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bryanbrowne1
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Color Differences between Lightroom and Premiere Pro

Mar 24, 2013 3:54 PM

I have been making color adjustments to movie clips in Photoshop or Lightroom (both of which do a great job), but when I bring the clips into Premiere Pro or Premiere Elements the colors are not the same as what I was seing in the other programs. It is as if the programs are using different color profiles. How do I resolve this problem?

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 24, 2013 4:15 PM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    You cannot use PP's built-in monitors to accurately judge quality.  You MUST get the signal out of PP, off the computer monitor and onto a properly calibrated TV.  Until you do, you simply cannot be sure you're seeing the signal accurately.

     
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    Mar 24, 2013 4:18 PM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    Are you exporting the clips from Lightroom and then importing them into Premiere Pro?

     
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    Mar 25, 2013 11:44 AM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    I did a test. After sampling the colors in Photoshop in a side by side comparison, the colors tested to be identical. I'm not sure what is different in your system, but I'm using a MacBook Pro and CS6 versions of all my software. I'm using Lightroom 4.

     

    What I use for accurate color adjustment is the Three-Way Color Corrector or Fast Color Corrector effects while monitoring brightness and color with the Waveform Monitor and Vectorscope.

     
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    Mar 25, 2013 12:19 PM   in reply to bryanbrowne1
    when I bring the clips into Premiere Pro or Premiere Elements the colors are not the same as what I was seing in the other programs. It is as if the programs are using different color profiles.

    To begin with, PrPro is not a colour-managed (colour aware) application. It works in sRGB colour space and doesn't recognise linear working space - take that into account while establishing your colour management workflow.

     
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    Mar 25, 2013 1:50 PM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    Premiere Pro does not do color management. If you do want to use color management, you can create a master out of Premiere Pro and then bring that through After Effects (which features color management) for the creation of multiple outputs for various output devices.

     

    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/aftereffects/cs/using/WS61A9D13D-919A-4010 -A3A2-00477A81FDB0a.html

     

    bryanbrowne1 wrote:

     

    It is a little difficult to believe that a company like Adobe that makes products for artists who demand a high degree of control over the aesthetics of their work would not have adequately addressed this issue.

    Thanks,

    Bryan

    There are a lot of different workflows, so that's why we recommend color management for most of our applications. If you would like to see color management within Premiere Pro, you can make a feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

     
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    Mar 25, 2013 3:55 PM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    Seems, this question was marked as correctly answered by magic...

     

    How does your colour mismatch issue look exactly (a screenshot may help)?

    And what is the document working space (profile) in Ps now and what is the profile gamma?

     

    If you have reasons to do your Ps work in a colour space other than gamma corrected (normally 2.2 on a PC or 1.8 on a Mac) sRGB, you have several options to get proper look in PrPro. Check out this article on converting profiles in Photoshop. Another option is to import your profiled footages into After Effects, interpret them there and import into PrPro via Adobe Dynamic Link (keep in mind, you shouldn't linearise AE project working space unless you fully understand linear workflow; see this thread in AE Forum on colour management via Adobe Dynamic Link).

     

    If you need some more help, provide as detailed description as you can.

     
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    Mar 26, 2013 8:24 AM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    Upload somewhere your Ps file you have the issue with and a test PrPro project within which the aforementioned colour mismatch is reproduced. I'll have a look and either PM you my Skype or give step by step instruction on how to fix the issue.

     

    By the way, do you have After Effects installed?

     
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    Mar 29, 2013 4:45 AM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    It's hard to guess without seeing your actual PSD file and PrPro project.

     

    So as to find out what is your working space and which profile is currently assigned to your PSD file open it up in Photoshop then go to Edit -> Convert To Profile... You'll see the following dialog box:

    Ps. Colour Profile.jpg

    If the Source Space is not sRGB IEC61966-2.1, you have several options to fix the issue:

    1. Instead of exporting your video out of this PSD file and then reimporting the rendered footage into PrPro, import your PSD file into PrPro directly, choose Individual Layers in the Import Layered File dialog box.

     

    Bear in mind, you are limited to 99 layers when importing PSD file into PrPro. If you have more, PrPro will neither see the rest in the dialog box nor import them. In this case you should split your original PSD file into several ones.

     

    If you have some difficulties on importing, such as PrPro can properly see just one layer (frame) inside your PSD file and perceives all the rest as e.g. White Solid, make sure you have Frame Animation in your PSD, not the Timeline, and Frames are Flattened into Layers.

     

    2. If you don't want to take trouble over direct PSD import, prior to rendering your video out of Photoshop as either QuickTime movie or image sequence, convert the colour profile of your PSD to sRGB IEC61966-2.1, i.e. go to Edit -> Convert To Profile..., make sure your Destination Space is set to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 (exactly as in the screenshot above) and click OK. Then render.

     

    If it were me, I'd render to either PNG (both MOV file and image sequence options are available) or TGA (image sequence).

     

    If all the above doesn't help, consider sharing both your PSD file and PrPro project file. Use file hosting services like FileFactory or Dropbox.

     
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    Mar 29, 2013 4:58 AM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    bryanbrowne1 wrote:

     

    I have been making color adjustments to movie clips in Photoshop or Lightroom (both of which do a great job), but when I bring the clips into Premiere Pro or Premiere Elements the colors are not the same as what I was seing in the other programs. It is as if the programs are using different color profiles. How do I resolve this problem?

     

    Photoshop and Lightroom are designed for still photography. Still photographers use a color managed workflow that in general ends in a paper print. Since printers/inks/papers can in general display a wider gamut than computer monitors can display, we use tools manage it, such as soft proofing. The efficient way to control this is through ICC profiles of the printer/ink/paper combinations, of which there are thousands. Thus Photoshop and Lightroom and other still photography tools are esentially required to be color managed.

