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Elements 11

Apr 28, 2013 3:22 AM

Tags: #photoshop_elements_11

I currently have a copy of elements 10 which will not open images taken on the new Nikon D7100 to camera raw my software is fully updated, do I need to obtain a copy of Elements 11 to enable me to open my images

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 5:35 AM   in reply to Spender290

    You could try by downloading the codec.

    http://nikonimglib.com/nefcodec/index.html.en

    Might also be on the cd that comes with the camera.

    Great camera btw. Got mine only a few weeks ago.

     
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    Apr 28, 2013 6:10 AM   in reply to Spender290

    Spender290 wrote:

     

    I currently have a copy of elements 10 which will not open images taken on the new Nikon D7100 to camera raw my software is fully updated, do I need to obtain a copy of Elements 11 to enable me to open my images

    For still images, the 7100 is so new that RAW capability was not added by Adobe until the last version of Adobe Camera RAW (ACR).  The current 7.4 is the first that includes the 7100.  After you install PrE 11, you may still need to update the ACR.  Do this by going to Help > Updates.

     

    PrE and PE 10 will not install ACR above 6.7, so if you want to process RAW images you need 11.

     

    If you have both Photoshop Elements and Premier Elements, the Adobe installer will update them both.  It seems that it is not well know that Premier Elements can use RAW files for "slideshows" or inclusion with video clips.  For example PrE11 can take a RAW image from the camera with no processing and you can use the "Ken Burns" Pan and Zoom tool, the adjustments or many effects. 

     

    There was a significant change in PrE11 for handling HD video, particularly the AVCHD format.  I looked up the D7100 and didn't see that as an option so I don't know if PrE11 would make a difference for D7100 video.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 6:31 AM   in reply to whsprague

    The D7100 does H.264 in a mov wrapper and works as expected in E11, zo do the raw files.

    The codec was added just a couple of weeks ago.

    For east playback you could change the extention from .mov to .mpg.

     
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    Apr 28, 2013 9:35 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    Ann Bens

     

    Your wrote in post #3 in this thread

    "The D7100 does H.264 in a mov wrapper and works as expected in E11, zo do the raw files.

    The codec was added just a couple of weeks ago."

     

    To what codec are you referring and to what was it added?

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 9:39 AM   in reply to whsprague

    whsprague

     

    You wrote in post #2

     

    "For example PrE11 can take a RAW image from the camera with no processing and you can use the "Ken Burns" Pan and Zoom tool, the adjustments or many effects."

     

    What are the pixel dimensions of these stills in raw format - from the camera with no processing" - that you are importing into Premiere Elements 11?

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 10:07 AM   in reply to Spender290

    Spender,

     

    Welcome to the forum.

     

    1. What happens with new cameras is that Adobe gets the exact specs. for their Camera RAW Image files, NEF in your case.
    2. They write a new ACR (Adobe Camera RAW) module for those files.
    3. When installed into a host program, like Photoshop, or Premiere Elements, that new version of ACR works well.
    4. At some point, in the evolution, Adobe will cease writing ACR modules for previous versions of the host programs, so one will need a newer version of the host program(s), to use the latest ACR modules.

     

    Apparently, PrE 10 does not use the latest version of ACR, though before you upgrade, just for the ACR support, I would test installing the very latest version of ACR, to see if PrE 10 can see it. Maybe so, but maybe not. Just depends on where the "cutoff" with host program version numbers falls - could ONLY be available with PrE 11, but not PrE 10.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 11:42 AM   in reply to Spender290

    Spender290

     

    With the exception of the DNG Converter, the following probably points to what you have already been told in your thread. But you may want to hold onto the following Adobe links for further reference:

     

    “Camera Raw Plug-in/Supported camera”

    Confirming that for Nikon D7100, the minimum Camera Raw plug-in version required is 7.4 (and that Camera Raw 7.4 is not supported until you get to Elements 11.)

    http://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite/kb/camera-raw-plug-supported-cam eras.html

     

    Also you might want to check out the following Adobe link which includes DNG Converter for your raw files.

