Skip navigation
joe bloe premiere 4,391 posts
Dec 6, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

CS6 / AVCHD / Spanned Clip Bug / What Cameras And Media Types Are Affected?

Jul 12, 2013 8:48 AM

This known bug in CS6 has been well documented regarding the potential symptoms, known issues and transcoding workarounds.

 

Audio and Video glitches | AVCHD footage

 

It would also be very helpful for CS6 users to be able to specifically identify the problematic cameras and/or media types in order to make informed decisions when purchasing a camera, or when receiving media files with the intent of editing in Premiere CS6.

 

If there is a definitive list of specific camera manufacturers / models, and/or media types that are affected by this bug, I have not been able to find it.

 

Of course this bug has been resolved in the June 17th release of the Creative Cloud Subscription update. It remains to be seen if the fix will be back-ported to CS6.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Cameras confirmed as not exhibiting the bug:

 

Panasonic GH2

Sony HDR SR-12

 

Cameras confirmed that do have the bug:

 

Canon Vixia HF G10

 
Replies 1 2 3 ... 6 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 8:01 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Unfortunately, there another AVCHD bug which apparently hasn't been addressed:  very laggy AVCHD and AVC-I time-line performance, as reported in a number of other threads.

     

    Spanned clips can at least be transcoded.  But nothing can be done with the lag problems, other than transcoding ALL footage.  OT this may be, but it's central to the editing of native AVCHD and AVC-I material, from the very same cameras.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 9:03 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    hello,

     

    i use canon hfs20 avchd cameras


    however, i still use 5.03 without any problems

    however, i was going to try out PPROcs6 but it doesn't offer avchd in the trial i was told

     

    i really appreciate jamesp2 chiming in with the 'other issue'...thanks

     

    i think John T Smith uses a similar camera to mine but i've lost what version of PPRO he uses...

     

    i may stick with 5.03 as my last update

     

    cheers, j

     

    ( i also don't want to be limited avchd cameras that work:  all cameras worked in 5.5

    now is cs6 only some cameras work, and now in cc all cameras are back to working again...)

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 9:21 AM   in reply to tfi productions 44

    now in cc all cameras are back to working again...)

    Joe, I completely agree that this thread should stay on topic and deal with what cameras and media types are affected (and not) by the CS6 AVCHD spanned media bug. But I think the following comment is appropriate for the context.

     

    I assume that the bug was not detected in Adobe quality control before the release of CS6 because the spanned clips they tested were from a camera/media type that is not affected. As someone else pointed out, they MUST have tested such clips. Edit: And I do not assume this is fixed in  CC until many, many users put their cameras to the test.

     

    I was a user affected the PDX10/PD150 problem that Premiere CS3 captured audio incorrectly because Sony changed their system on a very few cameras that could record 4 audio channels, and Premiere used a shortcut to determine what channel to capture. Scenalyzer Live, however, actually looked at the streams (or some such method), and worked flawlessly. I suspect similar issues here. So identifying cameras/media types is very useful.

     

    Since the bug is fixed in CC, I suspect that a more forthcoming Adobe could simply give us a) the list or b) the underlying problem that would help us - there are a lot of cameras out there. But since they haven't so far, I have to assume they will not do so now.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 9:37 AM   in reply to tfi productions 44

    tfi productions 44 wrote:

     

    however, i was going to try out PPROcs6 but it doesn't offer avchd in the trial i was told

     

    Hi tfi productions 44,

    All codecs are available in trial versions of Premiere Pro since CS5.5. Check it out.

     

    Thanks,

    Kevin

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 9:44 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Joe Bloe,

     

    Forgive me, but you're never going to get a reliable list of "safe" cameras.  Even assuming there's a camera which produces AVCHD spanned files which don't provoke the bug behavior, would you really stake a purchase or advise a client to shoot with camera x, because somebody here, who may not even know what a spanned clip is, says it works great?

     

    And are you really going to buy a camera to accommodate the shortcomings of an old version of PPro?  Is anyone?

     

    I jumped in because, for the life of me, I didn't understand why we're diverting attention from a big problem which isn't solved or even acknowledged, and which evidently affects all AVCHD and AVI-I footage, to a bug which Adobe has known of for a long time and at least claims to have solved. 

     

    Anyway, the lag is a big deal for me now, so maybe I'm too preocuppied by it.  By that's my rationale.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 9:49 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    joe bloe premiere wrote:

     

    Since the bug is fixed in CC, I suspect that a more forthcoming Adobe could simply give us a) the list or b) the underlying problem that would help us - there are a lot of cameras out there.

    I would settle for a) The List.

    But since they haven't so far, I have to assume they will not do so now.

    I guess we'll see.

     

    Hey JBP,

    I don't know of a specific list of cameras that exhibiit the issue. I can ask, though.

