Skip navigation
al998
Currently Being Moderated

Beating a dead horse?  Inverse Telecine in CS6 to convert PF24.  Included: minor solution.

Apr 3, 2013 1:51 PM

Hey guys,

 

I'm pulling my hair out here.  We had 3 cameras running at a recent event, all of which were shooting at 23.976 -- we thought.  Turns out that a Canon prosumer handheld was shooting "PF24" which Premiere interprets as 29.97.  I've already Googled the heck out of this problem, and nobody seems to have a real answer.  The common answers are:

 

1) Just place it on the 23.976 Premiere timeline and Premiere will "fix" it automatically.  This does NOT work.  You end up with stuttering duplicated frame video.

 

2) Interpret Footage to 23.976.  This does not work either, it just slows down the video.

 

3) Use After Effects to do a 3:2 Pulldown and "guess" the type necessary until you get it right.  This probably does work, but "trial and error" is dumb, and it also assumes you have After Effects, which I don't.

 

 

So, for what it's worth, after much headache, I've "solved" this problem by using Virtualdub and the IVTC plugin (with reduce frame rate turned on) to get usable 23.976 AVIs.

 

 

However, with that said, I can't believe there's no Inverse Telescine/3:2 Pulldown method in Premiere.  I've looked through all the settings and I can't find anything.  From Googling it sounds like this is an incredibly common problem -- am I just missing something?

 

It seems crazy to me that I have to use a freeware program like Virtualdub to do something as simple as coverting 29.97 to 23.976.  But thank god it exists, I guess.

 

Am I missing something?  Is there a hidden IVTC option somewhere?

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2013 3:21 PM   in reply to al998

    It seems crazy to me that I have to use a freeware program like Virtualdub to do something as simple as coverting 29.97 to 23.976.

     

    It doesn't sound crazy at all to me.  Jeff Bellune, myself and another forum contributor, Dan Isaacs, spent hundreds of man hours and probably a year of our lives trying to get Virtualdub to do this well with DV material.  We succeeded, and ended up with what I believe is the best method of converting 30i into 24p, called dv2Film.  Jeff has a tutorial below:

     

    http://bellunevideo.com/tutdetail.php?tutid=15

     

    The reason that method was necessary is that normal 30i video has 60 individual fields, each a unique image.  There was no pulldown added to be removed, and some pretty complicated math was required to make the result look good.  That will not not apply in a pulldown situation, though.  PP is fully capable of removing pulldown added to 24p simply by dropping the clip into a 24p sequence.  If you're getting the familiar stutter when doing this, that strongly suggests that the camera was not set to 24p mode and adding pulldown, that it was both shooting and recording at 30i, in which case you do need a solution external to Adobe software.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2013 4:37 PM   in reply to al998

    just that simulated PF24 garbage which (hard codes?) duplicated 5th frames

     

    That PP should be able to handle just by dropping the clip into a 24p sequence.  If  it's not working, that suggests you weren't shooting in 24p, but 30i, which has 60 unique images, not the repeated or added images you get from pulldown.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 7, 2013 4:06 PM   in reply to al998
    I tried placing the 29.97 PF24 MTS files on a 23.976 timeline and ended up with stuttering video.

     

    What I'm suggesting, if that is the case, is that you didn't actually shoot in 24p mode, because PP should have no trouble removing the pulldown.  The only time you should get that stutter is when you have 60 unique images, meaning 30i not just as the recorded format, but as the shooting format as well.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 7, 2013 4:09 PM   in reply to al998

    PF24 encodes 24 into 30i.  I have no idea why they would do this.

     

    A lot of cameras do that.  In fact, all DV cameras that have a 24p mode do that because DV can only record 30i.  PP has no trouble removing the added pulldown and displaying the original 24p image.  The only time you have an issue is with genuine 30i originals, where you have 60 unique fields, no pulldown.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 7, 2013 4:46 PM   in reply to al998

    Strange.  If you'd care to upload a clip, I'd be interested in playing around a bit.

     

    https://www.depositfiles.com/en/

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 7:51 PM   in reply to al998

    I don't think I can shout this loud enough -- Jim Simon is totally wrong concerning his fix for PF24 footage and Premiere Pro CS6.  You cannot simply drag PF24 footage into a 24P, PP sequence and walla, the problem magically goes away.  If you look closely at the footage you will see alias problems all over the place.  Jim has no idea what he is talking about.  This is not the solution for removing pulldown issues created by recording in the PF24 AVCHD format. 

     

    Adobe Premiere Pro development team -- please fix this @$%& problem asap!!!!  The PP Interpret footage function is a joke without it!

     

    The best solution I could come up with after investing a ton of time into this is to use AfterEffects inside PP as a filter.  Therefore you will not have to duplicate or re-render all your PF24 footage to create true 24p clips.  You work with the same source clips throughout the entire process.  Here's what you do - 1st create a 24p AVCHD sequence in PP and drop your PF24 clips into it. Now you can select individual clips or the entire sequence of clips and "right click" and select "Replace with AfterEffect Composition".  This will export the selected clip(s) into AE.  Now you can use the world-famous AE Interpret footage function to remove the pulldown issues.  Inside AE right-click the clip - select Interpret footage - select the fielding (in my case it was Upper Field First) - then finally the "magic bullet" - select "Guess 3:2 Pulldown" button.  Now when you jump back into PP you will be working with beautiful "TRUE" 24p footage.

     
    |
    Mark as:

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points