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Own or  Owe your Photoshop

Apr 13, 2013 12:47 PM

Tags: #cs3 #color #adobe #cs5.5 #crash #tool #cs6 #cloud #creative_cloud #stock #sell #land #own #independent #buck #servant #puts #investor #truth

Before I start the one thing that really accelerated growth in US in the early years was the Ownership of Land. Infact most Americans thing owning a house or a condo is the thing to do. Right now the US is in horible debt and cannot find itss way out. We just had a banking crisis, because we love to buy what we do not need. When buying a car having cash is a far better path.

Witht the cloud service Adobe is moving us from Software owners to software owers.

 

Ok so its 2 bucks a day. That 2 bucks is everday for life. its 1800 in three years. If the Price stays at 50. For a three month plan it is at 80 per month.

 

If as a country we stay in debt and as inividuals we get deeper in Debt we will not have a thriving economy. I belive that Adobe is doing a diservce to all of uss with the cloud. I would encourage you to read there forewwrd loooking statments (what they tell Wall street) and see how they see profits growing.

 

If you to choose to own Adobe will need to be on itss toes aand continue to hire qaulity people to build the software and support it.

if you rent they will have you locked in there is no out because you will always want or need the tools.

If you own you will pay less like buying a car.

if you rent you will pay for stuff you dont use. ( No one can really fully use all the titlels)  that is a sales pitch. maybe you reaally use 4-5 titleles.

'If you buy the software you are telling Adobe that who they have been is great and you want that for the future,

If you rent you will never see what Adobe cloud have come up with.

So do you want to be to create and own or be in debt

Welcome to the DarkAges of Tech

 
Replies 1 2 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2013 1:45 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    The flaw in your argument is when you "buy" a perpetual license, you don't actually "own" the software, you license it...that's the difference between tangible personal property (like land) and intellectual property. When you buy software, you buy the right to use it. Yes, with a perceptual license, you maintain the right to use the software in perpetuity (or as long as you have a computer and OS that can run it). With a subscription license, your right to use the software is time limited. But, as shown with the recent PS CS6 (v13), subscription licensees actually got feature upgrades with 13.1 compared to the perpetual licensees who only got bug fixes.

     

    And you would do well to ignore the whole "in the cloud" aspect of the software…subscription licenses are not "cloud" licenses…the cloud part is a different set of features for storing certain items "in the cloud".

     

    I think you need to re-think your position and make sure you really understand the impact (both good and bad) of subscription vs perceptual licenses…

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2013 2:18 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    I've sen similar threads in the forums and Adobe Staff usually fix the issue up very quickly.

     

    The cloud does have many happy customers as well as the conscientious objectors.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2013 2:31 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    What exactly are you trying to contact Adobe for?

     

    I cannot see any particular technical or product related questions in your previous threads.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2013 2:36 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    No time.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2013 2:47 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    001andrew wrote:

     

    My possition is i own not rent!

     

    Yes, you own the perpetual license to use the software for as long as you have a machine to run it on...by the way, the EULA (end user license agreement) says nothing about the right to upgrade the software to new versions and it expressly indicates the license is for a single OS platform. You really should try to understand what you bought and your rights as a licensee.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 13, 2013 6:57 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    Of course it's a bid to get more money for the software.  They have valuable software that you can't possibly make yourself and you can't buy a viable alternative.  Welcome to capitalism.

     

    If you owned Adobe stock and were looking for the best return on your investment you'd want them to do that any way they can.

     

    Here's what you need to do:

     

    1.  Buy a perpetual license upgrade for every new version release.

     

    2.  Get a cloud subscription also.

     

    This way you'll have access to all the very latest new features as soon as possible, while at the same time the ability to stop paying for the subscription at any time and continue using the software.

     

    It's only money.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 13, 2013 8:19 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    By the way, you DO know you can set up a cloud subscription for Photoshop alone, right?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 13, 2013 11:56 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    A.  I don't believe we're THROUGH anything.

