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agitator
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Not at all happy with Premiere CC

Jun 26, 2013 9:42 PM

Hi,

 

I am running Premiere CC on my Del XPS 9100 worstation, Windows 7 Professional.

 

This is version of Premiere is so unstable ! My entire project got corrupted somehow and I checked and rechecked my GPU settings. ( Hardware/ Software)

 

My clips woudnt play on the timeline suddenly. I have never faced these issues with earlier versions of Premiere.

 

I am editing Canon DSLR footage btw.

 

So i unistalled Premiere and The creatve Cloud App woudnt show the unistallation !

 

So i had to reinstall the App and download agai n !

 

And I have deadline tomorrow, to finish an edit and this what I am doing.

 

Not pleased at all.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 26, 2013 10:45 PM   in reply to agitator

    It is never a good idea to update your software when you have a deadline to meet.  Particularly with Adobe software which is noted for being released whilst still in a beta version!

     
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    Jun 27, 2013 1:35 PM   in reply to Alan Craven

    Just where is it noted that this is a 'beta' version?? And I do agree, this new version is unstable for sure, not just premiere but the entire suite of apps. Even installing it is a major pain, but there isnt anything that stated that it was still in 'beta'.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 27, 2013 1:55 PM   in reply to filmjames

    Premiere Pro CC is not in Beta, its a full version.

    I agree it is not a good idea to switch to a brand new version with a deadline coming up.

    General advice has always been: finish in version you started and then move on.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2013 7:35 AM   in reply to agitator

    CC as at 07  04 2013 is absolute rubbish for stability. I guess I got suckered with the marketing saying this epp (whilst effectively without  serious additions), was ALL about streamlining operator and user friendliness. ... I am attempting to produce a series of international documentaries on it, and felt that since I was near completion of ep1 it would be best to jump in whilst I had a week to spare and get the series all smiley on the new versions so we could press on uninterupted. MAJOR mistake.

     

    I have a k5000 and i see no speed improvement over the fx 3800...

    I have a dell 12 processor machine ( t5500) with 60 gig ram  and is see eveidence of a memory leak - ie uses all the memory pretty quickly and swaps out after a few hours of running

     

    IT NEVER REMEMBERS PREVIEW RENDERS EVER!

     

    It was working realtively stable prior but now falls over from simple action like cut and paste effect to autoscrolling on the timeline, to whatever random error we get.

     

    I have 13,000 clips in this project - Avid handles that fine, but CC takes over 30 minutes just to load them every crash, and then a further hour and twenty to render to get back to where i left off.

     

    Every boot it insists on logging into the internet to 'accept' terms and wont run until I have done that. If Cloud isnt running in startup it assumes I am on trial mode. but if Colid is logged in its seems fine.

     

    Please move a long with a patch asap!!!

     

    I am giving this product a chance to produce a series of international documentaries of extremely high profiile. I fear its wont get a gurnsey if there is no patch VERY soon.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2013 7:57 AM   in reply to agitator

    and yes - clips dont play in the timeline when they did in CS6 - and there is often stutterd or choppy playback that necessitates a restart - which means a 30 minute load a a several hour hold up with previews reworking etc.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2013 9:02 AM   in reply to Frisbee head

    I don't think your experience is the norm, Frisbee.  If my own system were behaving that erratically, I'd give serious thought to wiping it and starting over.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2013 9:45 AM   in reply to Frisbee head

    New Premiere customers are left with nothing but poor alternatives at this point:  buy a CC subscription for a product which is not ready for professional work, even forgetting the other annoyances of the CC model, including the inability to reinstall a program without yet another download dependent on yet another piece of buggy Adobe software --  or buy CS6, on the understanding that it will never be improved.

     

    Maybe the safest thing is to download CS6 through a CC subscription, and hope like hell they fix CC at some point.  Say, in the next few years, given the pace of bug fixes for CS6.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2013 2:24 PM   in reply to agitator

    That can be tough, though. I haven't yet seen any definable conditions that cause PP to lose track of previews.  And if Adobe can't replicate the error, it can be difficult for them to fix it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2013 4:14 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Trust me - it has issues.....  it just loses its place, and thats a costly thing in premiere. previews are lost. Its rediculous right now. I saw similar things with v5, didnt expect in on a release that pinned as user efficiency improved...

