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Boycott Creative Cloud?

May 7, 2013 12:41 PM

If you haven't heard, CS6 is the last CS version. From now on, you have to rent your applications via the Creative Cloud. I don't like the new subscription model. I have bought every CS upgrade since version 1, but it looks like CS6 is the end for me, even if it means keeping an old computer around just to run CS6 applications.

 

Perhaps Adobe would change its mind in a few months if most everyone avoided signing up for the subscription. In any case, they've created a real opportunity for competitors.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 5:40 PM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    Don't know about a boycott, but I'm not subscribing. I'm a serious photography hobbyist, I typically upgrade Lightroom whenever it updates and I upgrade Photoshop every couple of years. No more; the prices are too high. I've read similar comments from other hobbyist users, and I suspect there's a lot more of us than there are pros. Maybe Adobe thinks they can afford to lose the hobby market. Adios, Adobe.

     

    This is irksome. My birthday is coming up, and I was working on seeing if SWMBO would spring for the Photoshop CS6 upgrade for a gift. Then I discover this crap.

     

    This is a great opportunity for some company. Perhaps Creative Cloud will be Adobe's Windows 8.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 6:01 PM   in reply to aardvarkie

    Boycott? Well, I won't call it that, but this is pretty much the last straw for me.

     

    I've been a PS user and fan since PS 3 on a pc and have upgraded every step of the way...increasingly grudginly as the price rose and the ability to put it on my imac and 2 macbooks was reduced to 2 only, then the prices started soaring, then online only (not really a problem for me), now subscription only --- no *&^%$#@# way.

     

    What's sad is that i used to get really excited about a new version, new tools, and waited with baited breath for the release. Somewhere along the way, I started feeling that the whole event was completely a case of adobe trying to overcontrol and over charge...but there were no alternatives and now there are.

     

    The only thing that got me to upgrade to CS6 was ACR... Not enough any longer. Among other cameras I own are a couple of the new fuji x series and ACR is not as good as 2 other raw converters - so I'm already using multiple raw converters.

     

    It IS sad...adobe was once a great company.

     

    Tom O'Connell

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 6:57 PM   in reply to SausalitoDog

    What raw converters are you using?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 8:15 PM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    bottom line tells me they may rethink... Watch the stock and let's see.

     

    Screen shot 2013-05-07 at 5.08.10 PM.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 8:21 PM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    I love Adobe software, but this is rediculous! Renting software?

     

    How thoroughlly disgusting. CC is a great idea for certain agencies and groups that work collaboratively no doubt about it. But freelancers, independent artists, hobbyists, and even educators are going to be hit hard by this. Two different univeristy art department directors who I have spoken to about this issue have both said that they will now have to postpone upgrading their computer labs as a result of the new liscencing issues.

     

    As a working professional, I have no problem asking my company to throw down a few $1,000 every few years for the latest release. But there would be no way I could afford the CC applications I use everyday if I had to pay for it myself based on Adobe's subscription model, if I were a freelancer or student.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 8:23 PM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    Add me to the list. I can't afford as a hobbyist to pay 360 dollars per year for PS going forward. Will have to find cheaper alternative when CS5 becomes truly obsolete. Very sad to see this happen but corporations are just getting greedier every year.

    Rgrds=Ross

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 8:26 PM   in reply to rgsalinger46

    You can still upgrade to CS6 before it's too late. and then at least you'll have that. They may relent if the stock goes down! I believe they will. this is creating such bad blood.

    rgsalinger46 wrote:

     

    Add me to the list. I can't afford as a hobbyist to pay 360 dollars per year for PS going forward. Will have to find cheaper alternative when CS5 becomes truly obsolete. Very sad to see this happen but corporations are just getting greedier every year.

    Rgrds=Ross

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2013 1:19 AM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    JUST SAY NO

     

    Boycott Creative Cloud

     

    It doesn't take very long to work out that for most users that Creative Cloud will at least double the cost of using Photoshop if your the user who upgrades every second version (about every 2 years). OK for some people Creative Cloud make financial sense but if you do the maths even the person who has no Adobe programs and starts renting the Creative Cloud suite will end up paying more in 5 years or so.

