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mattplondon
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Why does implementing Indesign cs6 master page affect a whole spread, rather than a single page?

Feb 15, 2013 3:33 AM

Tags: #master #spread #page

When i drag, say, a right-hand master page onto the right-hand page of my working spread, it adds the master page to the WHOLE spread, rather than just the right hand page.

 

On cs3 it worked fine, but on cs6 it doesnt.

 

 

 

So, dragging the right-hand master page to a right-hand working page, correctly affects the right-hand working page, BUT it also implements the left-hand page from the master page spread onto the left hand page of the working spread.

 

Is there a way around this, other than creating single page master pages?

 

Thanks in advance.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 4:01 AM   in reply to mattplondon

    Maybe you're not doing it right. Drag the right hand master spread to a right hand working spread, don't release mouse until you see black box around the spead icon. Then release the mouse and see it is getting applied.

     
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    Feb 15, 2013 4:43 AM   in reply to mattplondon

    I think I've seen this reported as a bug before. Are you patched to 8.0.1?

     

    Is the master assigned to your left page shown as the the same, or different from the one assigned to the right inthe Pages panel? My recollection is that the master is not reassigned, but that elements from the left master page are added incorrectly, and it may have to do with whether they touch the spine, but I'm foggy on this one.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 9:10 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Hi Peter,

    I think that here is rally a problem. I was running into exactly the same issue this week. And as far as you know I have always the latest builds installed. I did not have enough time up to now to test around what causes this problem. I have 2 different master pages with running headers. The only difference is the text variable which is used in the running headers. No object touches the spine. I could not get a different master page applied on the left and to the right page. Because the project was urgent I ended up doing it manually.

    I will seperate the problem and build up a file with only this problem then I will file it as a bug.

    Willi Adelberger

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2013 3:02 PM   in reply to Willi Adelberger

    I think Uwe Laubender has done a lot of work on this. I also think it only happens when you assign a new right-side master.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 19, 2013 4:49 AM   in reply to mattplondon

    You'd have to search here on the forum.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 19, 2013 5:41 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    I had to search myself ;-)

    The following postings have to do with unexpected behavior of masterpage items or a new stacking order of page items after removing a page. Though nothing with applying a master page in a live CS6 document…

     


    Was it around issues with IDML from legacy InDesign files opened in CS6?

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4638812#4638812

     

     

    Or the issues that can arrise, if you simply swap two pages?

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4924879#4924879

     

     

    Or wrong stacking of page items on consecutive pages after removing page one of your document?

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4525788#4525788

     

     

    I'm in a hurry, so there is no great help from me right now…

     

    Uwe

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 19, 2014 8:09 PM   in reply to Laubender

    Are there any updates on the issue? I'm having the same problem (CS6 8.0.1).

    It seems to be happening when objects on both pages touch the spine of the spread (e.g. for single colored pages serving as content dividers).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2014 3:28 AM   in reply to aax

    Don't know that it solves the issue, but there is the 8.0.2 update...

     
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    Feb 20, 2014 5:23 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Yeah, I tried installing it today, but the problem is still there.

     
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    Feb 20, 2014 3:20 PM   in reply to aax

    Hmm, after some research it seems that the same bug goes back to at least CS2. Can somebody check if it's fixed in CC?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2014 5:08 PM   in reply to mattplondon

    Stop dragging, use Apply Master to Pages from the Page panel fly-out menu instead,

    Or: select only the righthand page and with that page selected click on the wanted Master page in the upper half of your Pages panel while holding down the Alt key.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2014 5:34 PM   in reply to F van der Geest

    "Apply Master to Pages" can only apply a whole spread, so that doesn't work. But oddly enough, selecting a right-hand page of a document spread and either Alt-clicking or even dragging the right-hand page of a master spread applies it only to the right-hand page (doesn't work for left-hand pages, though).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2014 4:01 AM   in reply to aax

    >"Apply Master to Pages" can only apply a whole spread, so that doesn't work

     

    It works fine, no problem: I can apply Maser A to page 2 and Master  B to page 3 etc. without any problem throuh the flyout menu and dialog. You must be doing something wrong...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 24, 2014 5:19 PM   in reply to F van der Geest

    You're right.