     

    and i dont mean lost in the sense of the files arent there... they are, but premiere cc doesnt seem to know they should be used. It seems to screw up its internal databases of reference links to preview.  frankly this is not completely new, its just exagerated dramatically with tbis release being unstable.

     

    also had the audio on some video files   not be there in the timeline when they were in the project and played in tne source viewer, and could even match frame from the timeline....had to replace all of them.... its got issues whe you are doing real heavy work, its just lost soul.

     

    I am not a 'new' user. I have been in the game for 30 years and have used all platforms in depth. I am also a seasoned beta and alpha testers for pretty well all things ( but not adobe). it feels like its not been beta tested or they released a version that wasnt supposed to go to me. they released a pre release version to meet a deadline and they just lost sight of tne fact that they are at a cross road with industry they could really seize right now. Very dangerous game right now.

     

    whats with the  misleading advertising of lumetri integration too!  its there but not a single paramater can be adjusted at all inside premiere. its indian giving at its finest.

     

    I want this program to work.... i really do - i would be happy with a stable version of what i have....and yes my machine is stable and the results are the same on other boxes in the building. We are a facility with multiple seats so its not a 'box' issue.

     
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    Jul 4, 2013 6:03 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    i dont mean lost in the sense of the files arent there... they are, but premiere cc doesnt seem to know they should be used.

     

    I get it.  It's just not widespread or consistent enough to easily reproduce, and that makes it a tough fix.

     


    my machine is stable and the results are the same on other boxes in the building. We are a facility with multiple seats so its not a 'box' issue.

     

    Well, then you look to what is common on them which might be causing an issue, cause I have it on two machines (Win 7 and Win 8) and for the most part, it's worked very well so far with everything I throw at it.

     
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    Jul 4, 2013 9:00 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    But it is widespread. I think you are seeing evidence of three people in this small thread alone, thats not ioncluding thousands who suffer in silence thinking they are doing something wrong. Its pretty wide spread. You should feel blessed if you dont experience it Jim. I know more than 5 people that are suffering the same way on top of the 3 here. Its not isolated... doubt its just a minority group of Australian that only run win 7 etc. Premierre  never been great at holding renders anyway, it just got worse when i was expecting an improvement.

     

     

    The whole notion that you render high quality maximum quality renders as previews and it does treat them as finals is silly anyway. I should be able to play out from the timeline and I should not have to revist things. Whilst avid has various issues thats one area its rock solid. I virtually never have to re-import or 'find' missing clips, or re conform a heap of stuff because it forgot after a reboot.... CC is pretty weirdly all over the shop

     

     

    Of track slightly, but one classic design error is that you cant cache an animation from a network drive ( as has been done for decades in animation houses with render farms) you need to copy it locally or it just incessently keeps re-importing the file - attempting to "play it live" accross a network. It needs to know where the file came from and then use the local cached version unless the remote file was changed. But I digress...

     

    anyway lets patch whats borke first!

     
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    Jul 4, 2013 9:20 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    whats with the  misleading advertising of lumetri integration too!  its there but not a single paramater can be adjusted at all inside premiere. its indian giving at its finest.

     

     

    Try applying a Lumetri Effect to a clip.  It will ask for the location of a LUT. ( I have not tested this BT so can not comment on its efficacy)

     

    If you are only talking about Lumetri "Looks".  I agree. Limited value except to the lazy editor.

     
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    Jul 4, 2013 9:24 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    The whole notion that you render high quality maximum quality renders as previews and it does treat them as finals is silly anyway. I should be able to play out from the timeline and I should not have to revist things.

     

     

    I dont understand this expectation and its not a path to Final Export by design ( notion). Its an option for a quick and dirty export. eg a WIP.

     

    I never use the preview files for Exports  eg Never check that box on Export ...EVER..

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2013 9:44 PM   in reply to shooternz

    Hi ShooterNZ,

     

    thanks for chiming in.

    Nothing QUICk or dirty about rendering the whole timeline at highest render quality while you work ( it does this regardless of check box settings once you have high end  quadro cards ) The rendered timeline being intended only for 'crude playback'  - which was historically the achilies heal of Premiere, is actually not relevant to professional quadro systems. You cant render at 'crappy quality' there is no such setting and the settings are ignored for quality improvement once it detects a quadro. Its just does it at highest possible mode.