     

    The worst thing about Creative Cloud is once your on it you can never stop paying for it because if you do loss access to edit your files.

     

    We should all tell Adobe no to Creative Cloud this is all about Adobes bottom line if people don’t join, Adobe will have to rethink.

     

    Contact Adobe tell them why you wont be signing up for Creative Cloud.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2013 1:27 AM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    Will not be signing up. Spent over 2 hours on the phone to India today who could tell me NOTHING. If Adobe is farming out their customers to India then Adobe is just trying to rake in profits.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2013 1:33 AM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    Photoshop is awesome and I use it every day. However I am now looking at alternative software providers who are not greedy money grabbers. Sad to see you go Photoshop. You were once loved by so many.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2013 5:22 AM   in reply to donekneenopics

    What alternatives are people looking at? I haven't managed to find any 64 bit graphics applications (for Windows). What alternative raw converters are people using?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2013 6:07 AM   in reply to walterono

    @Walterono

     

    PhotoLine, for Windows (there's a Mac version too) installs both a 32-bit and 64-bit version on 64-bit Windows.

     

    It is a dated looking interface. Frequently updated. Updates can (and have) included new features during a major revision number. the two brothers who do the programming concentrate on squashing the few bugs that creep in and adding features rather than redoing the GUI. It has been around for years and years.

     

    Mike

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2013 6:46 AM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    Count me into the boycott. I am so sick and tired of this greedy world. I, like so many others. am a hobbiest photographer but, even before the photography, I have used Adobe PS since its inception, even when there was no layers. I am an anatomist and used it long ago to put make images that I used in my teaching. I have always loved Photoshop and felt comfortable with what I thought was a trusting company with their long list of customers being of interest. Now, I, too, feel like they just want to gauge their custmers for a lot more money. I do have CS6 but will be looking for something else if Adobe follows through with the CC S**T. I am tired of being a slave to all of their greed. First they pull you in with a nice program and then kick the legs out from under you.

     

    I hope that all of the Adobe people are proud of themselves.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2013 6:57 AM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    Here's a novel idea.  Dust off your old 35mm slr and load it with black and white, shoot it, soup it, run it thru your dusty old enlarger, smell the stop bath....and become a photograher again. Somewhere Ansul Adams is smiling.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2013 7:04 AM   in reply to 57Patty57

    Sorry, I am too old to spend too much time in the dark. That time will be coming faster than I want it to. I might have to shoot only jpegs though if RAW convertors will be a problem. I have experience with the old methods but had rather stay in the present. Dealing with greedy people is never pleasant for me. Thanks for your suggestion though. Be my guest to spend time in the dark room and be happy.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2013 7:18 PM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    Creative Cloud can go to hell. I will never rent Photoshop. Adobe is out of touch with a large swath of its users.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2013 9:53 AM   in reply to uhanepono

    I believe there are competing products that are being funded like crazy after their announcement.  I'm NOT excited about this and if they want to keep me as a customer, they should recant... and sooooon.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2013 10:17 AM   in reply to uhanepono

    Do we know how long the PS CS6 upgrade will be available ?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2013 6:56 PM   in reply to Tom Murray 1

    Tom Murray 1 wrote:

     

    Do we know how long the PS CS6 upgrade will be available ?

    I work in IT Sales and was in a meeting with Adobe last week; they said CS6 would remain available for the foreseeable future.

     

    Adobe has also committed to making CS6 compatible with the next version of OSX and Windows, which we will see this year for OSX, and probably within the next 12 months for "Windows 8 Blue," or whatever it'll end up being called. So, I would count on CS6 being available for at least the next year.

     

    The biggest problem I think you'll have, especially if you're running a Mac, is how long the OS itself will support the software! If you ever look at any of Chris Cox's posts you'll see that Adobe has been fighting a somewhat losing battle against OSX bugs and glitches for years, so who can tell when they'll just throw in the towel and concentrate on CC.

