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AE CS6 not telling correct framerate

Mar 8, 2013 2:06 AM

I have footage from my GoPro 3 imported into AE CS6 (PC)...

It is 720p (1280 x720) shot at what GoPro calls 120 fps.

Windows Explorer says its 119 fps in the Properties panel...

AE says its 59.94......

What gives?

Also, is there any way to see the fps and other video properties in Bridge, or does video not track exif data like that--or date, time, etc?

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2013 5:46 AM   in reply to AudoWarp

    Good morning Audo,

     

    It never hurts to post a screen shot with your question and only takes 7 seconds.

     

    Was the previous composition you imported shot at 59.94?

     

    Did you fail to adjust that setting in the New Composition dialog box when you imported it?

     

    matt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2013 6:06 AM   in reply to AudoWarp

    After Effects has a maximum frame rate of 99 fps. If AE interpreted your frame rate as 120 and you played back the footage at 120 then you would have normal speed footage. In every case I've encountered in more than 40 years behind a movie camera the only reason to shoot at 120 fps is to get slow motion footage. To  do that you set the playback speed of your footage.

     

    I have a GoPro3 Black and I've shot a bunch of footage at 120 fps. I usually interpret the footage as 29.97 or 23.976 fps and put the footage in a comp that matches this frame rate. That way I get every frame playing back and motion that's much slower than normal. That's the whole reason I shot at 120 in the first place.

     

    I've never opened GoPro footage on a Windows machine but maybe 119 FPS is the maximum frame rate your system is capable of playing back. My Mac reports the GoPro footage as 120fps but on the older Mac it only plays back at about 80 in the QuickTime player. On the newer machine it plays back at 120, but, except for the motion blur, it looks like it was shot at normal speed.

     

    It's also important to realize that the FPS that is reported is nothing but metadata. It's just like location information, camera type, f stop. It has nothing to do with the frames except to give the software an idea of what speed to try and play back the footage. In production, especially in post production using After Effects, the important thing is getting whole frames into the composition so you can work on the pixels in that frame. Mis-matching comp and footage frame rates results in frames in the comp window that are calculated blends of one or more frames and they are usually a bit of a mess.

     

    I hope this helps.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2013 8:23 AM   in reply to AudoWarp

    I can't tell you why the interpreted frame rate is 59.94 in AE but if you want slow motion you'll have to change the interpretation anyway. Change it to match your comp's frame rate at any of the standard frame rates for video.

     

    On a mac AE I think AE interprets the footage as 120 but I always change it. As I said, I have no idea why windows is displaying 59.94 but it probably has something to do with the Windows media player which AE is using to interpret the footage. 59.94 is closer to 119 fps than 59.976 is to 120. That tells me it's a Windows Media player problem not an AE one.

     

    BTW, your screenshot is showing us the properties for the Comp not the properties for the footage. Select the .mp4 file and tell us what the footage says.

     

    Screen Shot 2013-03-08 at 8.16.11 AM.png

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 9, 2013 3:41 AM   in reply to AudoWarp

    As I said before, most likely it's not AE that's having the eproblem It is your Windows Media Player because that's where AE is getting the information.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2013 3:36 AM   in reply to Rick Gerard

    AE's footage interpretation is something you always have to keep an eye on. I'm still waiting for the day when it will interpret my AVID (from ABVB to DNxHD) files the way I exported them (upper field first) instead of lower field

     
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    Mar 10, 2013 9:37 AM   in reply to Klaus Brandenburg

    Klaus, you can specify that behavior in the interpretation rules if you like.

     
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    Mar 10, 2013 11:47 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Yes, I can do this at home and at certain clients but not everywhere (restrictive policies). Given that Avid codes are quite widespread and use odd fields by default it's quite hard to understand why this is not a standard setting. But I din't mean to hijack this thread but rather say that one should always doublecheck

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2013 2:01 PM   in reply to AudoWarp

    Try out gspot: http://gspot.headbands.com/

    It tells you pretty much everything about your clips.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 20, 2013 6:52 AM   in reply to Klaus Brandenburg

    AudoWarp,

     

    Would you mind uploading an example file someplace where I can grab it so that I can see what you're seeing? I'm guessing that the discrepancy is between a fields-per-second measurement and a frame-per-second measurement.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 20, 2013 6:52 AM   in reply to AudoWarp

    > Not sure how to go about doing that.