     

    With that in mind, there should be no reason not to use your previews, although - I prefer a choice. IE I want to choose to export a fully clean rendered version, or I want a quick export option from my renders which are maximum quality and color depth by the fact that I use Quadro. Life is about options. If a client needs a quick preview on an hour long complex documentary I want to play that out in real time to a H264 capture devise for playback, or ideally use the existing files to make a speedy export. Thats not the final and is repeated regularly. .... but should be fine for a final anyway, and certainly needs to be for broadcast work. You cant meet daily broadcast deadlines if you have to start rendering from scratch all day long. Wont happen.

     

    Seriously - You shouldnt have to re render if you are rendering high quality all the way with or without quadro. People that are in broadcast networks quite often play out over HDSDI in realtime. the renders in the timeline are of sufficient quality for this and dont get improved on when exporting and starting again.

     

    Again we digress - I realy want it to be stable thats all.... all else can work around as we have before and will for longer i guess.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2013 9:57 PM   in reply to shooternz

    yes if you use lumetri looks - you cand adjust anything so clearly you would use something like Saphire Effects or MB Looks... as they bith have paraater adjustments ( although SE is not completely accesible many are )

     

    If you drop Lumetri on the clip - it does open up a window ofr a look up llok up table file, and that file has to come from outside premiere and has to be preprepared so, its clearely an extrcaricular activity.

     
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    Jul 4, 2013 10:03 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    Interesting

     

    Nothing QUICk or dirty about rendering the whole timeline at highest render quality while you work ( it does this regardless of check box settings once you have high end  quadro cards )

     

    What / how are you setting your Preview files in a given sequence... that does this in regard to a Quadro Card.

     
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    Jul 4, 2013 10:12 PM   in reply to shooternz

    thats the whole point it doesnt matter what you set where.... Prem overrides any settings  for best quality if you have quadro installed ... Test away. It ignores the settings changes.

     

    go to sequence settings and the editable paramaters are greyed out if you have quadro. Yes you can adjust the dimensions - but then you wouldnt expect to export that in real time as its truely a low res preview. The colur depth settings are toggle able, but they do nothing if quadro is on. ( I understand this from my own percievable quality tests and some avangelist discussions in cs6 ). As this interface is legacy code it does delete the "preview" renders and make you recreate them if you hit the check boxes one way of the other, but if you have quadro there should be no difference, ( I run mine high anyway  unless its a cruddy job ) 

     

    Happy to hear if you get a different result but that what we get.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2013 11:40 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    Need to backtrack on your workflow here so I fully understand this.

     

    As far as I know..nothing on the planet is broadcast / streamed  "Uncompressed"  ...in fact...heavily compressed....so therefore....what are you trying to do? 

     

    All sequences come with a Preview/ Playback Codec and some of them can be varied as an option. Not all of them.

     

    None of them are Uncompressed.  (and for a reason obviously)

     

    Not sure where this Quadro special revelation  thing comes from and I have had them. Waste of money IMHO. 

     

    .

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2013 12:08 AM   in reply to shooternz

    'The whole notion that you render high quality maximum quality renders as previews and it doesNT treat them as finals is silly anyway'

     

    Sorry there was more than one typo and it seems that the meaning changed. I should have said doesnt not does.

     

    uncompressed has nothing to do with it. We are not doing uncompressed and thats correct, no broadcaster does it, but they expect 10 bit high definition quality playout sources and masters or at least 422 8 bit. So you work in the highest quality and bit depth for the sequence settings or selected codecs. If you use various codecs of broadcast origin they dont have domestic low resolution crappy preview modes so much. So effectively you are RENDERING and WORKING with the final quality all the time. ( by Choice) Its not 'really' a preview. thats a legacy concept from when Premiere was only a toy to the industry and couldnt do any realtime play back to get excited about. Its now  stepping up as a broadcast toolset and as such needs to deliver or it will be lost again. If you dont work 'online' all the time you dont really ever see the quality of the product until you export, and the client could not treat you as a serious player against an alway online suite like AVID.  Its capable of it now so its all good if it wouldnt lose renders all the time.

     

      If someone wants to play back out to an HD xdcam deck via HDSDI or even a hdv tape deck they are supposed to be able to from the high quality renders in the timeline.  Quadro do make a big difference if the card is supported. if its a fringe dweller its probably not going to add much value. I havent seen a lot of difference between this new generation K5000 to my older 3800, so thats not great yet considering there is over a thousand more processors on board.