     

    Windows is an entirely different matter; if you're on Win7 64-bit I'd expect you to be happily running CS6 for 5+ years... plenty of time for a competitor to get in the game!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2013 7:09 PM   in reply to Gary Politzer

    Gary Politzer wrote:

     

    Creative Cloud can go to hell. I will never rent Photoshop. Adobe is out of touch with a large swath of its users.

    Adobe has made, I believe, a conscious decision to walk away from the enthusiast/semi-pro photographer market, and concentrate on the design studios and agencies; Hell, they're even ticking off some of the pro's!

     

    I was talking to one of my clients today, a pro photographer who, believe me, doesn't have to worry about the cost of the software, and he was absolutely outraged by what Adobe have done. He said that if he could work entirely in Lightroom, he'd dump Photoshop in a heartbeat, unfortunately that's not an option for him.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2013 8:38 PM   in reply to rgsalinger46

    Change.org has one petition against the cloud that has 12,500 signers. CC has 500,000 signed up already.  Money talks. The higher fee of the CC will more than offset any loss from people who don't subscribe. Adobe is a business and it doesn't care if some of you go to hell.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 2:08 AM   in reply to pf22

    pf22 wrote:

     

    I was talking to one of my clients today, a pro photographer who, believe me, doesn't have to worry about the cost of the software, and he was absolutely outraged by what Adobe have done. He said that if he could work entirely in Lightroom, he'd dump Photoshop in a heartbeat, unfortunately that's not an option for him.

     

    So, was this a rational outrage? Or is he just outraged at change? There's a difference...a lot of "outrage" is based on little or wrong info from people who haven't even tried a subscription model. Adobe has made it pretty cheap to test this for the next year, $9.99/month. I suggest people stock up on CS6 and then consider doing a subscription to Photoshop CC for a year and see for themselves whether or not a subscription model works for them...particularly if the cost isn't an issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 3:13 AM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Jeff Schewe wrote:

     

    …particularly if the cost isn't an issue.

     

     
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    May 18, 2013 6:39 AM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    I loathe subscriptions.  Adobe can count me out.  Can I still buy an upgrade of PS CS6?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 8:49 AM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    They've already removed the choices, Mike.  A company the size of Adobe can't change direction in a heartbeat, so you may need to accept that it is what it is for now. 

     

    At the end of a year, maybe Adobe will say, "Y'know, we could make another hundred million dollars if we just sell a new kind of perpetual license".

     

    It's up to everyone to determine whether the products are worth what Adobe's asking, paid in the way they're asking, NOW.  I think Jeff's advice is good, frankly.  People should make decisions based on value and from a position of knowledge, rather than knee-jerk reactions.

     

    Photoshop CS6 has only been out a year.  If Adobe hadn't changed strategy, you'd be using it for another 6 months or more anyway before a new version was released.  So try Photoshop CC for a month for free.  If you don't perceive the new CC features (which are interesting though perhaps not overwhelming) as having sufficient value, don't act; just keep using Photoshop CS6.  If you do find the features valuable enough, subscribe.  It just doesn't seem all that complex to me.

     

    Regarding organizing a boycott, when it comes down to it if you think anyone is really going to act out of anything other than short term self-interest, you're probably mistaken.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 8:56 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    There have surely been thousands upon thousands of posts written on countless geek/photography/technology boards over the past couple of weeks about Adobe's decision to move to this perpetual subscription-only 'Cloud' solution, and I'm not gonna rehash everything I've written in detail (but I will include links to some of it), but the big-ticket items of what most people think is behind the 'Creative Cloud' are as follows:

     

    1. Adobe has pretty much hit the wall with what improvements they can add to all of the Creative Suite apps and realized that a large numbers of users were inclined to forego upgrading on a regular basis because they were seeing very little benefit in what was being included in the latest updates. This is not to say that Adobe isn't advancing the programs, but with most apps so bloated already with features that a lot of its users have no need for, the consumers desire for even more features is frightfully small. Revising the Smart Sharpen filter a fifth time or rolling out 'Bokeh Blur v10' aren't exactly the kind of sexy features to make people want to toss a $200 upgrade fee at!