    I tried it only with a left-hand page number and it applied the contents of the right-hand page also (but marked only left page of the spread in the pages panel with master's name, so it's the same bug).

     

    When I try to "Apply Master..." to a right-hand page number, it does apply just the contents of the right-hand page of the master spread. All in all, "Apply Master to Pages" works exactly the same as dragging-and-dropping or Alt-clicking.

     

    How do I search the bug reports (I'm new here)? I'd like to check if there's some feedback from Adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 24, 2014 9:55 PM   in reply to aax

    @aax – here is the bug-report/feature wishform:

     

    https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

     

    You'll get no feedback. So prepare yourself well and provide some test cases downloadable eg. at dropbox or your own website.

     

    Uwe

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2014 9:43 AM   in reply to aax

    There is NO bug here, it works fine. If it does not work for you, you ARE doing something wrong.

    In the screenmovie attached you see me doing it: I have an A Master (red pages) and a B Master (blue pages). I can apply them to only the right page or only the left page. In the movie I first ALT-click on the desired Masterpage, left or right Page from that Master. In the end you see me using Apply Master to Page and targetting only one page. (The version is Dutch but that makes no difference).

    So really, NO Bug but some user error on your side.

     

     

     

    ..

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2014 10:01 AM   in reply to F van der Geest

    Which version are you using? Judging by the dark-grey background it's CC.

    Are both of your frames touching the spine on a master page (snapping to it)?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2014 10:05 AM   in reply to aax

    CC or CS6, it makes NO difference. Simple double sided pages.

     
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    Feb 25, 2014 10:10 AM   in reply to F van der Geest

    Would you send me a file with those masters to try it? That way we'll know for sure if I'm doing it wrong.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2014 11:22 AM   in reply to aax

    Be aware of the following: on Master A I drew TWO SEPERATE frames: one on the left and one on the right page of the Master. They touch eachother on the spine! Would I have drawn ONE frame starting on the left page that extends both pages I would run into trouble as the box 'bleeds' of the left page to the right page! Applying the Master to a left page would bleed onto the right page in my document. On Master page B there are also two seperate frames on each Master, left and right.

     
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    Feb 25, 2014 11:29 AM   in reply to F van der Geest

    That's exactly how I did it – two separate frames, both touching the spine.

    Will you send the file?

     
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    Feb 25, 2014 1:11 PM   in reply to aax

    I Just send you a private message.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2014 2:34 PM   in reply to aax

    you may have stumbled on something here, because in remaking the document in CS6 I came across the same weird behaviour!

    In CC things work as described.

    More strangely: when I save the CC document as idml, open that in CS6 then CS6 works fine!

    Anyway: you are not crazy, something sometimes gets broken it seems in CS6…  Now for the why… Who knows!

    The documentI send you privatly started its life in CC and then was saved down as CS6. Try applying Masters as described, this should work, but why CS6 fails when a document is created in that version…

    Isn’t it good to know you are not crazy?  ;-)

    I apologize, not your fault it seems at all!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2014 2:54 PM   in reply to F van der Geest

    Holy cow! The plot thickens: I treid again starting in InDesign CS6: this time it SEEMED to work also correctly in a new document created in CS6.

    That started me thinking: why, o why, does it not work all the time in CS6?

    I can not find an answer to that question - yet - but maybe, maybe sometimes a frame is not exactly pinned on the spine?

    No that was not it. Then I realized I copied over the frames from the documen that worked to the Masters Pages of the newly created document. Now when I create a new CS6 document and draw new frames on the Master Pages things again DID not work as you described!

    Something is rotten here, but only it seemed in CS6.

     

    Then I repeated my steps in a new documen, but now drawing the frames as Unassigned, the one without the cross in it.

    And I'll be dam...!  Now things worked FINE again and as expected.

     

    So I went back to the Master pages of each document and changed the content of all frames to Unassigned. But no: the documents that failed still failed to work oke....

