This is basic resolution and ratio mechanics.  Just something you and everyone else have to deal with. 

     

    I suggest you set your image size without resampling, then crop to the proper ratio.  Assuming you're using a modern camera and not making big prints your resolution will likely be more than 300 ppi, which is noticeable (I found I could spot differences up to about 600 ppi).

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • JJMack
    5,995 posts
    Jan 9, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 2:43 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    72 is just a setting.  I shoot Canon 20D 1D2 and 1D4 RAW and have ACR convert the raw file into RGB image at the Adobe default setting 240 DPI and that setting can be changed in ACR and be remembered by ACR.  I do not know what DPI canon cameras set into the jpeg files they write.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 3:20 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    What does the ppi matter anyway, until you turn the thing into a work product?

     

    Learn to think in pixels first and foremost, then set the inches when you print.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 3:31 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    The printing lab specified Kevin's image file must be at 300 ppi. That's the reason I thought the ppi is important.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 4:05 PM   in reply to conroy

    I was speaking more to the question about why Canon doesn't set the ppi in the captured image.

     

    But what are the chances the lab may have said ''300 or higher''?

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 4:42 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    "The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one," he said.

    "The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one - but still they

    come!"

     

    Jeff Wayne - The War of the Worlds Soundtrack

     

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 5:49 PM   in reply to conroy

    Love that album.

     

    As I'm about to take a walk, the line ''...but oh, the sweetness of the air'' just came to mind.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 7:31 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    See post #1.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2013 7:44 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    kevin4545 wrote:

     

    Leave resolution blank, but wont the tool then resample the image?

     

     

    Try it and see !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • JJMack
    5,995 posts
    Jan 9, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 10, 2013 5:31 AM   in reply to kevin4545

    kevin4545 wrote:

     

    But what do you mean set without resampling? the easist method is to put 20 and 24 in the crop tools fields. Leave resolution blank, but wont the tool then resample the image?

    No it will not resample. Crop will set the DPI so the cropped image will print 20x24.  

     

    Try using menu Image Size with Resample NOT Checked.

     

    You will see the top Pixel section is grayed out and can not be changed. Pixels will not be changed.

     

    In the center print size section you will see the the width, height and Resolution are all linked they are not independent. Change one and the other two will be change. If you change 20 to 10  you will see 24 be changed to 12 and see the DPI resolution increase.  Change the DPI to some value you will see both the width and hight change in size and retait the 5:6 aspect ratio.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 10, 2013 11:43 AM   in reply to kevin4545

    I think what JJ is saying is you first have to set those options in Image/image size for it to apply to crop tool.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 10, 2013 12:46 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    If you go back to reply #4 and do what it says then you'll get a 24" x 20" @ 300 ppi result, as you said is required for the printing lab. As far as I see, you never even tried that and a further 22 posts have got you no closer to a result.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • JJMack
    5,995 posts
    Jan 9, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 10, 2013 3:33 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    No. When you leave the crop tools  Resolution field empty the crop tool will not resample the remaining pixels it will just set the DPI. Like image size does when resample is not checked and you set a size. In other words it calculates what the dpi has to be for the number of pixel you have to print the size set.

     

    If you need 300 dpi the Crop tool can resample the pixels.  First Make sure you set your Photoshop Interpolation defaults to  the method you want used.  As I wrote I don't use the crop tool. If I did I would leave the resolution field empty.  If I needed the crop resampled I would do it with Image size where I have more control over how its done.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 10, 2013 3:45 PM   in reply to conroy

    Kevin, I agree with Conroy - go back and do exactly what he says in post 4.  You will get a cropping and resampling that will leave you with a 24 x 20 inch print at 300ppi no matter what size it starts out.  Done.  Problem solved.  Life will be good.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • JJMack
    5,995 posts
    Jan 9, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2013 5:35 AM   in reply to kevin4545

    Before you set 300 dpi in the resolution field check your userid Photoshop Preferences default interpolation preference setting.  Its best to set this to Bicubic.  Bicubic IMO is the best general purpose interpolation method.  If you update to CS6 this is very important for Adobe added a new interpolation method to CS6 and made it its Default setting. The new Bicubic Automatic I feel use Bicubic Smoother if your up sizing and Bicubic Sharper if your down sizing.   If your image has been sharpened and its resize using Bicubic Sharper the results may well not be acceptable.  Also if Bicubic Automatic is the default setting some Photoshop Scripts will fail. For Adobe did not update Photoshop Scripting and script that retrieve the interpolation setting will fail with an internal Photoshop error.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2013 6:42 AM   in reply to JJMack

    Good points, JJ.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2013 7:55 AM   in reply to JJMack

    Yes, I think most folks finally figure out that the default "Automatic" resampling method produces ugly results a lot of the time, and that good old Bicubic is better.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • JJMack
    5,995 posts
    Jan 9, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2013 8:39 AM   in reply to kevin4545

    That is what Automatic does. However how well an interpolation method works depends on the image contents.  The method Bicubic Sharper was designed to sharpen images as it being reduced in pixel size.  And it work well on image file strait from most cameras for they have AA filters and produce relatively soft images.  If these image are sharpened well by the user using ACR or USM and then the Sharpened image is down sized using Bicubic Sharper the results often have the jaggies.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 13, 2013 2:48 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    The short side of the original is 3774. If that were spread over 20 inches then the res would be 188.7 ppi. If spread over 24" then 157.25 ppi. You'll be "upresing" to get to 300 ppi for the lab, which requires Photoshop to increase the pixel count in this case.

     

    I recommend you set the resampling to plain vanilla Bicubic. Not Automatic, Sharper or Smoother. (Automatic uses Smoother when increasing the pixel count and Sharper when decreasing the pixel count.) Then you can experiment with sharpening filters under your control.

     

    The key to learning and understanding Photoshop is experimentation and observation.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • JJMack
    5,995 posts
    Jan 9, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 13, 2013 7:54 PM   in reply to kevin4545

    read append 30 again

     

    I do not normally crop.  You can use a clipping mask instead.  What a clipping mask.  An easy one to understand is canvas size.  Do this open a new document 20" x 24" at 300DPI.  Next use menu Image Place and select your image file. Use the Place Transform to position and resize your image over the canvas. Hold the Shift key down when transforming the size and use a corner handle while resizing so the Image Aspect Ratio is maintained and does not distort.  This way you have your images full pixels in a smart object layer.  you can Transform you image over and over again. Every composition over the canvas is a virtual 20" x 24" 300DPI crop. Yet no cropping is done and you can tweak the virtual crop's composition.

     
    |
    Mark as:
1 2 Previous Next
Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points