    “Troubleshoot Camera Raw/Photoshop, Premiere Elements”

    http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/troubleshoot-camera-raw-photo shop-photoshop.html#main_Solution_4

     

    A just in case note, with the appropriate installs, with Camera Raw Plug-in installed, in Photoshop Elements the raw should open to the Camera Raw Dialog for editing and perhaps later opening into Photoshop Elements. But, in the case of Premiere Elements, the perk from the Camera Raw Plug-in installation, is that Premiere Elements will support ONLY the import of raw and dng files into the project, no Camera Raw Dialog editing there.

     

    Are your interests in your Nikon D7100 files related to raw stills or video?

     

    ATR

     
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    Apr 28, 2013 5:30 PM   in reply to Spender290

    Spender290

     

    Let me tell you at the onset that I do not have a camera that shoots raw images. And, my experience with editing raw images in Adobe Camera Raw has been confined to using sample raw images from the Internet for practice. All that being said, I decided to take a closer look at your Nikon D7100 raw (nef) files and editing them in Camera Raw in Photoshop Elements as well as using them in Premiere Elements.

     

    Given that Nikon D7100 is not supported until Camera Raw 7.4 and that Camera Raw 7.4 is only offered in Photoshop Elements 11, you do NOT need Photoshop Elements 11 and its Camera Raw 7.4 to edit these files if you convert these files to the dng version. It is easy to do.

    http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=5569&fileID= 5577

    With that dng version of the nef file, you can edit that in your Photoshop Elements 10 Camera Raw 6.7 if you want, and import that dng into a Premiere Elements 10 project via its Get Media/File & Folders for use in a project there. However, the raw and dng images that I have run into are huge (some 6000 x 4000 pixels) and I would not dream of importing that size image into a Premiere Elements project (guidelines typically are for SD not to exceed 1000 x 750 pixels and for HD  not to exceed 2200 x 1238 pixels). But, for Premiere Elements 11 and 10, the raw 6000 x 4000 pixels image and its counterpart dng will import for at least one such file. For versions of Premiere Elements earlier than 10, that size image will NOT import.

     

    As I have mentioned in a prior post in your thread,

    "...in the case of Premiere Elements, the perk from the Camera Raw Plug-in installation, is that Premiere Elements will support ONLY the import of raw and dng files into the project, no Camera Raw Dialog editing there". In the case of the 6000 x 4000 pixels nef or dng image that do import, one could right click the file on the Timeline and select "Edit with Photoshop Elements" to get the image into Camera Raw on the Photoshop Elements side if indicated.

     

    The following are the results of trying to import an online sample Nikon D7100 nef file (6000 x 4000 pixels, file size about 30 MB) and its dng counterpart produced using the DNG Converter into several versions of Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements.

     

    nef image

     

    Photoshop Elements 11

    File Menu/Open/Camera Raw 7.4 success

     

    Premiere Elements 11

    Add Media/Files & Folders/Opened success

     

    Photoshop Elements 10

    File Menu/Open/"Cannot open nef because it is the wrong type of file." failure

     

    Premiere Elements 10

    Get Media/Files & Folders/"This type of file is not supported or the required codec is not installed." failure

     

    dng counterpart

     

    Photoshop Elements 11

    ...Opened to Camera Raw 7.4 success

    Premiere Elements 11

    ...Opened to Project Assets success

     

    Photoshop Elements 10

    ...Opened to Camera Raw 6.7 success

    Premiere Elements 10

    ...Opened to Project Media success

     

    Photoshop Elements 9

    ...Opened to Camera Raw 6.5 success

    Premiere Elements 9.0/9.0.1

    ...Add Media Failure "File video dimensions (width/height) too large". failure

     

    Photoshop Elements 8

    ...Opened to Camera Raw 6.2 success

    Premiere Elements 8.0/8.0.1

    ...Add Media Failure "File video dimensions (width/height) too large." failure

     

    Photoshop Elements 7

    ...Opened to Camera Raw 5.6 success

    Premiere Elements 7.0

    ...Add Media Failure "File video dimensions (width/height) too large." failure

     

