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Best Practice for 8mm 18 fps movies

Apr 30, 2013 4:07 PM

I've just transferred a bunch of old 8mm home movies as image sequences. They were shot at 18 frames per second and transferred frame-for-frame as a series of TIFFs.

 

My goal is to edit these things in an 18 fps timeline and then export the finished video as an 18 fps quicktime -- then post them  on Vimeo. It seems  that this will produce the smallest amount of artifacting.

 

I've imported the clips and set their frame rate in "Interpret Footage". And I've created sequences at 18 fps by dragging a clip to the new sequence icon. My problem now is how to export. All the export options limit you to a menu of framerates -- but the menu doesn't include 18 fps. FLV let's you set a "same as source" framerate, but I'd prefer to create quicktimes. I know that I can do this in After Effects, but it's easier to do the editing work in Premiere.

 

Anybody have any suggestions how I can output at 18 fps? And will Vimeo (or any other video hosting service) accept that rate? And if this won't work, then what's the best way to get them to 24 fps? Would that be Twixtor?

 

Many thanks to anybody who can offer any suggestions --

 

Steve

 
Replies
  • joe bloe premiere
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    Apr 30, 2013 5:13 PM   in reply to SteveC100

    This is an interesting subject to ponder, since I am in

    the opening stages of a similar 8mm archiving project.

     

    I plan to keep the native fps timelines in the project, then export

    to whatever format / codec / fps is optimum for each destination.

    Let Media Encoder do the interpolation.

    Encode specifically for upload, Blu-ray, DVD etc.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Apr 30, 2013 5:42 PM   in reply to SteveC100

    Hahaha... I just ran the same test, except Ut .avi.

    I don't have any of my 8mm xfers yet, so I tested

    with a 30fps 3d animation clip interpreted to 18fps.

     

    Do you have Twixtor to comparatively test the motion?

    Twixtor has a demo version that draws an "X"

    on each image if you have no registration key.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2013 9:40 PM   in reply to SteveC100
    I've imported the clips and set their frame rate in "Interpret Footage".

     

    There can be problems doing that.  Instead, you should go to Edit>Preferences>Media... and set the Indeterminate Media Timebase to 18.  The problem is, it won't go below 23.976, so you may be stuck with the problem, unless...

     


    what's the best way to get them to 24 fps?

     

    Have the film telecined with the necessary pulldown added to a real video file, rather than an Image Sequence.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    May 1, 2013 6:24 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Have the film telecined with the necessary pulldown added to a real video file, rather than an Image Sequence.

    Jim,

     

    Of course that would make perfect sense.

    But, I'm inclined to want each frame of film transferred

    to one frame of video (regardless of the original fps).

    I may want to roto, clean, retouch etc. without having

    to remove a pulldown first.

     

    What do you think of a workflow using Ae to insert the

    proper pulldown instead of using Media Encoder and

    being stuck with its repeated frames?

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    May 1, 2013 6:50 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim Simon wrote:

    I've imported the clips and set their frame rate in "Interpret Footage".

    There can be problems doing that.

    What is the potential downfall in this procedure?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 1, 2013 6:59 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    PP assigns the Indeterminate Media Timebase to an Image Sequence upon import.  This happens beneath the level of Interpret Footage.  Exactly what effects that might cause I've never seen, but it's something to be aware of.  (One possible effect might be frame blending or interpreted frames when you don't want that.)

     

    As for AE adding pulldown to get it up to 24, I'll leave that to the AE experts.  I'm definitely more of a dabbler with that program.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    May 1, 2013 7:03 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Hmmm... thanks.

    I wonder if Ae employs the Indeterminate Media Timebase

    in the same manner as Pr?

     

    Maybe this should be an 'Ae only' project?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 1, 2013 7:06 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Another good question for AE experts.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    May 1, 2013 11:38 AM   in reply to SteveC100

    Maybe the intermediate frame rate is doing something, but if so, it is invisible to me.

    I don't see any immediate problems in an 18fps Pr Timeline either.

    But on export, Pr / En either blends or repeats frames,

    so I think sending to Ae for pulldown insertion on export

    is probably the way to go.

    The difference is that AE allows you to export as an 18 fps Quicktime. (Quicktime is happy to run at any frame rate, so why PP restricts the rate is beyond me.)

    18fps isn't any sort of standardized format, so I'm not really

    surprised that it isn't an export option in Pr / En (aside from .flv).

    Also, most playback methods (Blu-ray, DVD etc.)

    will require a standardized format + frame rate.

    So I'm thinking of editing in PP and then exporting the whole seq to AE for output.

    However inconveniently cumbersome this approach might seem,

    I think in the end it should yield the best result.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    May 21, 2013 9:17 AM   in reply to SteveC100

    Steve,

    Thanks for reporting back with your results.

    I have not started my 8mm project yet, and your input

    will be a valuable asset for when I eventually take up the task.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    May 21, 2013 9:36 AM   in reply to SteveC100

    Good info.

    I have filed it away for when I do my old films.

    Thanks again.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 11:51 AM   in reply to SteveC100

    SteveC100 -

     

    I'm curious as to how exactly you are transferring the 8mm film to TIFF files. I am interested in doing the same.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Mike

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    May 21, 2013 12:50 PM   in reply to MikieZZ

    MikieZZ,

     

    I would be interested in knowing the service Steve used as well.

    Here is who I am planning to use (recommended by Jim Simon).

     

    Debenham Media Group

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 22, 2013 7:16 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Joe -

     

    I had a number of 8mm reels converted to HD a couple of years ago. At the time it appeared that the ScanStream Sniper-HD was the best piece of equipment for doing that. (http://www.moviestuff.tv/8mm_sniper_hd.html). I used the Reel House for conversion because they had a Sniper-HD and they did a good job considering the source. However I would like to somehow be able to get a Tiff per frame converson in order to clean up some 70+ year old footage.

     

    Mike

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    May 22, 2013 7:53 AM   in reply to MikieZZ

    MikieZZ,

     

    Thanks for your post.

    I have PM'd the OP with a request to revisit this thread

    and share his outlet for TIFF film transfers.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    May 22, 2013 1:34 PM   in reply to SteveC100

    Thanks for the information, Steve!

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Jun 17, 2013 4:58 PM   in reply to SteveC100

    Thanks for the update, Steve.

    Valuable info.

     
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