     

    Thanks,

    Kevin

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 10:06 AM   in reply to jamesp2

    jamesp2 wrote:

     

    I jumped in because, for the life of me, I didn't understand why we're diverting attention from a big problem which isn't solved or even acknowledged...

     

    Hi jamesp2,

    Steve Hoeg, an engineer on the Premiere Pro team has asked for reproducible cases on an earlier thread, so it has at least been acknowledged: http://forums.adobe.com/message/5337208#5337208

     

    It appears he needs more test cases with reproducible results. Feel free to file a bug report, if you have not already: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

     

    Thanks,
    Kevin

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 10:16 AM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    Kevin,

     

    Thanks, but unfortunately that thread (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5337208#5337208) also has two related but different bug reports, and it's not clear if both have registered with Adobe.

     

    One is reported by Stu S, which he documented with a video.  The other was described by Eric of ADK (and me, again) and would appear to be related to Stu's report, but describes different t-l behavior.

     

    I have indeed filed bug reports.  The fact that Eric sees the issue often, and with high horsepower, well-tuned systems, is I hope decisive.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 10:16 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 10:24 AM   in reply to jamesp2

    jamesp2 wrote:

     

    Kevin,

     

    Thanks, but unfortunately that thread (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5337208#5337208) also has two related but different bug reports, and it's not clear if both have registered with Adobe.

     

    One is reported by Stu S, which he documented with a video.  The other was described by Eric of ADK (and me, again) and would appear to be related to Stu's report, but describes different t-l behavior.

     

    I have indeed filed bug reports.  The fact that Eric sees the issue often, and with high horsepower, well-tuned systems, is I hope decisive.

     

    Hi james sp2,

    Have you posted a separate thread I can point engineering to? I seem to recall something about that. If so, let me know and I'll ask them to have a look. If not, create a new thread.

     

    Thanks for filing bug reports. I know that Eric has seen this issue, but we have to get a reproducible test case into the hands of the engineers. I'll try to help make that happen.

     

    Thanks,

    Kevin

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 10:35 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    I deliberately submitted the links to the posts, in which camera owners claimed they experienced the spanned clips bug.

    Does that mean they are 'confirmed problematic cameras'? Well, it depends...

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 10:44 AM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    Kevin,

     

    I first reported the issue here (hardware forum):

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/5160969#5160969

     

    Since then, however, I've confirmed that it's a bug apparently unique to AVCHD and AVI-I footage, and it's worse than I initially described it--move rapidly through the time-line cut by cut, and PPro stops responding altogether, and will take several seconds to update when you come to a stop. 

     

    Following up on Eric's observation (that he doesn't it see the lag with cineform), I transcodeed AVI-I to Avid DNxHD (keeping more or less the same data rate), and got instantaneous response on the time-line.  Also, the footage which causes lags in Premiere Pro doesn't do so in Edius.  This is a 3930K 32GB system.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 11:01 AM   in reply to tfi productions 44

    >i think John T Smith uses a similar camera to mine but i've lost what version of PPRO he uses

     

    Canon Vixia HFS100 and PPro 5.0.3 and I have never had problems (I have PPro CS6 but am not using it due to the bug)

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 11:20 AM   in reply to John T Smith

    John T Smith wrote:

     

    >i think John T Smith uses a similar camera to mine but i've lost what version of PPRO he uses

     

    Canon Vixia HFS100 and PPro 5.0.3 and I have never had problems (I have PPro CS6 but am not using it due to the bug)

    Just to confirm John: you have never tested spanned clips from your camera with CS6, right?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 11:26 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    I am not using PPro CS6 at all

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 11:28 AM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    I deliberately submitted the links to the posts, in which camera owners claimed they experienced the spanned clips bug.

     

    I don't believe the Panasonic thread is a valid case.  The OP stated he has troubles with import and audio, neither of which are the effects of the spanning clips bug.  Likely, something else was going on for that poster.  Also, at the end of the thread Christian posted "I have no issues with "spanned" AVCHD clips in PPro CS5 or CS6. Have AF100, AC130, HMC150...have previously used the HMC40 and HMC70 also....never an issue. 100's of hours of footage of the last few years, many clips 30 minutes or longer."

     

    I can also confirm no issues with GH2 media.

     

    We did get a poster who claimed to have the issue with the Panasonic AC130 (I think), but I was never able to get my hands on that media for testing here.

     

    Next week I'll be able to test spanned clips from the Panasonic HPX600, which shoots AVC-I to P2 cards.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 11:31 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    I have the problem with both of the Sony Handycams in my possession.  I'm not in front of them at the moment and don't know their respective model numbers off-hand.  But it's highly unlikely that one Sony would display the problem and one wouldn't.  Probably safe to assume all Sony Handycams are problematic under CS6.

     

    jas

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 11:39 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Direct quote from the original posts:

    We are using AVCHD footage from Pansonic cameras and if it spanned, the sound will be missing for much or all or the clip...

