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haywardart
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Can premiere edit in 8k format

Feb 11, 2013 4:07 PM

Tags: #premiere

Can Premiere edit in 8k and if so what are the computer requirements to do so and file size per minute of video

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2013 5:06 PM   in reply to haywardart

    The Help file says frame sizes are limited to 16 megapixels.  8K video would exceed that by quite a bit.

     
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    Feb 14, 2013 6:47 PM   in reply to haywardart

    Is there any support anywhere for 8K video? Has there been any format or container with an 8k variation?

     
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    Feb 15, 2013 9:57 AM   in reply to wfmc staffer

    The largest I've seen in actual production is 5K from the RED Epic.  (And even that get's scaled down to 4K for theatrical release.)

     
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    Feb 15, 2013 11:41 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I knew that question would come up sooner or later. My boss asked me a couple of weeks ago why I would shoot 1080p when obviously I should be shooting 8k to go with the new TVs being shown at C.E.S.

     

    I tried to explain until I realized he was only pretending to be interested. I suppose he should get points for trying, even though it was probably an attempt at an insult of sorts. He uses sarcasm quite a bit, even though he knows I take things literally. Really pisses me off.

     

    So let's get this out there.

     

    Yes, you can shoot and edit 4K. Or even 5K. But how do you show it to anyone? By the time you put it on a Blu-Ray it is down to 1080p. If you have access to monster monitors, I suppose you could play it that way. But that means bringing the customers to you and not you to the customers.

     

    No, you can't edit 8K in Premiere Pro. When you are actually ready for that, I believe that Premiere Pro will be ready. Or shortly thereafter. Since the chances that you have a camera capable of 8K are slimmer than a red ... well, let's  just say they are quite slim - you will probably need 8K animation before you need 8K video. So use After Effects.

     

    PC requirements will be some pretty darned fast RAID configuration and every dollar you can beg borrow or steal for fast processors and new graphics cards. At least at first. Let's just pray that they never fully repeal Moore's Law.

     
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    Feb 16, 2013 3:06 AM   in reply to wfmc staffer

    The new H.265 High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) standard supports ultra-HD 8k frames (4320p); but stage-1 approval has only just been announced, so nothing commercially-available supports H.265 yet. Some of the ultra-HD displays being demonstrated at CES were using prototype H.265 hardware, and it's guaranteed to become the industry standard for 4k+ delivery and playback in years to come, just as H.264 is today. There's also a JPEG2000 pure-hardware codec called IPX-JPUHD which supports 4k and 8k frames - that's been around for a while and was used in many of the early proof-of-concept demos.

     

    Capturing 8k is more of an issue, as H.265 is an intensive algorithm with data rates far beyond most of the media cards in use today. Sony's new XAVC codec in the F5-series bodies is a custom extension of H.264  - it writes 4k now and is planned to support 8k capture later this year. Right now you can work with 4k XAVC footage in Premiere Pro CS6 with a plugin, but 8k is off the table until Adobe increase the maximum resolution of a sequence. Of course that will happen evenutally as the industry is going to insist on it; but nobody's going to give you a date.

     

     

    wfmc staffer wrote:

     

    Has there been any format or container with an 8k variation?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 16, 2013 4:09 AM   in reply to Dave Merchant

    If you need to edit 8K footage for special screening installations like exhibitions or theme parks you can use a compositing app like After Effects...

     

    But if you plan a highend project like this - far beyond IMAX and all other established standards - you probably have your own technical consultants team to take care of such quenstions ;-)

     

    4K 60p editing works in Premiere - but even the most advanst 4K D-Cinema servers & projectors from Christie Digital (CP4230) weren't able to play back this footage at full 60p some month ago...

     
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    Feb 16, 2013 7:45 AM   in reply to Steven L. Gotz

    Yes, the prototype monitors shown at CES made the news, and in a big way. They MAY become a standard at some point, but I really expect them to go the way of 3D, a commercial "flash in the pan." Even after about 5 years from commercial introduction, 3D has not taken off with the consumers. The prices of the 3D TV's and BD decks have fallen dramatically, but the consumers are not snapping them up. Sony's projections for sale of 3D titles has been way, way off. All might change at some point in the future, but that future does not seem to be now.