    Photoshop Elements 6

    ...Opened to Camera Raw 4.2 success

    Premiere Elements 4

    ...Add Media Failure "File video dimensions (width/height) too large." failure

     

    From my Premiere Elements perspective I would need to do my homework on how one goes about resizing raw and dng images. Even though Premiere Elements 11 and 10 do not block the import of raw and dng images such as 6000 x 4000 pixels, as does versions 9.0/9.0.1 to 4, those pixel dimensions are unthinkable for me in a Premiere Elements workflow.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 4:36 PM   in reply to Spender290

    Spender,

     

    If you have not seen this thread, it might be of interest: http://forums.adobe.com/message/5196677

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 4:56 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    I don't know what the pixel dimensions are.  It does not seem to matter.  PrE11 seems to accept the idea that it can use RAW still photo files without any hickups in a HD project.

     

    Bill

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 5:51 PM   in reply to whsprague

    Bill,

     

    Thanks for the post.

     

    Pixel dimensions represent the image size in pixels (width x height). When I right click the nef file in the media area of Premiere Elements,  select Properties in Premiere Elements, and read the properties for the file, I see Image Size: 6000 pixels x 4000 pixels for the nef image that I used in the tests that I described in post 8 of this thread.

     

    Apparently Premiere Elements 11 is not refusing to import such a size as does versions earlier than 10. But, I only used one raw or dng image in my tests.

     

    You wrote:

    "I don't know what the pixel dimensions are.  It does not seem to matter.  PrE11 seems to accept the idea that it can use RAW still photo files without any hickups in a HD project."

     

    If you have the time, I would be curious to know what the Properties readout for Image Size is showing for the raw image that you are importing into your Premiere Elements 11 HD project and how many of such do you typically use in one of these programs.

     

    The concept of pixel dimensions and pixel dimensions oversized for the project is classical and not something new and invented by me. This often has its impact on program performance for a project as well as the success or failure of a file to import.

     

    Your observations will be very helpful.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 6:48 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    A.T. Romano wrote:

     

    whsprague

     

    You wrote in post #2

     

    "For example PrE11 can take a RAW image from the camera with no processing and you can use the "Ken Burns" Pan and Zoom tool, the adjustments or many effects."

     

    What are the pixel dimensions of these stills in raw format - from the camera with no processing" - that you are importing into Premiere Elements 11?

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

    5472 x 3072, 19.8 MB, with no re-sizing or other processing.

     
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    Apr 28, 2013 6:56 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    A.T. Romano wrote:

     

     

    ......and I would not dream of importing that size image into a Premiere Elements project (guidelines typically are for SD not to exceed 1000 x 750 pixels and for HD  not to exceed 2200 x 1238 pixels).

    .......

    From my Premiere Elements perspective I would need to do my homework on how one goes about resizing raw and dng images. Even though Premiere Elements 11 and 10 do not block the import of raw and dng images such as 6000 x 4000 pixels, as does versions 9.0/9.0.1 to 4, those pixel dimensions are unthinkable for me in a Premiere Elements workflow.

     

     

    I'm new at this and can't find those guidlines anywhere.  Not knowing better, I imported RAW images from a Sony RX100 many times before I knew I was not supposed to.  It works fine.  There is something in PrE 11 that makes it work.  May I put up an example for you?

     

    Bill

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 7:22 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    A.T. Romano wrote:

     

     

    If you have the time, I would be curious to know what the Properties readout for Image Size is showing for the raw image that you are importing into your Premiere Elements 11 HD project and how many of such do you typically use in one of these programs.

     

    The concept of pixel dimensions and pixel dimensions oversized for the project is classical and not something new and invented by me. This often has its impact on program performance for a project as well as the success or failure of a file to import.

     

    Your observations will be very helpful.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

    Here is a three shot video:  https://vimeo.com/65022516  The third shot has a Pan and Zoom applied.

     

    Right clicking on Properties in the Project Assets box says 20.1 MB, 5472 x 3080. 

