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i_am_cipher
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PE11 and 1080p 60fps

May 5, 2013 10:09 AM

Hi,

 

First of all i'm pretty cluless when it comes to video. Photography is more my thing.

 

I borrowed a friends camcorder  (Panasonic TM900) for an event, but now I'm struggling with the output. The oginal raw files look stunning, however I can't seem to export them and have them look anywhere near as good as the oringals, no matter what I try.

 

 

I believe I imported the videos into PE11 correctly using the AVCHD 1080p 60 setting. However no matter what I select to "share" just gives me much lower quality results. I did a seach and  see somone mention that you can select AVCHD MP4 1080p 30 as the output then go to advanced and slect 60fps. This DID seem to help the quality alot, but it seemed to make the video more jittery and not as smooth as if frames are being dropped. Not to mention the 7 second video clip I was using to test was about 28MB, seems like thats pretty big. Surely this can't be the only way to export???

 

Exporting to Ipad or to youtube gives similar awful results

 

 

I'm not sure what other info to give, but any help is appreciated, I'm at my wits end with this.

 

 

Jim

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2013 10:35 AM   in reply to i_am_cipher

    Jim

     

    Could you post a screenshot of your Advanced Button/Video Tab settings for your customized preset used to get your 1080p60 as AVCHD.mp4? Either that or post the Advanced Tab/Video Tab settings.

     

    Also, to import your 1080p60 into Premiere Elements 11, are you letting the program set the project preset or are your setting the project preset yourself? If the program is doing the project preset setting, then please verify the setting via Edit Menu/Project Settings. If you set the project preset yourself, File Menu/New/Project and the choice NTSC/AVCHD/AVCHD 1080p60 with a check mark next to "Force selected Project Setting on this Project".

     

    You could also export as H.264.mov....the QuickTime route/NTSC 16:9/Advanced Button Video Tab/H.264 codec and 1920 x 1080/60/progressive/square pixels (abbreviated version, details on request).

     

    You could also export as Windows Media Video 9.wmv...the Windows Media route/720 x 480 16:9 29.97/Advanced Button Video Tab/Windows Media/Windows Media Video 9 codec and 1920 x 1080/60/square pixels (abbreviated version, details on request).

     

    You realize that file size can be adjusted under the Advanced Button/Video Tab with the bitrate settings (if available). And, lowering the bitrate will typically decrease the file size and quality; whereas, increasing the bitrate will typically increase the file size and quality. A compromise between file size and quality often needs to be found. Just in case notes.

     

    Please view the above. I will try to get some Panasonic TM900 video samples this afternoon and give them a first hand look in Premiere Elements 11 export choices for 1080p60.

     

    Looking forward to your follow up.

     

    ATR

     
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    May 5, 2013 10:39 AM   in reply to i_am_cipher

    Jim,

     

    I have a direct relative to your camera, use PrE11 and get very good results.

     

    How did you view the original raw files were you said they look stunning?  What setting was the camera on when you took them?  Even the lowest setting can be stunning, depending on how you view it.

     

    Knowing the camera and the software, my first guess is that you may not have shot in p60 and may be trying to edit in p60.

     

    I am probably the one that wrote about reseting the frame rate to 60p at output.  I do it with good results. 

     

    What is the intended target?

     

    Bill

     
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    May 5, 2013 11:06 AM   in reply to whsprague

    whsprague

     

    I have written about the suggested export settings mentioned for both 1080p60 and 1080p50 going back quite a while now.

     

    They have always given excellent results for others and myself. It is good to know that they have worked for you also.

     

    In view of my past experiences in this type of export in Premiere Elements 11, I have asked Jim for more information about all the settings that he is using for his 1080p60 export as AVCHD.mp4. I am hoping that the answers will be in the details forthcoming from him.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2013 11:38 AM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    Knowing that particular camera, you have to take an extra step or two to get to 1080p60.  When it was being developed and sold, p60 was not yet included in AVCHD.  So, p60 is not on the regular menu.  There is a dedicated physical button for it.  Since he borrowed the camera, he probably didn't get a lot of time with the instruction manual.  The default is a 1080i60 at 16 Mbps variable.  Unless there is a lot of motion, the picture quality can be stunning even though that's two steps below the best. 

