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My biggest concern. Does anyone else feel the same way?

Apr 28, 2013 2:27 PM

My biggest concern about the Cloud is that I have The CS 5.5 Master Collection right now. If I join the cloud for 18 months and decide to drop I loose the current Cloud Membership version be it CS 6, 6.5 or 7. I would  still be able to use my 5.5 version but there may be features I still need in the current version. I think that is why many would prefer to buy the boxed version and own it rather than rent it. I think it is great that current user get a discounted price for a year. Having said that I would join The Cloud if I got to keep the current CS version when I stop making a monthly payment to The Cloud Membership.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 3:07 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    If you lease a car, you don't get to keep it when it's time to return it unless you then buy it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2013 3:23 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    I would join The Cloud if I got to keep the current CS version when I stop making a monthly payment to The Cloud Membership.

     

    What makes you think you don't?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 12:35 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    That's correct, and perfectly sensible. You are renting the software, if you stop paying you lose any right to carry on using it.

     

    I would suggest waiting until after MAX to see if anything interesting is announced, as then you will know what upgrade prices you may or may not qualify for.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 12:47 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    Simple economics. On average, Master Collection used to about $2500 and a new version was released in less than two years (faster with CS5.5->CS6). Even with upgrade discounts, it can cost a lot more than $700 a year to keep all the applications and services in Creative Cloud updated individually. Also, many business customers find it doubly-cheaper to subscribe as a rental fee is in a different tax class (it's no longer a capital investment so it can be written down).

     

    It's somewhat of a moot point anyway. You'll notice that the Adobe website has just been rearranged, so finding information about perpetual-licensed Creative Suite collections is now a lot harder. The Creative Suite homepage now only refers to Creative Cloud. I'd take that as a hint.

     

    medeamajic wrote:


    Why spend $700.00 a year to join the cloud if you will never own the software. I think that is why many people are still buying the boxed DVD set.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 1:18 AM   in reply to Dave Merchant
    ...so finding information about perpetual-licensed Creative Suite collections is now a lot harder.

    Just click the Buying guide link...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 8:49 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    Adobe stated that if you do not pay you will no longer be able to use it.

     

    You will not be able to use your Cloud version.  This has nothing to do with your current 5.5 version.  You can use that as long as you want.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 8:54 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    Why spend $700.00 a year to join the cloud if you will never own the software.

     

    For me, because the monthly payments were a better option that paying the upgrade fee all at once.  Plus I get the added benefit of all the new features for the same monthly fee, without paying another large chunk of cash.

     

    (P.S.  It's actually only $600 full price, and Adobe sometimes runs specials that come out to only $360/year.  So it's even cheaper than the upgrade, and waaaaaaay cheaper than a full purchase for anyone starting out.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 6:57 PM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    Have you actually followed the link? Click on one of the Collections and look at the purchase options on the right sidebar.

    Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

     

    ...so finding information about perpetual-licensed Creative Suite collections is now a lot harder.

    Just click the Buying guide link...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 8:38 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    You can stop planning for "the DVD box set". Read about discontinued physical media. All retail products are going to be download-only.

     

    You keep replying with complaints that Creative Cloud stops working if you don't keep paying, which implies you are not grasping the idea that this is RENTAL. You do not 'buy' anything. You never own the software.

     

    Stop paying rent on your apartment and, surprisingly enough, the landlord will not allow you to live there for free. Why on earth would Adobe give you their software for free?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 9:03 PM   in reply to Dave Merchant
    You can stop planning for "the DVD box set". Read about discontinued physical media. All retail products are going to be download-only.

     

    I don't take that to mean that you can't get the familiar perpetual license that mediamajic prefers, only that physical shipments of install disks are being discontinued.  You can still buy the regular license, but as a download only.  This has been true of FCP X since it was released, so it's not that earth-shattering.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 9:06 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    The boxed version does have an advantage. 

     

    It does, but that one advantage is offset (for me, at least) by two fairly significant disadvantages.  First, you pay the whole chunk up front.  If you're flush, maybe that's not a problem.  (But then again, if your finances are good, $30/month shouldn't be any great worry.  Most phone bills are higher than that.)  And secondly, you need another big chunk of cash to get the new version.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 9:11 PM   in reply to Dave Merchant

    The key to this is the math.

     

    If you always upgrade, then it will be cheaper to rent. If you always seem to put it off for a version or two it might be cheaper to buy.

     

    If you turn in your new car every two or three years, it may be cheaper to lease, if you keep your cars for ten years or 200,000 miles whichever comes first, then you should buy.

     

    Same thing.

     

    With perks for the rental thrown in. I get a free Prosite and Behance account, I get room to put up practice web sites, I have every program I want without having to justify the cost separately. If I pay $2500 for a package but I can rent it for $600 per year (full price) then when the upgrade comes out the following year or two it would cost another, let's say, $500, then I really am better of renting.  With the Creative Cloud, I get the new version right away. In fact, there are probably little bits and pieces showing up all the time. I am not in the middle of a particularly large project so I just allow the upgrades every time.

     

    If I can no longer afford $50 per month then you probably shouldn't be wasting money on cameras and computers and software. I should probably be out doing something that makes a lot more money than photography, or videography. Let's face it, unless you are a hobbyist with spare cash, you should be making enough money to support your software needs. If not, find a new career.

     

    Seriously. I don't want to insult anyone, I am just saying that most people spend more on coffee every month than $50. Or bottled water. Or beer.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 9:14 PM   in reply to Steven L. Gotz

    Or Coke®

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 9:59 PM   in reply to Dave Merchant

    Once a new version comes out, it would be a nice option for Cloud members to have the option to be able to BUY the previous version so they then would have a perpetual-licensed of it.

