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LorcanPMiller
Currently Being Moderated

PE11 Rip from DVD->putting a menu on->burning that to DVD ruins quality

May 17, 2013 1:37 PM

First, I've read some things here and there, but can't find the exact same scenarios in other posts, although I'm sure this is a fairly common problem (SIAP):

 

Here is a summary of the issue:

 

1) Our guy produced a video for our organization and gave me a DVD-R of the 11 minute project. I imported this into PE11 and on the timeline it says .VOB. Now on the desktop, the 481 mb VTS_01_1 file properties state that it is 720x480, 29 fps... although I find it strange that the clip as imported into PE11 in properties in the project assets window says it's 23.976 frame rate. Making things more confusing (don't even know if any of this matters) is that in an instance of Share->Export to Computer, the "source" says the video is 1920x1080, 29.97 fps. Don't know if any of this matters...

 

2) Anyways, the reason I ripped it is for the sole purpose of creating a menu on the DVD. So I picked a "HD" template, imported my own JPEG on to it, then attempted as best I could to erase all the buttons except for "Play Movie." AGain, not sure if the Menu functionality has anything to do with the issue, but I figured I'd mention it.

 

3) I've tried several times burning the video with both DVD-R and +R using both NTSC Dolby and Widescreen Dolby to burn to DVD.

 

The resulting DVD has a degraded, fuzzy image and the black frame lines at bottom and top seem to bounce and jitter.

 

The image on the original DVD is clearly HD and looks great, without any bouncing, jittering, etc. Also, the DVD app i used to watch the original on my computer is the same as I used to watch my own burned DVD... So PE11 has clearly degraded the image, something is going on in the export.

 

Another thing worth mentioning is that as I look at the video footage in PE11 on full screen, I can see that even in PE11, the video quality is not the same as the original DVD and there are obvious artifacts and just nonsense in the picture... Not necessarily as bad as the burn, but similar.

 

I've done a little reading on these forums about .VOB files... I don't fully understand them. Is it that the image is messed up from the beginning with an import from DVD? IS there a way to do what I want (take hiqual video from a DVD, put a menu on it, then burn it back onto DVD?) with PE11? Or is the only way to make a burn from the original source file before it was burned the first place?

 

computer specs:

lenovo P500

Intel Core i7 3520M 2.90 gHz

8gb RAM

windows 8 64-bit

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2013 2:18 PM   in reply to LorcanPMiller

    Welcome to the forum.

     

    First, let's talk about what a DVD-Video can, and cannot be. This article goes into some good detail: http://www.videohelp.com/dvd

     

    Now, starting with the FPS aspect, the material will be 29.97 FPS, though if the 3:2 pulldown has been applied, can be 23.976, but with that 3:2 pulldown, plays back at 29.97 FPS. I would be very surprised if that VOB contains 23.976 FPS material.

     

    Next, when a DVD-Video has been authored and burned, then the original video material has already been Transcoded to MPEG-2 DVD, which is a highly compressed video.

     

    DVD-Video will most commonly be 720 x 480 (NTSC), though by the DVD-specs., it can be smaller. It cannot be larger. Hence, Importing it into an HD Project will NOT improve anything, and especially if the desired output is to be back to DVD-Video.

     

    If all that is required is to add/change a Menu in an existing DVD-Video, then it might be best to use a program, like ReJig, to break apart the first VOB, where the Menu(s) is/are, strip out the MPEG-2 DVD from that, change the Menu, then reuse the MPEG-2 DVD material, with no more Transcoding. There are other programs, and some might be even better.

     

    If one Imports a VOB (remember, it has already been compressed to MPEG-2 DVD), and then outputs to a DVD-Video, the Timeline WILL be Transcoded to MPEG-2 DVD once again, costing quality.

     

    If one IS going to Import an existing VOB, then I would start with an NTSC (or PAL if one lives in PAL-land, and is working with a PAL VOB) DV Project, in either Standard 4:3, or Widescreen 16:9, depending on what form that original VOB used. Then, when the new Menu has been added (any Menu(s) and navigation in that first VOB will not Import, so one would be starting from zero), and navigation setup, just Burn to Disc (or Burn to Folder), and live with that second compression step in the Transcoding of the Timeline to MPEG-2 DVD.

     

    Good luck, and if you have any questions, or need clarification, please do not hesitate to ask.