     

    I'm still guessing until there is more information, but my guess is that he is trying to use PrE to make 60p files out of 60i files.  I don't know as that would work very well.

     

    The other reason for the guess is that he was surprised by the file size.  The PrE default bit rate only makes the files a little larger than the orginal, if the original is 60p.

     

    Bill

     
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    May 5, 2013 11:46 AM   in reply to A.T. Romano

     

    I have written about the suggested export settings mentioned for both 1080p60 and 1080p50 going back quite a while now.

     

     

    Didn't mean to offend or step on your toes. 

     

    I think the first time I tried it and posted here was in PrE9 when my camcorder was new.  Maybe it was 10.  In both cases, you weren't even supposed to be able to get 60p source files to load (according to some of the MVPs here).  However, with a project preset of 720p60 I got smooth editing on an i5 laptop.  At output I could select 1080p,  bump the frame rate to 60 and, although it was slow, I got files that played well on my big screen. 

     

    Bill

     
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    May 5, 2013 12:38 PM   in reply to i_am_cipher

    Before we go any further download this little programm and install.

    http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en

    Open a clip you have shot with camera and let the programm analyze the clip.

    Post a screenshot of the result preferably in tree view.

    After reading this screenshot we can set up a proper project for you and proper export settings depending on the final product you want.

    Might want to give you pc specs also.

     
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    May 5, 2013 12:49 PM   in reply to i_am_cipher

    Jim,

     

    Let us start with what I know has worked for me and others with Premiere Elements 11 Windows 1080p69 project specifically.

     

    For the AVCHD.mp4 (1080p60) Export

    Publish+Share

    Computer

    AVCHD

    Presets: = MP4 H.264 1080p30

     

    Under the Advanced Button/Video Tab of the preset...

     

    Codec: MainConcept H.264 Video (given)

    TV Standard: NTSC

    Frame Width = 1920 pixels

    Frame Height = 1080 pixels

    Frame Rate = 59.94 (based on your video properties that you just posted)

    Field Order = None (Progressive) grayed out (given)

    Pixel Aspect Ratio = Square Pixels

    Profile = Main

    Level = 5.1

    Bitrate Encoding = VBR, 2 Pass

    Target Bitrate = 32 Mbps (megabits per second)

    Maximum Bitrate = 40 Mbps (megabits per second)

    Start with those bitrate and increase, determining whether increases in the bitrate improve quality to any extent (watch the file size with these bitrate increases)

     

    For now, leave everything else as is for the preset.

     

    Depending on your results, we all can discuss other export route details.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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    May 5, 2013 12:55 PM   in reply to whsprague

    Bill,

     

    No offense taken. Just happy to get another "it works for me" report. These reports help us to pin point cause of these "does not work for me" and help others who were not successful in trying to do this. And, there is always the bonus that there is yet another variable to factor into the equation for success in this regard.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2013 2:31 PM   in reply to i_am_cipher

    Jim

     

    That is great news. Your follow up is much appreciated.

     

    Based on my experiences, you are not going to get a 1080p60 upload to YouTube if you try to do the upload from within the Premiere Elements 11 Publish+Share/Online/YouTube. The presets via that route are non adjustable and best = 1920 x 1080 at 29.97 frames per second.

     

    What I have tried is the upload of the AVCHD.mp4 (1920 x 1080 at 60 progressive frames per second) at the YouTube web site. That turned out fairly well. Worth giving it a try for your Premiere Elements 11 AVCHD.mp4 (1920 x 1080 at 60 progressive frames per second) file. In one case, YouTube offered a pop up to video stablize one of my videos. I did not expect that. Reminder, whatever you send, YouTube converts it to flash video as far as I know.