     

    B.  Who's twisting your arm to buy or lease Photoshop or even to use a computer at all?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 15, 2013 11:07 AM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Jeff Schewe wrote:

     

    001andrew wrote:

     

    My possition is i own not rent!

     

    Yes, you own the perpetual license to use the software for as long as you have a machine to run it on...by the way, the EULA (end user license agreement) says nothing about the right to upgrade the software to new versions and it expressly indicates the license is for a single OS platform. You really should try to understand what you bought and your rights as a licensee.

    Correction; you own a license to the software. There's nothing perpetual about it. Just ask anyone with CS2 or before who can no longer activate their legally purchased product due to Adobe's activation servers crashing. Servers they have no intent of reactivating.

     

    YES, they put up a version of CS2 that can be used instead, but my point is; they didn't have to. And kudos to Adobe for doing it, by the way. They could have very well just said "Oh well, too bad folks." and walked away from that seven-plus-year-old software. So again; OS version compatibility aside, there's nothing perpetual about a license to software that needs to be activated under any such scheme. Adobe's or anyone else's.

     

    Getting off my soapbox now...

     

    --OB

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 15, 2013 12:24 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    I, for one, am looking forward in a way to just having PHOTOSHOP.  No CS 6, 7, 8 or 88.

    If you want Photoshop, you rent Photoshop.

    If Adobe does away with perpetual licenses, they can do away with the scramble every 18 months to implement some new "killer feature" to entice previous users to drop a grand on an upgrade chock-full of new, poorly implemented features that break other things in Photoshop. And I bet the engineers would like a chance to fix the years-old pile of ignored bugs and performance issues instead of frantically scurrying around trouble-shooting the latest and greatest rushed to market "magical” command or filter.  It was a model that could not be supported without producing the bloated cumbersome software that Photoshop is fast becoming.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 15, 2013 1:57 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    Maybe one of the supporters of the cloud "rent" idea can address what happens when the computer you are using is the only one you can afford, for whatever reason(s), and it ceases to support the newest version of said rented Photoshop.

     

    My main working machine (PPC Power Mac G5 Quad) only supports Photoshop up to CS4, and it serves all my needs admirably.  I do have an Intel MacBook on which I run Photoshop CS6 just to be able to run ACR 7.4 on my G5's monitors; but that was a rescue from the trash at no cost to me, which is not a likely repeatable situation.

     

    One shudders at the thought of the cost of antidepressant medications needed to combat the feeling of having to pay a monthly tribute to Adobe in perpetuity. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 15, 2013 2:01 PM   in reply to charles badland

    charles badland wrote:

     

    …If Adobe does away with perpetual licenses, they can do away with the scramble every 18 months to implement some new "killer feature"…

     

    Yeah, that too:  there goes the incentive to push application development to the next level. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 15, 2013 3:05 PM   in reply to station_two

    …If Adobe does away with perpetual licenses, they can do away with the scramble every 18 months to implement some new "killer feature"…

     

    Yeah, that too:  there goes the incentive to push application development to the next level. 

     

    That's always been my biggest concern with the Cloud.

     

    Other than pushing themselves, to the external observer, where is Adobe's motivation to continually innovate if their customers are all on the all-or-nothing Cloud plans paying their monthly fees?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 15, 2013 6:11 PM   in reply to station_two

    I don't know if that is necessarily the case. Adobe has no real competition. So their model has been, Make version  A, then version B add "can't-live-without-killer-new-feature". Early in PS development, that may have been a good model, adding truly essential features like layers, adjustment layers, smart objects... But now, some 23 years later, that does not necessarily mean a better product, just a product different enough that users feel they have to shell out the big bucks to upgrade. No one is going to pay 1000 dollars to go from version A to version A.0.1 because it "works a lot better". Going to a non-perpetual license (and maybe I'm being irrationally optimistic here) could free up development to actually make Photoshop cleaner, faster, more productive and bug free than ever.

    Maybe.