     

    Fact is CC is currently  unstable and loses preview renders every crash ( of which we have 5 or so a day )  as well as every second or third non crash opening. Its adding about 6-7 hours to my workload every day. Its not good.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2013 1:51 AM   in reply to Frisbee head

    @Frisbee head: I recommend starting a separate thread specific to the issue you're having with lost renders. That way others who are hitting this problem have a better shot at finding the thread. If you do so, please be as specific as possible about the types of files, effects, etc. in your sequence. Does the Events panel show any errors?

     

    Of course, if the preview renders are getting lost chiefly if not entirely as the result of a recurring crash, then the first order of business is to get a handle on that crash. Again, a separate thread is the best bet. For that thread, please specify the following:

    • if you are working with a CS6 project that you opened in CC? If so, can you repro with a new project created in CC?
    • Are you hitting the crash only in one project or only with one sequence? If so, you could be dealing with a corrupt project or sequence.
    • Do you get an error dialog or crash report?

     

     

    One rather unrelated point: In the second sentence of your first post in this thread, you wrote the CC is "effectively without serious additions." Are you asserting that the CC release is lacking in new features? If so, I don't think that's a fair assessment, and as evidence I give you these two pages:

    1. http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/whats-new.html
    2. https://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/features.html

     

     

    Of course, you may not have much use for the new features and workflow enhancements, but that's doesn't equate to the CC release being light on innovation. (To say nothing of being potentially counterproductive for your immediate purpose of getting assistance with the issues your encountering.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2013 4:13 AM   in reply to Frisbee head

    @Frisbee head

     

    Per Mark Mapes' suggestion, this thread on lost renders already exists from a few days ago:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/5461422#5461422

     

    It didn't get much love or interest, so it's hard to know how common the problem is, but rest assured, CC renders are not being lost only Australia.  On one or two occasions, the links actually held after closing the program and restarting, but most of the time, nothing.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2013 9:25 AM   in reply to Frisbee head

    it does this regardless of check box settings once you have high end  quadro cards

     

    Yes, certain things get done at maximum quality with GPU acceleration turned on, regardless of the card.  But this is only part of the issue.  The preview codec itself will play a larger role in whether or not the previews are suitable for use during export.  Most of the sequence presets use I-frame MPEG for previews.  As MPEG is not lossless, most people consider it unsuitable for use during export, as it just add's another level of compression to the chain.  This is what shooter was talking about.

     

    Of course, it is possible to set up custom sequences using lossless previews so you avoid that compression step and attendant degradation.  And now with CC7, you can use DNxHD for previews (which isn't technically lossless, but most would consider good enough for the job).

     

    As far as losing previews being 'widespread', I don't consider it such, and here's why.  There are no clear steps to reproduce.  There are other bugs where anyone can perform the same actions and see the bug.  Those are widespread.  This one's intermittent (by comparison).

     

    But that's semantics, really.  Whatever label you assign to the issue, without clear steps to reproduce, it can be a difficult issue to resolve.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2013 9:31 AM   in reply to Frisbee head

    Fact is CC is currently  unstable

     

    Again, it hasn't been for me on two systems.  The only time it's crashed is when I invoke a known bug.

     

    On that subject, the bug in question is applying a border to any of the wipe transitions.  That will cause a crash every time.  You aren't doing that, are you?

     
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    Jul 5, 2013 10:09 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Losing previews never happened in CS5.5, it started in CS6 and continues in CC. Saving to an empty sequence has pretty much solved the "losing previews files" for me.

     
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    Jul 5, 2013 4:18 PM   in reply to Cavemandude

    is that 5 that have chimed in with that 'non widespread' problem here now.  the more denial and adobe spin doctoring that gets put up the less credibility you will keep. We all see through that stuff. Its a savvy world these days.

     

    re what causes crashes and where the instabilities came from.... along with stuttery playback etc (the threads original topic)

     

    I get crashes from:

    playing the timeline....it will occasionally just crash especially if in auto smooth scroll mode.. so dont do that...

    cut and pasting effects from clip,to clip,using the paste attributes... I have had this many times and now revert to pasting from effect panel to effect panel.slow but so far more stable

    crashes on close

    not sure what causes others. its just unstable and the net result is lost and potential corrupted project, (had to revert to backups 4times in one week. I am now using recover of recover of recover project file from a backup....and also the epic lost preview saga. an hour to render the timeline and non of the new feature of finding missing files happens to render files, so thats a feature that llost on real world productivity.