     

    Lots to explore.

     

    What version iPad do you have? I do not have an iPad, but, as far as I can determine, it does not support 1080p60 or 1080p50. Probably latest version, 1080p30, but not 100% sure on that. Needs verification.

     

    Please update us on your progress.

     

    Lots here interested and wanting success for your projects.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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    May 5, 2013 3:43 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    Codec: MainConcept H.264 Video (given)

    TV Standard: NTSC

    Frame Width = 1920 pixels

    Frame Height = 1080 pixels

    Frame Rate = 59.94 (based on your video properties that you just posted)

    Field Order = None (Progressive) grayed out (given)

    Pixel Aspect Ratio = Square Pixels

    Profile = Main

    Level = 5.1

    Bitrate Encoding = VBR, 2 Pass

    Target Bitrate = 32 Mbps (megabits per second)

    Maximum Bitrate = 40 Mbps (megabits per second)

    Start with those bitrate and increase, determining whether increases in the bitrate improve quality to any extent (watch the file size with these bitrate increases)

     

    ATR

    My saved user preset is almost the same.  Where different is:

     

    Yours is:  Pixel Aspect Ratio = Square Pixels

      Mine is:  Widescreen 16x9

    Yours is:  Level = 5.1

      Mine is:  4.2

    Yours is:  Bitrate Encoding = VBR, 2 Pass

      Mine is:  VBR, 1 Pass

     

    I don't know what the visable differences on playback might be, but it will be interesting to try yours out.

     

    Bill

     
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    May 5, 2013 3:53 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    A.T. Romano wrote:

     

    Based on my experiences, you are not going to get a 1080p60 upload to YouTube if you try to do the upload from within the Premiere Elements 11 Publish+Share/Online/YouTube. The presets via that route are non adjustable and best = 1920 x 1080 at 29.97 frames per second.

     

    What I have tried is the upload of the AVCHD.mp4 (1920 x 1080 at 60 progressive frames per second) at the YouTube web site. That turned out fairly well. Worth giving it a try for your Premiere Elements 11 AVCHD.mp4 (1920 x 1080 at 60 progressive frames per second) file. In one case, YouTube offered a pop up to video stablize one of my videos. I did not expect that. Reminder, whatever you send, YouTube converts it to flash video as far as I know.

     

     

    ATR

    The YouTube experience seems to need a balance between visual picture quality and upload efficiencey.  

     

    One of the things I like about PrE is, that once you have a good project put together, there are optimized outputs for various ways to view the production.  For YouTube, I like to use the "YouTube Wide Screen HD" preset under the AVCHD preset drop down menu.  It creates a file on my computer that I then use the YouTube provided uploader that will run in the background while I do other things.  Using the uploader built into PrE limits the video length to 8 minutes, but worse stops me from doing anything in PrE. 

     

    YouTube is good at making the videos very viewable on a computer screen.  If you want to avoid having YouTube trancode your work for some reason, there are other ways of delivering the production.  Vimeo has an option for downloading the origninal upload for viewers that want that. 

     

    Bill

     
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    May 5, 2013 4:23 PM   in reply to whsprague

    Bill

     

    Replying to your post #15

     

    One of the perks of uploading to YouTube at the YouTube web site using your video saved to hard drive is that you can take advantage of the YouTube extended time (over 15 minutes) which you do not get if you had used the direct upload of the video from within the Premiere Elements (Publish+Share/Online/YouTube).

     

    Why are you limited to 8 minutes with your direct upload of your Timeline to YouTube from with Premiere Elemens (Publish+Share/Online/YouTube)? The limit is shown as:

    File Size/Duration: 2.0 GB/15 min, 0.00 sec

     

    Thanks for sharing your observations. Very interesting and helpful and called my attention to the YouTube export choice under Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD which I often overlook and use alternative means.