     

    Take the new Crop Tool as an example. That really needed a few more months of development before being a touted as  new "major feature". But now here it is in CS6... but do you think it is currently a priority for Adobe to fix its faults? Will Adobe promote upgrading to CS7 because "we've fixed all the problems with the Crop Tool"?

    No! They'll be fixated on the "Un-Blur" Filter or some other "must have killer feature"..  not necessarily on making the CS6 a better application.

    Being a version-free cloud product, Adobe can promote Photoshop as a damn good, expansive and deep software that is constantly being upgrading so users would never even think about another editor.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 15, 2013 9:37 PM   in reply to station_two

    station_two wrote:

     

    Maybe one of the supporters of the cloud "rent" idea can address what happens when the computer you are using is the only one you can afford, for whatever reason(s), and it ceases to support the newest version of said rented Photoshop.

     

    I'm not a "supporter" of the cloud, per se (recall I proposed buying BOTH perpetual license and cloud subscription, to get the best of both worlds; if you can do without the very latest, buy the perpetual license and be done with it).

     

    It's an "if you want to play you have to pay" thing, which is not a "tight budget" kind of concept.  It's what happens when Adobe's got the goods and we consumers want the goods.

     

    Before you label me a snob, know this:  I'm not wealthy, but I DO need Photoshop for my business, so it's a necessary business expense.  One day it might not be so, and at that time I might choose to step off the train and continue using what I have licensed at that time.

     

    I don't think there's anything about the cloud that compels you to upgrade.  I believe a cloud license will entitle you to run whatever version(s) you have been running all along.

     

    And I don't mean to pick nits, but an Intel Mac doesn't have to break the bank...  At some point even the lowest of the current low-end models will outpace whatever ancient hardware you may have, and eBay always has deals.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 15, 2013 9:24 PM   in reply to charles badland

    charles badland wrote:


    Going to a non-perpetual license (and maybe I'm being irrationally optimistic here) could free up development to actually make Photoshop cleaner, faster, more productive and bug free than ever.

     

    I believe it will.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 16, 2013 3:03 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    …I don't mean to pick nits, but an Intel Mac doesn't have to break the bank...

     

    Noel,

     

    Of course I realize that it's always prudent to upgrade hardware whenever feasible, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the subscription forces me into doing it in the scenario I described.

     

    Additionally, I'd point out that the reality is that there is no bank out here, whether to break it or not. 

     

     

    Finally:

     

     

    …At some point even the lowest of the current low-end models will outpace whatever ancient hardware you may have…

     

    Believe it or not, after more than six years, performance-wise that point hasn't been reached by Apple yet.  Not in any significant way.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 16, 2013 6:35 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    charles badland wrote:

     

    Going to a non-perpetual license (and maybe I'm being irrationally optimistic here) could free up development to actually make Photoshop cleaner, faster, more productive and bug free than ever.

    Noel wrote:

     

    I believe it will.

     

    I think that Adobe's decision to move to cloud services has little or nothing to do with development cycles. At least directly. I believe it is for normalizing the revenue stream. WallStreet really does like consistency versus localized jumps in revenue that occur when versioning changes.

     

    As long as Adobe really doesn't do away with perpetual licenses, I could care less. I look at people using the cloud as beta testers ensuring those very few features and even fewer bug fixes that occur between versions have little impact on my version. And heck, these are beta testers that pay for the privilege of getting the first-hand bugs.

     

    Mike

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 16, 2013 8:05 AM   in reply to 001andrew

    Not understanding fully, Andrew. One can still currently upgrade perpetual licenses. Adobe hasn't yet announced doing away with them--at least I haven't seen such a statement.

     

    Yes, upgrades will come faster. Yes, that costs some bucks. No, one cannot afford to skip versions as per the past. So yes, more money per year for the perpetual licensee.

     

    I don't use PS that much--stopped upgrading it many versions back and use something else. My bite comes with ID and AI--and I only upgrade AI because of the odd job I need to return files in AI format (but I still do most of the work in something else, taking it into AI towards the end). So I'll keep paying for perpetual licenses as long as it lasts. I will not use the cloud unless all options for perpetual licences stop from every vendor.