     

    We have both an HMC-150 and HMC-40, I think with the latest firmware. I have had issues with the footage from both cameras, but the footage in this case is from the HMC-40.

    And as I said, 'Does that mean they are 'confirmed problematic cameras'? Well, it depends...'

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 11:51 AM   in reply to John T Smith

    Last year built four DVDs (each hour long instructor lead classes), from footage from Canon Vixia HF100 and HF200 cameras. Takes were normally 1.5+ hours -- heavily spanned. Started the first DVD edit in CS5, finished it in CS6, and did the other three completely in CS6. Imported the clips letting PPro CS6 Media Browswer figure out how to link the individual AVCHD files back into clips. No problems.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 12:20 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Probably safe to assume all Sony Handycams are problematic under CS6.

    Good info!

    Well, I have several Handycams thaq shoot Digital 8! As I noted above, Sony has added weird stuff at times that does not follow. Since we don't know what causes the problem, let's make sure we are carefully tracking at least specific cameras that a user knows produces the problem.

     

    I agree that it is likely that all Sony Handycams may show the same problem, but let's get 2 or 3 different models on the list before reaching that conclusion.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 12:28 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    Stan Jones wrote:

     

    Well, I have several Handycams thaq shoot Digital 8!

    And obviously, those Handycams are too old to matter for this discussion.  Some level of assumption is made when replying here. :-)

     

    As I noted above, Sony has added weird stuff at times that does not follow.

    Perhaps, but look at it from a money perspective: if the code is written for AVCHD in one of their cameras, why on Earth would they change it for another camera?

     

    Further, Sony is one of original creators of the AVCHD standard.  So it's perfectly safe to assume that all of their AVCHD-supporting cameras are identical.

     

    jas

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 12:27 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    That's why I asked for model numbers to be posted

    once the clip spanning bug can be confirmed.

    I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my first post: it's 100% confirmed on both of those models.  I just don't remember what they are at the moment.

     

    jas

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 1:14 PM   in reply to Jason Van Patten

    And obviously, those Handycams are too old to matter for this discussion.  Some level of assumption is made when replying here. :-)

    Yep; it has me giggling again!

     

     

    if the code is written for AVCHD in one of their cameras, why on Earth would they change it for another camera?

     

    Further, Sony is one of original creators of the AVCHD standard.  So it's perfectly safe to assume that all of their AVCHD-supporting cameras are identical.

    First, just as in the PDX10 scenario I cited, Sony has made changes, screwed up, and changed back. For creating an authoritative list, I just don't think we should make that assumption (yet).

     

    Second, we don't know what causes this problem. While we can assume that Sony makes all its AVCHD cameras to conform to their specs, it is not clear that they have not, from time to time, modified anything in their AVCHD cameras that might interact with Adobe's code. We really don't even know that the fact that not all AVCHD spanned clips have problems is related to specific cameras/media types.

     

    Given the range of claims in many posts, I will not be at all surprised to see someone list a camera as showing the bug, and another user listing the same camera as having no problems.

     

    Kevin, can you provide the bug number for this problem? Can you get a response from the software engineers as to the believed source of the bug?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 2:12 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    You mean as in "not" nice?

     

    I have complimented the engineers when they occassionally have been very forthcoming with behind the scenes info - e.g. the reason it was not just a tweak to add smart rendering of mpeg files to Premiere. I really do believe that we would all rather do good than not, as long as it isn't too inconvenient! But transparency can be expensive.

     

    I do wonder if we are at a point where they might give us a bit of data to save us the exercise in this thread. They may know it's futile....

     

    And don't someone pipe in and remined me that we already know resistance is futile... I know, I know.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 9:11 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    I suppose I should get around to testing the Panasonic DMC-GH3 to make sure that the clips work OK. I think it stops at 4GB and creates the next file starting at the end of the first one.

     

    I will set it up right now and tape for a while just to see what happens. I have to change from shooting .mov to shooting .mp4 I guess. I'll give it a try.

     

    Edit: I have a choice of mov, mp4 and what they call AVCHD so I set it to AVCHD and started it running. But at 28Mb/s it is going to have to run for a while befor it hits 4G. What, something like 20 minutes or so?

     

    I'll be back.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2013 10:05 PM   in reply to Steven L. Gotz

    OK, I'm back. The Panasonic has no AVCHD issues with Premiere Pro. Also, I did not have to copy over the entire directory. I just copied 00000.MTS and 00001.MTS over to my hard drive and put them on the timeline. The changeover from the first file, which was 20 minutes 25 seconds long at 4GB, to the second file which I stopped about ten minutes into it, or at just over 30 minutes total (no European 29:59 rules for my camera), was seamless. My wifes arm was moving at that time and I can see that there is not a single frame missing.

     

    That should take the GH3 off of Steve's list of worries, although I doubted the problem would be in the GH3 if it was not in the GH2.

     
    |
    Mark as:
1 2 3 ... 6 Previous Next
Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points