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2013 3:18 PM   in reply to LorcanPMiller

    >So I picked a "HD" template

     

    Bad choice... an HD template is ONLY to create a BluRay, not a DVD

     

    >The image on the original DVD is clearly HD

     

    Wrong... by specification, a DVD is Standard Definition, not High Definition... is NOT possible to have HiDef play on a standard DVD

     

    There IS a way to put "no more than" 20 minutes of HiDef on a DVD... but it will not play in a DVD player, only in a BluRay player

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2013 5:08 PM   in reply to LorcanPMiller

    LorcanPMiller

     

    Please get a MediaInfo readout of your VOB at the onset to determine what you have, especially standard or widescreen.

    http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en

    Special Interest: Frame size, Frame rate, Display 4:3 or 16:9, Scan Type and Scan Order for which I am expecting Interlaced and Lower Field First.

     

    Here is my take on your situation.

     

    1. The Canon 6D can capture 1080p video (1920 x 1080 16:9 at 29.97 or 30 frames per second), but from what you wrote somewhere along the line someone put that through a video "authoring" program to convert it into DVD-VIDEO format on a DVD disc (720 x 480). At this point, we need to know standard or widescreen. Both standard and widescreen will be 720 x 480, but the widescreen will have a 16:9 flag included to stretch the video for display after encoding.

     

    Question:

    a. What is on that DVD disc....just a file name VTS_01_1 (file size 481 MB) or two folders named OpenDVD and VIDEO_TS? If you have a file, for Premiere Elements 11, you would use Add Media/Files and Folders to get the file in Project Assets. If you have the DVD disc in the DVD burner tray, you would use Add Media/DVD Camera or Computer Drive to rip the VOB and get the VOB into the project.

     

    b.Your project is going to get messed up and confusing, if you let the program set the project preset for you. You will most likely end up with the default NTSC AVCHD Full HD1080i30 which is inappropriate for your project. So, before thinking or acting on Get Media....open a new project, go to File Menu/New/Project and set the project preset in the New Project dialog for NTSC DV Standard or NTSC DV Widescreen depending on what you find beforehand about the properties of your VOB MediaInfo Then use Add Media/and the appropriate choice based on what I wrote above about VOB already ripped vs DVD-VIDEO ripping.

     

    c. When you have your VOB on the TImeline with the appropriate project setting, right click the file in Project Assets and verify Premiere Elements 11's interpretation of the file frame rate and other to determine if it agrees with the MediaInfo readout. It would be very unusual if there was a differnce, but...

     

    d. Whether you have a NTSC or PAL project, all the SD DVD Templates have a frame size of 720 x 576 (PAL sizing). The ones tagged HD have a 1440 x 1080 frame size. Right now I would advise you to stay with the SD ones, but not be afraid to experience with a HD choice if it appealing and see what happening during encoding.

     

    e. In all this, you did not say what the duration is of this 481 MB VOB file. The standard DVD disc is spec'd at 4.7 GB/120 min. That 4.7 GB in reality is 4.3 GB. You will frequently see the recommendation "for best results, do not exceed 90 minutes on this standard type disc". When you have your DVD disc in the DVD burner tray and are in the burn dialog of Publish+Share/Disc/DVD make sure to check the Quality Area of the burn dialog for the Space Required and Bitrate reading (8.00 Mbps is the max reading).

     

    Based on what you wrote, I suspect that most of your problems were related to incorrect project settings. By the way, if you want to get rid of a menu button text, most of the time double click the text to bring up the Change Text dialog, highlight the text there, hit the delete key of the computer, then hit the space bar or enter key.

     

    If you are replacing the menu's audio, max 30 sec with looping. If you use motion buttons in the menu, max 4.9 seconds. After you get the details of the project setup OK, we can focus in more on the menus...number of Timeline markers etc, and customization of the menus from within the program.

     

    Lots of details. The answers and successes will be in the details. All the contributors here have given you a lot of ideas for exploration and experimentation.

     

    Please do not hesitate to ask if you need clarification on anything that I have written.

     

    Looking forward to learning of your progress.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2013 8:35 PM   in reply to LorcanPMiller

    >crisp video quality from the original DVD is lost, and can't figure out why that's happening

     

    When you first create a DVD, you are compressing your source file as part of the process (example... one hour of DV video is "about" 13Gig large... that 13G is compressed into MPEG2 [which is what is inside a VOB] to be able to fit on a 4.7Gig DVD

     

    When you import/rip video from a DVD, and create a new DVD, you are compressing again... and that 2nd generation of compression WILL not look as good as the 1st generation

     

    ADDED - Why you should not edit mpeg/vob http://tangentsoft.net/video/mpeg/edit.html

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 12:22 PM   in reply to LorcanPMiller

    >adobe product like the Womble MPEG Video Wizard

     

    I think Womble does "smart" encoding... where an original file is NOT encoded again as long as you do not make any changes... so the quality of output is the same as whatever quality is there when you input the file

     

    As far as I know, Adobe does not make a program that does smart encoding... but, I could be wrong and someone else will give you a program name

     
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