     

    Mike

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 16, 2013 9:02 AM   in reply to charles badland

    "Take the new Crop Tool as an example."

     

    No thank you (I wish ) ...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 16, 2013 9:36 AM   in reply to 001andrew

    001andrew wrote:

     

    [...] Nvidia cuda cards. My machine is a Mac Apple refused to realese drivers for Nvidia. So I am going windows to have buying options [...]

     

    http://www.nvidia.com/object/macosx-cuda-5.0.45-driver.html

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 17, 2013 8:11 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    With consumers it's about how much per month they can spare.  In general, people don't think ahead, nor do they do math.  A monthly lease that hides the true long-term cost AND helps lock people into future business is sheer genius.

     

    Adobe has my sincere admiration.  They've been able to both create valuable software people want for decades, and find new ways to market it in the modern connected world so as to maximize the money they make with it.  Bravo, Adobe!

     

    If Photoshop were to be sold or leased at a price you would like, a reasonable businessman would argue that it's set too low.  You should feel some pain in paying for the things that have great value to you.  Adobe in turn should get some of the profit they facilitate you making with their valuable products.

     

    Perhaps you should try spending more time making money with Photoshop than wasting your time here ranting.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 17, 2013 11:35 PM   in reply to 001andrew

    001andrew wrote:

     

    also note how much naryeen sells over 1mil shares this year

    http://biz.yahoo.com/t/08/4204.html

     

    Do you even have a clue who Shantanu is? Yes, he's the CEO...but do you know him? Do you have any idea why he has exercised some of his options and sold some stock?

     

    You may think your biz.yahoo links have some secret telltales, but you are trying to read tea leaves you clearly don't understand. And you clearly can't read the numbers, Shantanu has sold 355K shares this year (starting 01-01-2013), not 1 mil...yes, he's exercised some options…but he's only sold 355K this year and only sold $290K in 2012…so what? Maybe he's building a new house. What does this have to do with anything you are talking about?

     

    You need a better understanding of corporate America to draw any conclusions regarding insider trading. Sorry, you are showing more ignorance than insight...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 12, 2013 2:38 AM   in reply to 001andrew

    001andrew wrote:

     

    If you cannot see and read that Adobe is all about inreased revenue then you are DUMB sorry but its true,. Maybe you are mineral deficent I dont know or care!. Look at anything they say on any site or report ita all about the cloud nothing about a better product or better value or added users or organic market growth. Jeff Schewe grow up/ wake up

     

    Hum, do you know what a corporation is? Do you know who a corporation has a responsibility to? Maybe to it's shareholders? Is that a bad thing?

     

    I'm wide awake and fully grown up. Thank you very much for caring...(not that I belive you care about much of anything).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 12, 2013 3:05 AM   in reply to charles badland

    Hi,

    charles badland wrote:

     

    Being a version-free cloud product, Adobe can promote Photoshop as a damn good, expansive and deep software that is constantly being upgrading so users would never even think about another editor.

     

    This could also mean that CC subscribers will live with beta software forever. Quickly adding new features "on the fly" is a nice marketing argument but what about the QI process? With the previous model, beta testing was supposed to take place before the release of a new major version (although we could sometimes really doubt about this). Now I'd like to hear something about how regression testing will adapt to the new model...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 12, 2013 8:06 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel, I've read most of your BS responses.  You are either the largest stockholder of Adobe or replacement CEO.  Most of us here bought, supported and contributed to Adobe.  Our support and buying of the product (or license as you lawyers say) was the reason was able to develop the product.  And it is a fine payback we get.  Well it's time for many of us who enjoy photography either as a hobby or a profession to start looking for alternatives and get our heads out of the cloud(s).  No software company yet has been the "only one" out there.  there will be someone else come along.  Adobe did the same thing with Adobe Reader.This action by Adobe is a cheap, greedy, money grabbing way of the new world.  Noel, stop being a company shill!

     
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