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CH_Joseph
Currently Being Moderated

Network Storage (SAN or NAS) or Terminal Use for VideoEdit

Mar 8, 2013 5:54 AM

Tags: #storage #network #premierepro

Hi @ All,

 

I am in a IT-Project and we are planing to change from Final Cut pro (Mac) on Adobe Premiere Pro (Prod.Suite) 6 on Windows Clients.

 

We have following Situation:

 

- My VideoEdit department will be outsourced and the distance is up to 1-2 km away from my technical and Server department

- I have minimum 3 editors (3 Clients) and some external editors

- I have a 1Gbit Connection between this two departments

- All storage is placed and backuped in the technical department

- Due to DataSecurity it is not allowed to have a local storage in the VideoEdit dept

- the storage amount we need is about 21TB

 

The Questions I have are:

 

- is the 1Gbit between bouth dept. enough?

- is SAN over 1Gbit (without FibreChannel) sufficient enough?

- is NAS performance over 1Gbit enough?

- is remote work over something like citrix or remote-desktop (Hardware will be attached direct to the storage) possible and sufficient enough?

 

I asked our Storage specialist for a possible solution and he was telling me something about Adobe AnyWhere but as far as I can see, this is something like working over a cloud or something like working on a terminal server. The next point is, that the release of Adobe AnyWhere is planned in 2013 but there is no detailed information about it.

 

Hope that some experts over here can help me to find a great practicable solution.

 

Big thx in advanced

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2013 7:50 AM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    No, no, no, no.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2013 8:18 AM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    Read http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1152026

     

    No current version will work with anything other than files on a local hard drive (that may be eSata or USB3... just not over a network)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 9, 2013 9:38 AM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    - Due to DataSecurity it is not allowed to have a local storage in the VideoEdit dept

     

    That will likely be an issue.  The Adobe suite has a tendency to work best when everything is kept local and run under Admin accounts.

     

    What might work for you is Adobe Anywhere.  It's just not ready yet.


    http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-anywhere/introducing-adobe-anywhere-fo r-video/

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2013 2:41 AM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    Nobody's going to tell you when Adobe Anywhere will be released, though the regular cycle for Creative Suite is pretty well-known.

     

    As Jason says, to run AAw you need more than just a networked drive; it requires server-side processing using the same Mercury GPU-acceleration technology we currently have in Premiere Pro. That means a media grid with NVIDIA cards in the server. Having said that, the resulting bandwidth between the client machine and the grid can be very low, as you're just streaming the active monitor window. If you can watch an HD clip on YouTube without buffering, it'll be fast enough.

     

    There are of course a lot of things which aren't possible if the media doesn't exist on your editing workstation - such as passing the media to another app which requires 'local' access to the files (AE, Sg, Au, etc) - and you'll notice Jason didn't get as far as rendering the sequence .

     

    Ultimately, in the situation you describe, there's no solution. Outsourcing video editing to someone who is not allowed to hold copies of the media is just... wrong. Either give the remote site download access or move the staff back to the office. It's like asking someone to paint your house by email.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2013 4:30 AM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    I work with solution ATTO Celerity FC-42ES PCI Express to 4 Gigabit, As storage use a Fibrenetix 12TB. I'm very satisfied, I work with uncompressed video.

     

    Andreas

     

    [signature link removed by forum host]

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2013 4:36 AM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    [moved to hardware forum]

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2013 9:25 AM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    If you have 2 channel of Gbit on each client with Load Balancing and a 4 port Gbit at the San Storage unit then you might have low enough latency that the editors will be satisfied with the performance. Look at SAN storage units that have a PCi-E expansion slot that would allow a fiber or 10Gbit Ethernet card expansion. Thecus has 8 bay units that do which support the current Intel 10Gbit Ethernet cards. There are Dlink switches that have expansion ports cable of adding 10Gbit Ethernet to a 24Port Gbit switch. That would get this done if the clients had Dual Gbit network connection that will load balance. The 2nd option would be to look at direct attached storage ie-SAS for the Server with a 10Gbit card and then run to the Gbit network from the switch.

     

    Eric
    ADK

     
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  • Alex Gerulaitis
    490 posts
    Jun 9, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2013 10:01 AM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    - is remote work over something like citrix or remote-desktop (Hardware will be attached direct to the storage) possible and sufficient enough?

    Hi Joseph,

     

    There are some existing RDC and VDI solutions and technologies available but no known success story with Premiere Pro or any video editing software.  Take a look at Teradici and HP RGS (Remote Graphics Software).  Both of these (like Adobe Anywhere) are VDI solutions, i.e. no processing happens locally - it's all on the remote server, and the images traveling back and forth are compressed to conserve bandwidth and allow for smooth playback.