     

    I have two friends in the "business," at different levels, and each year, I ask them what at CES really wowed you, and got you to rethink what you either distribute (one friend), or offer in installations for your clients (other friend)? When 3D was presented, both said, "I'll just wait and see." At this date, some years later, neither has done much with 3D, as there is not a deamand for it - yet. They both had the same response regarding 8K - "we'll see." Both were actually much more excited when universal remote control units went RF from IR, and both have made good $ with those. Hardly a golly, gee-whiz product, with zero coverage on the Nightly National News programs, but products that DO move off the shelves.

     

    For 8K, I must ask, do we really want to see Larry King in 8K on our 240" screens?

     

    Hunt

     
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    Feb 16, 2013 7:57 AM   in reply to haywardart

    Premiere Pro's sequence size limitations are 10k x 8k. The biggest limitation will be your hardware.

     
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    Feb 16, 2013 8:32 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Larry King? No.

     

    However, I have watched many a sci-fi show where the entire wall was a video monitor. I could be happy with that arrangement, I think.

     

    How about Jaime King, or Regina King?

     

    I was one of the very first around here to shoot 1080i HDV. At the time I got my camera in December 2004, there was no way to edit the video, if I remember correctly. Weeks later, Cineform came out with a solution, then Adobe adopted that solution in a later release of Premiere Pro. But I was shooting before any solution existed for the public in general.

     

    My guess is that Cineform, or some other company, will build the bridge until Premiere Pro catches up to editing 8K, or perhaps Adobe will have a enough advance notice that Premiere Pro will be ready and waiting for us.

     

    Edit: I see that Steve already came back with the answer. I guess Premiere Pro is ready when we are.

     
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    Feb 16, 2013 12:51 PM   in reply to Steven L. Gotz

    Yes, probably time to call up Eric, or Scott at ADK and get them started on a "killer" machine...

     

    And good information Steve - thank you.

     

    Hunt

     

    PS - I do like your choices of "Kings," better than my example.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 16, 2013 12:56 PM   in reply to SteveHoeg

    Premiere Pro's sequence size limitations are 10k x 8k.

     

    Curious.  Why then did the help file specify a 16 MP limit?  Does it need updating?

     
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    Apr 1, 2013 11:03 AM   in reply to haywardart

    Not sure why people are saying no,  the short answer is yes.

     

    I just finished a 90min 360 degree dome project (multiple projectors) that was created in both AE and Premiere.   8K.  All content was custom created, no shot video.

     

    The caveat was that at times, it was painful with certain affects and multiple layers.

     

    I switched between two main workstations that were configured as follows:

     

    work01

    2 x Xeon 5690 processors (air cooled)

    48gig ram

    2 x Nvidia Quadro 4000

    1 x 240gig SSD boot

    2 x 480gig SSD Data (Striped-Raid0) (onboard)

    4 x 21" monitors

     

    Work02

    1 x intel I7-3930  Watercooled-O.C.'d to 4.2ghz (stable)

    64gig ram

    2 x Nvidia Geforce 670

    1 x 240gig SSD boot

    8 x 2TB (hitatchi) drives Raid 5

    LSI 8888ELP raid card

    1 x 30", 2 x 21" monitors

     

    I tried to work locally as much as possible, at times data was stored/transfered/worked from a 40tb server array.

     

    File format was a mix of png, tga and jpg sequences.  

     

    While there are media servers capable of 8k (and higher) playback, we opted to split the final content in to multiple streams of 1920x1080.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 1, 2013 7:27 PM   in reply to haywardart

    Not sure why you got that excessive quoting, but would guess that it is due to responding via an e-mail client, and maybe from a phone. Maybe a MOD will clean that up a bit?

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 16, 2013 3:06 AM   in reply to Lucetius01

    I have a display at work that uses four projectors on an edge-blended display that is 7104 by 1080.  I was looking to make a short comp using the single display, but ran into issues exporting and ended up finding this thread.  How do you sync your four pieces to end up looking like a single projection?

     

    It's a UNIX server so I can address each of the individual displays as 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 or the edge-blended display is :1.0.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 16, 2013 5:48 AM   in reply to haywardart

    You can start saving now for a machine with the following minimum specs:

     

    • Two Xeon E5-4687W CPU's @ 3.4 GHz (absolute bare minimum)
    • 256 GB memory @ 2400
    • 2 x GTX Titan cards (bare minimum)
    • Raid array with at least 3.5 GB/s sustained transfer rates
    • Capable of overclocking to around 4.5 GHz
    • Lots of backup space (think more than 50 TB for small projects)

     

    That is all for now. Let me know when you find something like that.

     

    Of course you need a camera with 8K resolution, that uses a bandwidth of around 24 Gbps for recording. I guess they don't come cheap.

     
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