     

    So I quit CS6 and restared CS6 again with a fresh new document. This time starting with unassigned frames. And it worked now from the start!

     

    So indeed: there is something broken here!

     

    I'll file a bug!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2014 3:11 PM   in reply to F van der Geest

    After trying again and again, same document setup I can only conclude: it seems a hit or miss thing!

    What I did find out is that if frames on a Master touch the spine in any way (just touching it not bleeding into it) you have a 50/50 percent change of things going wrong.

     

    If you use frames that are not close to the spine it will work as advertized however.

     

    Goes for CC and CS6.

    I've reported this just now so wait and see...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2014 3:32 PM   in reply to F van der Geest

    Well, I imported one of your master spreads into my file as a workaround to my problem.

     

    Is there a list of existing bug reports somwhere, or are they closed and just use the Bug Report Form (Peter Spier said in post #2 he saw it reported as a bug)?

    In other words, what to do next to get it fixed?

     

     

    EDIT: You can disregard the question, I was writing the post while you posted your last message.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2014 9:20 PM   in reply to F van der Geest

    F van der Geest schrieb:

     

    After trying again and again, same document setup I can only conclude: it seems a hit or miss thing!

    What I did find out is that if frames on a Master touch the spine in any way (just touching it not bleeding into it) you have a 50/50 percent change of things going wrong.

     

    If you use frames that are not close to the spine it will work as advertized however.

     

    Goes for CC and CS6.

    I've reported this just now so wait and see...

    I think this is caused by rounded values, more often happening with non-inch values than with inch system (inch, P, pt). So it is the exact value of the frame slightly overlapping with the spine, but the visible value exactly the same. It is happening with all programs, mainly with InDesign and Illustrator. The solution I do, is on the master page adjust the final value with 0.001 or 0.002 mm. Either shorten an element away from the spine or move it away. This is not visible on print (nor on screen) in the output, but helps to run into rounding problems, what I suppose that this is the problem here. And Yes, as you see, it happens here in the metric system often. On the master I divide normally all element, even if there are images. On the regular pages never, there is not hanging problem due to rounding numbers.

     
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    Feb 26, 2014 9:07 AM   in reply to Willi Adelberger

    Interesting. Something that always intrigued me is how exactly does ID save different units. Is there a native unit that all others are converted to after input, or does it saves every value in its original input unit?

    Also, is there a specific reason why it uses 3 decimal places instead of, for example, 2 or 4, or even more?

     
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    Feb 26, 2014 10:03 AM   in reply to aax

    As far as I know the native unit are dtp points, 72 dtp point are 1 inch. I think it calulates 3 or 4 decimal points, but some others should know it better.

     
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    Feb 26, 2014 2:50 PM   in reply to Willi Adelberger

    It's actually to 10 decimal points.

     
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    Feb 27, 2014 12:27 AM   in reply to aax

    @aax – the problem is when using page sizes you'll hardly get an exact value for width and height in mm or other units.

     

    This small script when executed from the ESTK (ExtendScript Toolkit) is writing the bounds of the first page of the active InDesign file to the JavaScript Console:

     

    $.writeln(app.activeDocument.pages[0].bounds);
    

     

    In case of an A4 document (used "A4" in page setup, in mm "A4" should be exactly 210 x 297 mm) the result values are:

     

    0,0,296.999999999461,209.999999999936

     

    The width is too small: 6.40003605667516e-11

    The height is too small: 5.38999955779218e-10

     

    ( y1, x1, y2, x2 where zero is the upper left corner of the page )

     

    in mm.

     

    Even if you make a custom preset typing in 210 x 297 mm the result will be not an exact value in mm, though it will be more precise doing so:

     

    0,0,297,209.999999999936

     

    The width is too small: 6.40003605667516e-11

     

    So, if you make a new rectangle in the UI with 297x210 mm positioned at the zero point in the upper left corner of your page, a tiny fraction of the rectangle will overlap to the right and to the bottom.

     

    This rectangle will not be perfect either, but very, very close,  its meassurements are more precise than the page bounds.