     

    PPro and film/video have decidedly different requirements. The video workflow ends in a light source display (projection, HDTV, or web video, all are light sources, where a pigment ink print is a reflective source, which has entirely different characteristics). These end displays are not variable workspace displays. HDTV displays only in REC.709 workspace, its gamut, contrast, etc. are tightly defined. Web video uses the sRGB workspace. Etc.

     

    I'm just sayin' that still photography and video have very different requirements. Trying to force still photography methods onto a video workflow is bound to be difficult and full of problems, as you have found.

     

    The answer to your "How do I resolve this problem" question is perhaps to use the still photography tools for still photography, and the video tools for video. A stills workflow for stills, and a video workflow for video.

     

    A video workflow implies doing color correction and color grading on external monitors that natively support the target work space (Rec.709 in the case of HDTV, Blu-ray, or DVD output [OK, technically DVD uses SDTV's REC.601 work space, but 709 is "close enough" that you can get by in all but the most critical applications]). IOW, use a production monitor, or at least an HDTV (calibrated of course), to judge final output.

     

    Trying to color correct video on a computer monitor is just asking for trouble. As you well know by now.

     

    A good place to start learning the video way of things when it comes to color correction and grading is Alexis Van Hurkman's Color Correction Handbook. Highly recommended; it answered questions that I didn't know enough to ask yet. Might for you too, IDK.

     
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    Mar 30, 2013 12:13 PM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    Bryan,

     

    For years I have been bringing photos in from Photoshop into Premiere and now Premiere Pro and never experienced any issues like you describe. In fact, I just opened a video slide-show project in CS5.03 any my colors are spot on. Further more I love the ability to right click on a photo in the timeline and send it to Photoshop for edits, which are then automatically propagated back into the Premiere Pro project. I do use Adobe color management in Photoshop and for printing to an Epson Stylus Pro 3800 printer and colors are spot on there as well.

     

    Here's my workflow:

    - Do primary editing of photos in Photoshop

    - Use Photoshop batch processing to reduce resolution and make a copy of all photos as JPGs; this is really easy and I feel reduces the load by Premiere to deal with more "right sized" flattened images vs. the original DSLR or scanned LARGE PSD files

    - Use Bridge and "batch rename" feature to do final culling and putting a rough cut order number for each file (i.e. 0003_Dave_face.jpg); has nothing to do with color management, but I really appreciate how much time this aspect of my workflow helps for projects with 500+ photos

    - Finish up with Premiere Pro

     

    Full disclosure - I do not fully comprehend all of the variants and subtleties of color management and therefore had not posted to this thread before. I am posting now though with the though that possibly something I am doing here (maybe sticking with sRGB, maybe saving to JPG before using photos in Premiere, other???) would help you or someone else out.

     

    Regards,

     

    Jim

     
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    Mar 30, 2013 12:08 PM   in reply to cfg_2451

    >> PPro and film/video have decidedly different requirements.

     

    That is incorrect.

     

    The ICC color management workflow applies equally to film and video.  ICC profiles and conversions account for reflective and emissive displays, as well as all kinds of image sources (film, digital, rendering, etc.), and viewing conditions (surrounding color and brightness, display brightness, adaptation state, etc.).

     

    But there has been resistance to adoption because the technology came from outside the film and video community (and some groups are just allergic to standards).

     

    With ACES workflows, the film and video community is slowly adtopting some color management -- putting them about where the photo community was in 1992.

     

     

    BTW - Rec. 709 and sRGB only differ significantly in the intended viewing environments (dim living room versus well lit office).  For most purposes they can be treated as being the same.

     


     
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    Mar 30, 2013 12:12 PM   in reply to JEShort01

    Since we know that Premiere is not color managed (will not convert colorspaces, will not correct for the display, etc.), your best bet is probably to target all images for sRGB - which is nearly the same as Rec. 709 for video.

     

    I am not yet sure how Premiere will handle ACES workflows for film production (which require at least minimal colorspace conversions and display correction).  For more info on ACES: http://www.oscars.org/science-technology/council/projects/aces.html

    Fortunately, unless you make big films, you probably don't have to worry about ACES just yet.

     
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    Mar 31, 2013 9:13 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris,

     

    Nice to see you over on "this side of the street."

     

    Thank you for your explanations and observations. Always appreciated.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 2, 2013 4:57 PM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    What do I need to do then to make accurate color adjustments while working in Premiere Pro?

     

    A properly calibrated external TV.  You can get the signal out via third party hardware from AJA, Blackmagic and others.  Or you can export and bring it to a DVD or Blu-ray player hooked up to a calibrated TV.

     
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    Apr 3, 2013 3:10 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    All very interesting.  I will point out in case it helps someone that PSP does have a color profile for Rec 709 already built in--it also has a profile for NTSC-1950, amd Rec 610.

     
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    Apr 3, 2013 5:45 PM   in reply to bryanbrowne1

    Photoshop and Lightroom correct the color from the document colorspace, and convert that to the colorspace of your display - this way you get the most accurate representation regardless of the display, and it'll look the same to everyone (because they correct for different displays).

     

    Applications that are not color managed just copy the values from the document to the display without any conversion - which means that what you see is highly dependent on each display, and everyone will see something different (because they have different displays).

     

    Because Premiere is not color managed, the default display will look different than color managed applications like Photoshop and Lightroom.

     

    If you are using sRGB or Rec.709 for your document profile, then what you see in Photoshop and Lightroom is probably close to what you would see if you put the output from Premiere on a calibrated video display.  If you are using other profiles for your documents (Adobe RGB, ProPhoto, etc.) then you probably need to convert to sRGB or Rec.709 so that it will look correct once output from Premiere.

     
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