     

    ATR

     
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    May 5, 2013 4:34 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    A.T. Romano wrote:

     

    Why are you limited to 8 minutes with your direct upload of your Timeline to YouTube from with Premiere Elemens (Publish+Share/Online/YouTube)? The limit is shown as:

    File Size/Duration: 2.0 GB/15 min, 0.00 sec

     

    ATR

    Perhaps I have forgotten the exact YouTube time limit.  It used to be less than now.  I think I remember 8 minutes. 

     

    I've read that when PrE11 was being coded, they matched the internal limits with the YouTube limits at the time.  Around the time of PrE11's release, YouTube changed the length limit.  If you YouTubes are short, the PrE11 internal loader works fine.  If they are longer than whatever the limit was, PrE hangs without a lot of explaination.  Exporting to an external file is faster, works better, does not involve the internal limit and does not tie up your compter.

     
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    May 5, 2013 4:41 PM   in reply to whsprague

    Bill,

     

    In reply to your post #14

     

    Looking forward to your results.

     

    With regard to Level set in the customized preset dialog of Advanced Button/Video Tab of the export preset, I have found for a variety of export types where I am adjusting the Advanced Button/Video Tab settings that the frame rate cannot be set to higher level without a high enough Level set. In fact, the following error message appears...

     

    ProfileLevelError.JPG

     

    So, in those instances, I increase the Level set according so that I can type in the wanted values for frame size or have them placed automatically by the set of the Level. Another habit that I have is leaving the Frame Width and Frame Height unlinked in that customized presets dialog under Advanced Button/Video Tab.

     

    I have been concentrating on Video Tab in my comments. But I do check out settings for Advanced Button/Audio Tab and Multiplexing Tab as indicated or applicable.

     

    ATR

     
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    May 5, 2013 6:25 PM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    Yoy are over my head.  I'm out of here.  You're expertice exceeds anything I can offer or help with.  Please take the helm.

     
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    May 6, 2013 9:52 AM   in reply to i_am_cipher

    i_am_cipher wrote:

     

    I do have one more question. Is there any way to change your project settings once you start?

    when i first started I didn't even notice I had to pick settings when i imported  and already started to edit and cut quite agood chuck of my video, then realized my mistake.

     

     

    You cannot change settings after the project is started.  You can only start over with a new project if you want differents settings.

     

    In version 11 settings are picked automatically.  The trick is to drag the most important piece of footage into your timeline first.  It then picks the best it has for realtime preview and it should match your footage  You can, as an option, force it to a project preset at the opening screen, but unless there is a reason, don't.

     

    The project settings primarily effect the real time preview while you are editing.  The do have some effect on the Publish and Share process, but the production is trancoded or rendered separately and again based on setting you create in Publish and Share.  Concequenly, less than perfect preview may not show up in the final product at all.  For example if you have some complicated effects or adjustments the computer works has hard as it can in "real time" to show you what you're doing.  At output time, in can take the time to go through frame by frame and incorporate the effects or adjustments.  Depending on the computer it can take two or three times the length of the production to render.  Sometimes even longer.  For example, the Stabilizer effect is amazingly slow!

     

    Bill

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 6, 2013 11:05 AM   in reply to i_am_cipher

    i_am_cipher

     

    Thanks for your follow up.

     

    I just noticed the latest posts in your thread and would like to comment on your question about changing the project preset of a project after you or the program (as in the case of Premiere Elements 11) has set it.

     

    The Adobe party line (as mentioned by Bill) is a flat no can do.

     

    I have not tried this in Premiere Elements 11 Windows yet, but the answer has been Yes, not No,  to that question and details of that have been reported here and elsewhere for doing that under certain conditions. The basics for this involve editing the Notepad document of the project.prel file saved to the computer hard drive.

     

    What is your current project preset and to what would you like it change to without having to start a new project?

     

    How far into the current project are you? Is this a NTSC or PAL project.

     

    If interested, I will look into this in your specific situation and report back with details.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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