    Here the values for a 210 x 297 mm rectangle drawn in the UI and positioned at x/y 10,10 from the upper left zero point:

     

    9.99999999999999,9.99999999999997,307,220

     

    If I then move the rectangle to the zero point programmatically, the new values are:

     

    0,0,297,210

     

    To move the selected object to the zero point use this line of code:

     

    app.selection[0].move([0,0]);
    

     

    To get these values I selected the rectangle and used the following line of code to get its dimensions written to the JavaScript Console of the ESTK:

     

    $.writeln(app.selection[0].geometricBounds);
    

     

     

    Let's do some other page sizes, let's say 100 x 100 mm, how will the bounds be?

     

     

    Result is:

    0,0,100,100

     

    Exact values!

     

    And how is the outcome for a rectangle drawn on the page dimensioned 100 x 100 mm and positioned at the upper-left corner?
    0,0,100,100

     

    Exact values! Then no overlap will happen!

     

    So, sometimes it will work, depending on the individual size of a page, sometimes not.

    And sometimes a rectangle sized after page size will overlap the spine, sometimes not…

     

    Uwe

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 27, 2014 8:45 AM   in reply to Laubender

    I get what you're saying, although I can't condone it. Not because I'm OCD or anything like that, but because it shouldn't be a problem keeping track of precise measurements or saving the user-input measurements exactly as they are. I, as a user, shouldn't be forced to deal with astronomical tolerances in order to make something work.

     

    But that aside, another problem is that I used ID's snap-to-guide function to draw those rectangles, so they should inherit the same numerical values from the existing objects, as opposed to  the case where I would input the desired (but obviously not precise enough) frame dimensions.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 27, 2014 10:03 AM   in reply to aax

    @aax – I just presented the possible cause for the bug.
    No doubt, it is a bug! Here I'm  with you.

     

    For a workaround, you can read what Willi already said: just make the frames a tiny bit smaller (sigh!)…

     

    For the issue with the guides:

    do you refer to the margin guides or guides you pulled out from the rulers?

     

    Uwe

     
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    Feb 27, 2014 10:14 AM   in reply to Laubender

    Actually, I meant that I used the snap function to drag and size a frame to spine on one side, and bleeds on the other three sides. So the frame should have the same values that those objects have.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 1, 2014 11:43 AM   in reply to mattplondon

    I just noticed that. I have a cyan block with an embedded magenta circle on the right master page. If the embedded object boundary go over the left master page, even if the container block isnt, InDesign consider this embedded object as a left master page object.

     

    This does not occurs this if i use an image instead of an object.

    Screen shot 2014-03-01 at 2.01.22 PM.png

    Screen shot 2014-03-01 at 1.58.07 PM.png

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 1, 2014 12:29 PM   in reply to BenCloutier

    I tested it here but I don't get your result. It is fine here. Which version do you use? Did you update all available patches for your version? Maybe that this bug has been repaired.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 1, 2014 11:42 PM   in reply to BenCloutier

    @Benc-Academie – I can confirm your problem!
    German InDesign CS6 v8.0.2 on OSX 10.7.5.

     

    @Willi – here my costruction details:

     

    Master spread A is applied to master spread B by dragging A to B.

    Then the blue rectangle on the right page on master spread B is removed.


    Then master page B is applied to page 5 by dragging the left page of B to page 5.

    //EDIT: Then master page B is applied to page 4 by dragging the left page of B to page 4

     

    And here is the bug:

    The magenta circle is missing in the blue rectangle.

    Something is really foul here…

     

    You can download the files from my dropbox:

     

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/41aq6bskyilundh/MasterPageProblems_CS6_V8.0. 2.zip

     

    MasterPageProblems_CS6_V8.0.2.zip

     

        BeforeDragging_MasterPageProblems_CS6_v8.0.2.idml

        BeforeDragging_MasterPageProblems_CS6_v8.0.2.indd

     

        AfterDragging_MasterPageProblems_CS6_v8.0.2.idml

        AfterDragging_MasterPageProblems_CS6_v8.0.2.indd

     

    Uwe

     

    Message was edited by: Laubender

     
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