     

    2. Because of #1, Adobe has seen it's cash flow diminished. They tried to force users to stick to the upgrade track by insisting them to at least be using Photoshop CS4 before being allowed to move up to CS6, but after about a year this hasn't filled their bank account as quickly as they had hoped, so they figured a subscription-only software license was the only was to go.

     

    3. Adobe has promised more 'real-time' updates to its applications as being a major reason we should all love the Cloud, but as referenced in #1, with the apps already so filled to the brim with tools, filters and widgets, most users are left wondering what else do they really need? And even if Adobe comes out with a few new toys down the road, will the ongoing & forever subscription be worth it?

     

    4. Users are also worried that with a subscription-only plan and Adobe assured of a never-ending stream of cash, what will be their impetus to move forward at all? Nobody suggests they will remain totally stagnant, but since there won't really be the need to continue to advance the applications in order to entice users to keep paying for upgrades, it's not a stretch to think the software engineers won't have the same motivation to continually roll out earth-shattering gizmo's either. And without those earth-shattering upgrades, where is the added value to a never-ending subscription model?

     

    5. Far and away the main bone of contention has been the idea that if you decide at some time down the road to stop paying your subscription to The Cloud, you will no longer be able to access the files you had made during the time you had been a subscriber. Sure, if you only have JPEGs or flattened PSD files, you can get at them, but if you're like most people who save your edited files as LAYERED TIFFs or PSD's, you are simply out of luck! And don't go thinking Corel or the GIMP is gonna help you out, because trying to open a file that contains any layers with smart objects, etc., will get deleted. Assuming you're a young professional photographer now, and you spend 30 or so years paying into this never-ending subscription scheme, at the time you decide to hang up your cameras, if you ever want to do anything with your lifes work you will still Adobe's millstone around your neck. The argument that this will just have to become the cost of doing business is simply wrong. Nobody believes Adobe's current projected cost of 'only' $20/month will stay at that level for very long, so you had better budget for what will be a sizable monthly tax that will have to be paid long into your retirement if you don't want your work to be nothing more than useless digital trash.

     

    Anyway...those are the broad strokes. I've written a few more things over at Damn Ugly Photography on the whole Cloud Controversy, some of which is here:

     

    http://wp.me/przPb-1Vp

     

    ..and here:

     

    http://wp.me/przPb-1VH

     

    ...and here:

     

    http://wp.me/przPb-1Wf

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    May 18, 2013 9:26 AM   in reply to Brad_Trent

    Brad_Trent wrote:

     

    it's not a stretch to think the software engineers won't have the same motivation to continually roll out earth-shattering gizmo's either.

     

    If you're familiar with Photoshop you'll know that we don't really need more earth-shattering gizmos so much as we need the ones they've already got to work right, better, and completely.  E.g.,

     

    • Filters that have never managed to be updated to embrace 16 bits/channel, the ability to use filters in more ways.
    • Filters that need updating to support modern displays, with modern UI features.
    • Reported bugs that go unsolved from major release to major release to major release.
    • Refinements so that fancy things work more consistently and usably.
    • Addition of missing functionality, such as the ability to create arbitrary 3D objects.

     

    From my perspective the things they're doing in Photoshop CC are the right things - upsampling that produces better quality results, sharpening that works better, cropping that works better, Camera Raw features to speed up correction of image deficiencies and distortion, ability to apply Camera Raw functions directly to documents, 3D environment enhancement, bugfixes.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 9:43 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel...as I said nobody suggests they will remain totally stagnant, but human nature and corporate culture often go hand in hand. If a company has little to worry about with regard to where the money is coming from, that can filter down to the guys who hafta come up with product development. I'm glad you feel Photoshop is moving forward in a positive way, but there are plenty of users who haven't been thinking the same thing. And there is no denying that it's that lack of excitment is why so many people haven't upgraded to the most recent versions of Photoshop.

     

    Call me a pessimist, but why should I believe Adobe will continue to develop their software as vigorously once they have everyone hooked to The Cloud?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    May 18, 2013 9:51 AM   in reply to Brad_Trent

    Brad_Trent wrote:

     

    lack of excitment is why so many people haven't upgraded to the most recent versions of Photoshop.