     

    There seems to be no limit to the number or degredation of processing. 

     

    PrE11 does not seem to have the restrictions that previous versions may have had. 

     

    Bill

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 7:36 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    A.T. Romano wrote:

     

    .......... The concept of pixel dimensions and pixel dimensions oversized for the project is classical and not something new and invented by me. This often has its impact on program performance for a project as well as the success or failure of a file to import.

     

    Your observations will be very helpful.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

    In another thread several weeks ago it was made clear that "resizing" was mandatory.  Since that did not match my experience I spent a day testing.  As soon as I made a video example the thread died.  Nobody responded.  You can watch here:  https://vimeo.com/60952115

     

    About a week later, after some discussion, I made another example:  https://vimeo.com/60904593   I simple imported half a dozen RAW files and selected an output suitable for Vimeo. 

     

    On my computer with my camera, oversized pixel dimensions, resizing or any other kind of editing is not necessary for import into PrE11. 

     

    Others may find it different.

     

    Bill

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 7:48 PM   in reply to whsprague

    Bill

     

    Thanks a lot for the follow up with the additional information about the image size for your raw images in Premiere Elements 11.

     

    Let me do some calculations from your 5472 x 3072 pixels raw, and I will get back to you.

     

    In earlier versions of Premiere Elements, whether the stills were raws or jpgs, a message would pop up if one had gone over a program size limit. I did some calculations at the time to demonstrate that the triggering of the Premiere Elements message went to the total number of pixels for the image rather than a specific width or height exceeding a limit.

     

    I just found the thread from April 2010 Premiere Elements User to User at Adobe that involved this type of discussion. Many of the current contributors are present in that thread, including Bill Hunt and Steve Grisetti.

    "JPG size limit in PE8"

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/624979

     

    It looks like your 5472 x 3072 pixels would yield Total Pixels = 16809984 pixels

    which would have been just above the 16777216 pixels limit for go and no go in Premiere Elements 8.

    And, my 6000 x 4000 pixels would yield Total Pixels = 24000000 pixels

    which would have been way way above the 16777216 limit for go and no go in Premiere Elements 8.

     

    It would appear that "something" was changed in the programming in of Premiere Elements 11 and 10 in this regard as compared to versions earlier than 10.

     

    I do a lot of troubleshooting posts at Premiere Elements Forums and have several typical statements that I pop into my posts from time to time. One goes to my philosophy that suggestions are guidelines and as such we should be guided by them but not ruled by them no matter who is making the suggestion. Another is go with what works.

     

    One of the major things that I enjoy about troubleshooting is the opportunity to continue to learn. So, if you have an example to present to demonstrate your successful workflow for import and performance to end product,  I would appreciate that.

     

    Thanks again.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 7:13 AM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    ...................

     

    It would appear that "something" was changed in the programming in of Premiere Elements 11 and 10 in this regard as compared to versions earlier than 10.

     

    ........................

     

    One of the major things that I enjoy about troubleshooting is the opportunity to continue to learn. So, if you have an example to present to demonstrate your successful workflow for import and performance to end product,  I would appreciate that.

     

     

    AT,

     

    I've learned a lot here and a couple other forums as well.  I too find it rewarding when I can pay back some of the help I've received.

     

    My "photos in a video" work flow came by accident.  I was asked to shoot a family elder speaking at a reunion.  To make it more fun I gave cameras to my granddaughters.  One did the primary video and the other shot lots of photos and a little video.  I was the editor.  Somewhere I read that you could put photos above the video track and PrE included the "Ken Burns" Pan and Zoom effect.  So my "work flow" was to add the photos the same way as the video clips, by putting them in Project Assets with Add Media. 

     

    Then I bought a new camera that would shoot RAW photos, . jpg photos and  AVCHD 1080p60 video clips.  It is the pocketable Sony RX100.  I needed to upgrade to PrE11 to support the AVCHD video and PE11 to get a late enough version of ACR for the new camera.  PE came with ACR 7.0.  The camera needed ACR 7.2.  Running the Adobe update app surprised me by reporting the 7.2 ACR updates were "successful" in both PrE and PE!

