We use InDesign CS6 v8.0.1 on Windows. About 80 percent of our documents use color as follows:
PMS 541 is applied as a spot color on at least 3 pages
Black text is used on every page
20 percent K tint is used (see image inserted below)
Our in-house printer is a Konica Minolta C454
The printer counts the tinted pages as a color, and we are charged for this "color" click. This has become costly for us, since the majority of the pages in our documents use pages with the 20 percent K tint. We create the box using the retangle tool and then outline with a 1pt. rule at 100 percent black and fill with 20 percent tint of black. Is there anyway to have the black tint just print as black and not as a color without printing the whole document as grayscale.
BTW: We have used the printer driver and the postcript driver and both interpret the screen as a "color."
I thought about the black appearance and printing thing but that
shouldn't be applicable with a postscript printer.
But...is the OP sure they're not using a PCL driver? That would
certainly do it.
Export a file to PDF and check it in Acrobat. If the 20% is K only, it is the printer and or its set up.
Oops, see you have just replied. I would suggest checking the swatch. I get proper results.
Yes. It is a PCL driver (not sure what that means, though.)
PCL (printer control language) drivers are RGB so ID considers your printer an RGB device. If the prefs are set to output all blacks as rich black this affects printing to RGB devices and you are actually getting four colors. Installing the Postscript driver should fix that.
Have you looked at the print with a looupe to see if you have four colors?
Turns out are IT guy thought he installed PostScript driver but didn’t. We checking into that now and hope this will resolve our problem. Thanks for your help….let’s hope I don’t have to bug ya’ll again.
Sep preview shows 20 percent on black plate, but the CMYK icon also shows 20 percent when hovering over the fill.
Are you doing a profile conversion in ID at output? No conversion
Did you loupe the print to see if there really are 4 inks? Unfortunately I don’t have a loupe, but doesn’t really matter since the printer still counts as tint as a color and we get charged for each color click. Konica Minolta rep is here and the maintains problem is with ID.
If there is only one color on the printed page and you're being charged for a color click, that is not ID.
It sounds like there is a color conversion going on, but it isn't clear where. Can you show us a screen capture of the Output and color Mangement screens from the print dialog, please.
Is color management enabled on the printer? If it is, turn it off.
@Peter – I think there are two ways the printer can count:
1. Grayscale OR Separation Black
If you chose a tint of black and print that, that would fall into category 2.
20 k is NOT Grayscale mode nore Separation Black.
I've seen that a lot with Xerox based systems.
I won't dispute waht you've seen, but I've never seen it and I can't understand how a native 20% k is any less grayscale than an imported photoshop file in grayscale mode. They both end up only on the K plate, and I don't think the print driver can differentiate between a native object and a placed one.
Very frustrating for sure. You would think a document as simple as this would “count” the inks accurately when auto color is selected, i.e. the PMS would count as a color click and the black 20 percent tint as a black “click.”
We are charged three times as much for a color “click” than we are for black. So you can imagine our costs if 80 percent of our document includes pages with a 20 percent black tint. If we print the document as grayscale then we don’t see the PMS color (541). We’re going to figure out a workaround to avoid the additional cost of color copies.
Thanks for all your input!
They both end up only on the K plate,
You can't spec a native color or object as grayscale—20% black is the CMYK color 0|0|0|20—but I think ID does recognize placed grayscale images as a grayscale object. A subtle, but maybe important difference in this case.
If you export an ID page with a placed grayscale as PDF/X-4, Acrobat identifies the placed grayscale as a grayscale and not as a CMYK object with the grayscale pixels on the K channel.
I've never seen a non-poscript RGB driver print CMYK values unchanged—I can print CMYK unchanged to my Epson inkjet via a Postscript RIP, but not via the Epson RGB driver. I don't normally use the Epson driver but I'm pretty sure it would print 0|0|0|20 as color and a grayscale with black only.
Are you saying you think 0/0/0/20 should be considered as color?
My RGB Epson driver prints 0|0|0|20 as a 4-color mix, and my experience with other RGB drivers is the same, any CMYK mix gets color managed for the printer.
Why wouldn't the printer then also consider the default black, 0/0/0/100 as color?
Maybe it does unless the page is printed as grayscale? Or maybe the driver's smart enough to make an exception for 100% black text.
included a single box with 20 percent K fill sent to the PostScript drive (straight from ID) and the printer counted is as a color click …now what!
My PS Rip (PowerRipX) will do it but not with the default settings. I don't think all PS RIPs can print document CMYK values.
It's not yet clear if the printer is using the PCL or PS driver.
I just output a page here that has a 100% K block, a 20% K block, and a grayscale raster on my two color printers, an OKI C110 that uses a PCL driver, and my Xerox Phaser 7800 that is Postscript. As expected, the OKI outpts four colors, even when set to output all blacks accurately, and the xerox outputs only black, and registers a black click.