     

    Outside of that, the technical constraints are pretty severe for a NAS or SAN solution. While I wouldn't so "no" to everything like Harm did, as the theoretical cap of 120MB/s of 1GbE over optical may be enough for some file formats and workflows, it'll take good integrators to get it done and support it well.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2013 5:53 PM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    Hi Joseph,

     

    Harm Millaard was on the right path ;-) …but John Smith's response was not, IMHO.   PPro CS6 can definitely work with remote storage. We've been using it over a SAN and NAS here at our facility for months and it's been working well. Andreas35 also attested that it works although he wasn't clear if he's running a SAN or just having the Fibrenetix as a DAS.

     

    The devil is in the details, and there's a great many of them. First, it looks like Mac users have much better PPro SAN success than Windows (but this is based on reading posts here - not the same as doing proper research and testing). Then there's the kind of storage, network equipment, and how everything is configured.

     

    The first question every video storage architect asks is what codec, how many clients, how many streams? I recently cut auditions that involved just 1 layer of XDCAM EX footage. Guess what, it worked fine over a 1Gbit link. Will it work for 3 editors cutting 3 layers of ProRes(HQ)? No.

     

    Are you an editor or work in the IT department? The most important thing is IT understanding that video needs are different than everything else, and what works for an SQL deduplication system doesn't work for video. IT needs honest willingness to research and hire the right consultants/integrators if you want a good working system. Being aware of Adobe Anywhere is already a positive sign :-)

     

    Speaking of Adobe Anywhere - no word about the release date but all eyes are pointed towards NAB next month, I expect to hear more then.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2013 6:04 PM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    1 - is the 1Gbit between bouth dept. enough?

    Not for editing over (reading), but certainly for copying files. The problems will be as vast as the number of formats (and their associated bit rates) you'll need to edit.

    2 - is SAN over 1Gbit (without FibreChannel) sufficient enough?

    The performance won't be that much greater than that of a NAS. Ethernet has become pretty efficient, but the problem is as it has been - sustained throughput. If you were on 10Gb, the headroom would be far greater, of course, and more tolerant of throughput hills and valleys. If you can throttle everyone's connection to the switch, you might get away with this for a while, given the right SAN software.

    3 - is NAS performance over 1Gb enough? Not reliably.

    4 - remote access. No.

     

    Adobe Anywhere has a lot of promise, but has yet to be delivered. Even then, the first shops to adopt will be taking a big risk. Why not keep the Macs, upgrade them to Mountain Lion, get a second-hand 4Gb fibre switch and install the Mac version of Adobe's software. A Mac mini can run as your MDC for the SAN and all of the Mountain Lion systems would have the SAN software license already installed.

     

    If you are concerned about data security, be sure to sign on with a contractor who carries a $10M bond and has security clearance already in place. That kind of thing is SOP, really, for high security content development. And what could be more secure than sneakernet when moving files around? You are either being handed a losing deck, or you don't have the complete picuture just yet. I'd guess the latter.

     

    Adobe Anywhere probably isn't the answer either. When you are dealing with secured data, the last thing you want to do is to introduce an untested, unproven piece of software. It might handle everything very well from a technical aspect. But how does it handle data security? Too many questions unanswered.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 12, 2013 10:50 AM   in reply to CH_Joseph

    As much as some are discouraging the Gbit setup, this can be done. Most of your standard HD codecs bitrate are well within a good Gbit network's bandwidth. There are 3 keys to this though since the real challenge here is latency and not bandwidth most of the time.

     

    1. Cannot have a bottleneck on the main trunk coming from the Storage/server. This is the most expensive portion of the solution oftentimes and is solved by 10Gbit Ethernet if you have a switch from Netgear, HP, or Dell that allows for 10Gbit add on modules for primary trunks.

     

    2. Often times the latency of the network is really decided by the switches. Using managed switches with lower latency can really boost the ability to use Gbit infrastructure for editing. Once again the coming Edit anywhere essentially illustrates this concept. This is adopting some buffering built into the preview stream that will allow remote preview from centralized or off infrastructure storage. This buffering offsets the realtime latency of network packetting and unpacketting.

     

    3. Using dual port Network adapter configurations at the client with load balancing is key to reduce latency at the client to infrastructure/switch communication. This will streamline the realtime data for video away from lower priority data that is also processing via the network adapters.

     

    If you account for these points then you can get this done provided the material is not in any uncompressed codec or Format.

     

    Eric

    ADK

     
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