     

    Why would ACR be installed in PrE.  There is absolutely no reference to it on any menus or is it visible in any way.  But, the Adobe installer put it under the hood somewhere. 

     

    I took my new camera on a trip through the Panama Canal taking both video clips and photos.  When I came home the "work flow" was to mix them at random in the PrE11 Expert timeline.

     

    I should add that along with the new camera, I decided to add leaning creative PE and Lightroom use.  Although PrE's adjustments tab works on RAW photos, it is limited compared to PE and Lightroom.  So, in addition to the RAW photos I take directly into PrE, I may also use the output from PE.  Since a .jpg from PE has some "compression", I like to use .dng.   The same for Lightroom where I "export" as a .dng for PrE. 

     

    And 5 minute example of a tourist video with lots of clips and .dng files is https://vimeo.com/64474485

     

    A much shorter demo is a video I made to demonstrate putting a few RAW files in a video with no processing or resizing other than what PrE11 does on its own.  I emphasize these are RAW files straight from the camera.  My "work flow" is to copy from the camera's SD card directly to my computer, make another copy in a project folder, open the project, add the RAW files and drag them to the timeline.    See https://vimeo.com/65022516

     

    To summarize, there is no special work flow for me.  Media is media (except for .tif files that PrE spits out).  I had not read the threads about the need to resize or preprocess my photos so I just did it.  And, it worked.   The guidelines for resizing may have been necessary in previous versions, but I have not found it to be the case with what I have.  

     

    Bill

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 7:58 AM   in reply to whsprague

    Bill

     

    Thank you very much for sharing your comments and those beautiful vimeo video views. Exceptionally excellent video and audio. You proceeded as a symphony conductor with the integration of your photos and videos, pans and zooms, and music. Magnificent blend.

     

    ATR

     
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    Apr 29, 2013 8:24 AM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    WOW!  What an amazing and nice compliment.  Thank you. 

     

    There is one more thing to add that was fun for me.  Last fall Google bought Nik, the maker of some nice-plug ins for PE.  One is an HDR processor called "HDR Effects Pro 2".  Until a couple weeks ago, it was pretty expensive (for me).  Google decided to drop the price dramatically.  I bought the whole package.  The Black and White plug-in is as amazing (to me) as the HDR plug-in.

     

    The Grand Canyon presented a dilemma.  Tourist photography is about taking pictures and video when you are there.  The option of being a serious photographer, camping out at sunrise in different locations each morning for a week, is not an option.  It is rude to any tourists with you, like a spouse. 

     

    Ideally I would have liked to do the Grand Canyon all in video with perfect light.  I was there at high noon on a hazy day.  So, instead of giving up, I tried the post processing route and relied more on stills.  Each still was shot with 3 or 5 exposures, loaded in Lightroom, sent to HDR Effects Pro, "cooked" ever so slightly, sent back to Lightroom as a single .tif and exported by Lightroom as a .dng to PrE where I added the Pan and Zoom.   The process is actually quite smooth, automatic and quick.  The result is images that "look like what I remembered seeing".  They have warmth, depth and the vivid Grand Canyon texture and color.  It is even better when Vimeo has not processed them.

     

    While I was at the Grand Canyon as a tourist, I bought a professional Blu-Ray and 3D video narrated by Robert Redford.  I'm not quite home yet.  When I get there I am looking forward to seeing how non-tourist, professionals do it.  I suspect they use helicopters and gyro stabilizers more than tripods. 

     

    Bill

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 8:57 AM   in reply to Spender290

    Spender290 wrote:

     

    I currently have a copy of elements 10 which will not open images taken on the new Nikon D7100 to camera raw my software is fully updated, do I need to obtain a copy of Elements 11 to enable me to open my images

     

    If you do not want to upgrade to E11, shoot jpeg instead of raw. In Elements you will not see the difference between raw and jpeg. The camera comes with a CD which probably lets you convert to jpeg.

     
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