     

    I question your given.

     

    This is very subjective, but it seems to me the majority of the questions here on the forum are by Photoshop CS6 users.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 10:56 AM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Jeff Schewe wrote:
    So, was this a rational outrage? Or is he just outraged at change? There's a difference...

    I would say "rational." Like many out there, he doesn't want to "rent" the software he depends upon to earn a living, he wants to own it. And like all pro-photographers, he started out as a hobbyist, and is disgusted by the "you stop payin' you got nuthin'" component of CC. He also laughed at Adobe's promises of endless development and new "stuff," he'd just like them to fix the bugs and issues that have been in the software release after release. Unfortunately he's a hard-core Mac user and knows that at some point he'll have issues with his OS and CS6, so he's seriously thinking about maintaining one of his current CS6 workstations when he moves to CC, as he knows he'll have to eventually. He sounds perfectly rational to me!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 10:57 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    If the "majority" of Adobe software users had been upgrading regularly, Adobe would have not felt compelled to switch to the subscription mode.

     

    In the case of Photoshop, I upgraded to the last several versions exclusively on the strength of ACR improvements.

     

    As reality gradually sinks in, I get the feeling that the future of computing for the masses is at stake here.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 11:49 AM   in reply to PhotoRoy1

    Can you provide the link to the petition please. It does not show up in a search on their site. I would love to be able to have that link to forward to others. Many don't know about the link. thanks.

    PhotoRoy1 wrote:

     

    Change.org has one petition against the cloud that has 12,500 signers. CC has 500,000 signed up already.  Money talks. The higher fee of the CC will more than offset any loss from people who don't subscribe. Adobe is a business and it doesn't care if some of you go to hell.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 11:57 AM   in reply to uhanepono

    https://www.change.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=adobe

     

    More than enough Adobe petitions.

     

    Mike

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 12:07 PM   in reply to uhanepono
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 12:39 PM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    Adobe is more of an environment than an app. We have to leave that environment to see that it's so and to know there are plenty of other apps that do the same things and then some.

     

    cobbling together all of Photoshop functions in other apps.

    For HDR = photomatix (better than ps!) and others

    For photo retouch and efects, (bokey, b&w etc) = Perfect photo suite (as a stand alone) , gimp, photoline, pixelmator and others

    For panoramas = hugin, and others

    for general photo manipulation = photoline, gimp, pixelmator and others

    For painting and art = corel painter, art rage, and many others.

     

    Most of these apps open PSD files and some even will save in that formal if it's what you want. Tifs are a better bet.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 12:43 PM   in reply to Brad_Trent

    Thanks so much for the link! Please. all those who want to vote with their clicks share this link and sign and spread the word it's out there.

    Brad_Trent wrote:

     

    This is the one you're looking for...

     

    https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate- the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

     

    BT

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 12:55 PM   in reply to uhanepono

    While I appreciate the sentiment, professional photographers don't work in a world like you describe. We work with designers, retouchers and collateral industry professionals who all use Adobe products. Jumping from Corel to Gimp to Pixelmator is hardly a solution.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2013 1:11 PM   in reply to Mike Wickham

    Boycott Adobe and use what?  Corel products? The truth is, there's no program in the world like Photoshop.  Adobe has the market leading software in a number of important segments so if you boycott Adobe, you will make your own work much harder if not impossible.  I've tried quite a few programs over the last several years and nothing is nearly as good as Adobe products.  Generally, nothing even comes close.  Photoshop has no competition. Illustrator has some competition like CorelDraw.  There are possibilities there but you'll become incompatible with the rest of the world and never properly open a pdf file without either Illustrator or Acrobat.  So while I agree with you that I've no interest in simply paying Adobe for the rest of my career, I haven't found anything more than one off programs that I can use for some isolated creative work.  But it still gets processed for production/printing with Adobe products.  Until someone steps up and tries to compete with Adobe, a lot of us are stuck.

     
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