     

    There are many online services that allow you to upload files for someone else.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 20, 2013 9:04 AM   in reply to AudoWarp

    Hello AudoWarp,

     

    Can you upload this file using a free service such as yousendit.com ?  I think that's what Todd has in mind.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Matt Dubuque

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2013 5:59 PM   in reply to Matt Dubuque

    I have the exact same question. I shoot avchd .mts files at 1280x720 with a panasonic lumix lx5. VLC media player identifies the clip frame rate as 119.88;

    the Win7 64 bit explorer window shows the frame rate as 59 frames per second;

    using the cs6 properties query (File/get properties/ file) before the clip is imported tells me the frame rate is 29.97. If I bring the clip into the media browser, cs6 wants to change the sequence settings from 59.97 to 29.97. Allowing AE to shange the settings gives me slightly less sharpness in the clip. I'm at a complete loss. It would be nice if someone who understands how AE (or VLC player or Windows explorer) interprets video codecs could chime in.

     
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    Aug 6, 2013 7:45 PM   in reply to RetiredBob

    Are you sure the video is not interlaced? Do you know how to check for that? If the audio sounds normal and the length of the clip is right then AE is properly interpreting the footage.

     
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    Aug 7, 2013 10:57 AM   in reply to Rick Gerard

    Hi Rick,

    With all the conflicting info I am getting from different software about the frame rate on my clips I'm not sure of anything. My Lumix LX 5 manual tells me I can shoot Quick time motion jpeg or AVCHD lite. I am shooting AVCHD lite.

     

    Wikipedia says:

    AVCHD Lite is a subset of AVCHD format announced in January 2009, which is limited to 720p60, 720p50 and 720p24 and does not employ Multview Video Coding. AVCHD Lite cameras duplicate each frame of 25fps/30fps video acquired by camera sensor producing 720p50/720p60 bitstream compliant with AVCHD and Blu-Ray disc specifications.

     

    If anything, that seems to muddy the waters even more.

     

     

    My camera manual doesn't say anything about interlace. But the Wikipedia article on AVCHD says if

    my frame size is 1280x720 then I am shooting at 59.94 progressive, 50 progressive or 23.976 progressive rather than interlaced.

     

    The windows 7 explorer identifies the clip as AVCHD 1280x720 59 fps 11294 bitrate.

     

     

    I bought the lumix lx5 because in video mode it lets me set both the  f stop and shutter speed manually or in shutter or aperture priority modes. I shot these clips at f2.8, iso 800, allowing the camera to set the shutter speed.

     

    How can I verify if the video is interlaced or not?

     

    How does interlaced vs non interlaced effect how software identifies the fps?

     

    Is there software that will count the frames, or turn every frame into a jpeg, allowing me to get a definitive answer to how many fps the clip actually does have? The audio and clip length is correct in cs6 regardless of what codec or fps I use. I'm just wondering how to tell what the actual fps is since cs6 says one thing, explorer says another, and VLC media player says a third.

     
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    Aug 8, 2013 12:39 PM   in reply to RetiredBob

    I don't know if anyone else is interested in the question I raised, or will be in the future, but I was able to answer my own question and verify what the wiki article quote above stated, that AVCHD lite cameras duplicate each frame of 30 fps video to produce a 720p60 bitstream. Maybe that is why cs6 calls the clip 30fps and windows explorer calls it 59fps.

     

    The way I verified this was to video my digital stopwatch face which displays time in 1/100th of a second increments. I captured a couple of seconds of the stop watch running.  I then used the free open source software ffmpeg to extract 60 jpeg frames per second from the clip file and viewed each jpg frame.

     

    Every other frame in the clip was identical, so although there were 60 frames there were 30 duplicates. So in a way, both cs6 and explorer were correct in their labeling of the clip's fps.

     

    I then wanted to see if it was better to set the clip sequence in cs6 to AVCHD 1280x720 59.97 fps or allow cs6 to change the setting to 30fps when I brought the clip into the timeline.

     

    To find out, I created two projects. In one I kept the 59.97 fps setting and in the other I allowed cs6 to change the clip settings to 30fps non drop frame timecode.

     

    In both projects I used the speed setting to lower the speed to 2%, so each of the two second clips lasted about a minute and a half in slow motion.

     

    This experiment did verify my initial impression that clips imported at 59.97 fps had more contrast and clarity than allowing cs6 to change the sequence setting to 30fps. Since I was looking at a closeup of a digital stop watch face showing elapsed time readout in 100th of a second increments at 50x slow motion, it was easy to see that lowering the fps to 30fps made the digital number display a bit less clear.

     

    A final bit of information I learned was that in the course of one second my camera only captured

    18 distinct 100th of a second digital time readings.  It seems the capture speed lags in clusters of time rather than being a uniform stream of 30 captures in one second.  Maybe I should try a faster rated memory card.

     
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