     

    This way they keep having the newest version but would always have the old one if they needed it.

     

    Like a car lease, you have the option at the end to buy it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2013 10:04 PM   in reply to Powered by Design

    Now that's a good idea. Let's say that the software has been out 18 month and you have paid $900 in rental fees. You could get a $900 discount on the purchase of the older version. That sounds like a good deal for all concerned.

     
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  • Jon-M-Spear
    969 posts
    Jan 27, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2013 12:04 AM   in reply to Steven L. Gotz

    What a good idea, PbD.  Let's all campaign for optional perpetual licence conversion as you suggest.

     

    I, for one, don't want to get stuck on a treadmill that I can't get off - particularly as I'm a self-employed sole trader who's at the age when things start to slow down, but still intend to keep active on the photo/video/compositing side of the industry.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2013 12:30 AM   in reply to Dave Merchant
    Have you actually followed the link? Click on one of the Collections and look at the purchase options on the right sidebar.

    That's what I normally do prior to posting links. Here is how it looks for me:

    CS. Purchasing Options 01.jpg

    CS. Purchasing Options 02.jpg

     

    Sorry, I'm still missing your point...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2013 3:59 AM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    My point is that on every page Creative Cloud is now the primary suggestion, and any mention of perpetual licensing is gone from the landing page, even though you're not actually on the Creative Cloud part of the website. Perpetuals aren't being dropped yet, but I can see a time when rental is the only option for retail customers, and Adobe are putting a concerted effort into migrating as many people as possible onto that pathway.

    Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

     

    Sorry, I'm still missing your point...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2013 4:32 AM   in reply to Dave Merchant

    I don't see any contradictions in mentioning Creative Cloud option in non-Creative Cloud part of the website dedicated to Creative Suite. Yes, Adobe is on the Creative Cloud promotional campaign, but 'Porter's Five Forces' is not abolished yet. Hence, will see.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2013 6:28 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    My main concern is what if I jump ship to Avid, Edius or Sony Vegas but I need to do a re edit once or twice a month.

     

    Then you pay the fee for that month to reactivate the software.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2013 5:33 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    medeamajic wrote:

     

    Let me restate this. If Lightworks or Decklink offers a better solution in 2 years from now for me needs and it is free why wouldn't I ditch Premiere Pro and save money (with The Cloud I cannot save money)? I would not be paying  a fee to use Lightworks on a daily basis but I would be paying Adobe to use thier software 4-5 hours a month for rediting jobs only.  The bottom line! Adobe will have me by the balls! I do like my CS 5.5 Master Collection but I want to see if Adobe can realize my concerns.

     

    So stick with purchasing the box versions

     

    When it came time to upgrade our software I looked closely at the options and, as others have stated, in the end it came down to economics: the Cloud cost $600 p/a ($360 for the first year due to old box sets). The equivalent boxed bundled worked out at about $1115 p/a, calculated on both upgrading every new version and every second version (the price was virtually the same for either option). Great - that's a +$500 saving p/a PER SEAT. Plus the tax benefits.

     

    Now, assuming 4 years down the track Blackmagic or whoever releases an AE/Premiere/PS/AI killer (unlikely, but I'll run with it for arguments sake) that $2k I've saved by going with the Cloud I can put towards the odd monthly rental to revise old jobs and in all likelihood still end up significantly ahead. Or prior to my subscription running out I could export XML's of each of my projects for transferal to that Blackmagic Godzilla NLE package. Or download an Adobe trial version and export that way. Whatever. There are options.

     

    At the end of the day I think, respectfully, you're basing your argument on flawed economics. Realistically if you can't afford an extra 12 months Cloub subscription there's no way you should have bought a box set in the first place. But hey, if you need the peace of mind of ownership and don't do this for a living then just buy the box set already. Or don't.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2013 9:53 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    Does that method really sound good to you?

     

    I don't have a problem with it.  What I'd earn from a reedit would be a lot more than the monthly subscription anyway.  And you can always add that fee to the bill.

     

     

    I hope everyone can see my concern.

     

    Not really.  To me is seems like you're working very hard to invent reasons not to move to the Creative Cloud.  I mean, if you just don't like it, that's fine.  The normal license is still available.  But you seem to be trying to convince us that the Cloud is some kind of raw deal, and I just don't see it that way.  For me (and I presume a lot of others), it's an excellent bargain.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2013 10:15 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    So, in conclusion, your situation indicates that you should just buy the perpetual license (the box) like you did for Edius.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2013 2:50 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    medea

     

    I agree that the cloud is a just a way for adobe to smooth out their profit curve and ensure month to month financial security--I like you do not agree that we should be forced into renting these programs when buying assures that down the line you will ALWAYS have access to the programs you PAID FOR!!!--for me at work I'm fine--have what I need--at home got the CS4 prod suite and was gonna upgrade to CS6 suite for $700 in January '13 and they told me to (go kick rocks ole timer...) go buy the product all over again for 1900 or go to the creative cloud--those were the only options and I could not upgrade for 700 for the suite as I had done in the past--I understand your position--believe me I do--but what can be done now??--These fine fellas here swear by the subscription based product and I'm so glad it works for them as these guys have been very helpful to me in the past and present--It just dosen't work for me (and you)---what else needs to be said??--have a bruschi and we will all find our way to make it one way or another in this cold cold world--I feel you dog!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 9, 2013 6:08 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    Total agree

     
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