     

    re stuttery playback.... seems to be all over my timeline. some boot ups its worse than others. some times  i wait for the epic 20minute load, and then I have to go again as its just unusable, other boots it spritely till it crashes, but always unable to playback completely smoothly from the rendered timeline it will just stutter a few small bits here and there, and you can play they same bit again... its fine.. re rendering doesnt help. i never had these playback ossues in cs6, they are new in cc for me.

     

    i have never tried closing the product with only one blank seqence open before. - I see the logic and will look at that for the normal close sessions. It certain'y is a good pointer for adobe engineers to consider if thats a real thing,  might help a little.. thanks for that workaround suggestion.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2013 5:46 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    What exactly are you referring to as "denial and Adobe spin doctoring"? I am the only Adobe staff member who has posted in this thread, and I see nothing in my post that fits that description. And for the record, I am not questioning the severity or commonness of the issues you're experiencing.

    I urge you again to start another thread regarding the crashes you're experiencing. Submitting a bug report is also a good idea.

    Thanks for providing a bit of detail about various actions that you believe are triggering the crashes. However, you did not answer the specific questions I posed.

    As to the two actions that say can trigger crashes--playing the timeline with smooth scrolling enabled and pasting effects using the Paste Attributes feature--I assure you that both of those basic actions have been extensively tested, but obviously we cannot cover every possible scenario--combination of effects, keyframing, types of content, etc. So I presume there's something about your sequence that PPRO is having trouble with. Detailed information is essential to attempting to repro crashes and other bugs. Having a test project--complete with assets--with which to repro the bug is even better. I realize that your project is probably way too large to upload. So if you can isolate a crash and set up the simplest possible project to repro, that would be immensely helpful.

    Of course, if your project is simply corrupted, then basically all bets are off. Maybe we can get a handle on what introduced the corruption, but the crashes you're hitting within that particular product are most likely knock-on effects--the result of an undefined state caused by the corrupt project.

     

    @cavemandude: would you elaborate on what you mean by "saving to an empty sequence"?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2013 7:31 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    He means opening a blank sequence before saving.

    This was discussed at length in a previous thread in this forum.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2013 8:36 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    Mark Mapes wrote:

     

     

    @cavemandude: would you elaborate on what you mean by "saving to an empty sequence"?

    This "solution" was offered for CS6, for lost renders -- saving the project while in an empty sequence, rather than in a sequence linked to render files.  It apparently worked for some, but not everyone (in CS6).  Can't comment personally, since I didn't have lost renders in CS6.

     

    But this practice doesn't preserve render files in CC.  It's not a workaround.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 9, 2013 3:28 AM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for joining in. My comment re denial and spin doctoring comes from others that present not as Adobe, but reappear in mutiple threads on similar topics saying things like, its fine, not a problem here, it must be you, you are a minority etc. Typically they are either 'encouraged' by the forum owners, or are a part of the forum. That may not be the case here, but with cross over threads talking similar things and the same entity on both saying ' doesnt happen' it makes you wonder. Sorry If I offended you personally.

     

    I am happy to provide as much information as required to make things more stable within the confines of a beta test situation. ( thats where these things should be picked up on )  I dont agree with 'testing' this level of layered complication as a commercial end user. Its not right, we need more direct access to the development team. Can you organise that please? I have tested for all the other majors over the years, so i believe i can be of assistance with some important things.

     

    right now i am suffering the additional head ache of it thinking its not licensed every three days or so. I wonder if thats part of the issue and that there is some anti pirating code in there thats gone crazy in the final release. About every 3 days I have to login on each individual product as i use it ( I have to log in to cloud  twice in consecutive order to get it out of 'trial mode'.) It was never installed as a trial, and keeps losing its place. Very annoying stuff.

     

    With regards to other coments above: I meant to say it was wrong to be able to render high quality DNx HD as 'preview' and not consider that the final render for export. It most certainly should be able to be done or you will never ever compete with the likes of A**** for broadcast. It should be rendered as a final when you finish - you dont 'start again' just because of old school concepts of a machine not having the power to render online as you go. Its also the only way to see what you are doing at a quality level, and also display a quality product to a client in an online environment. Losing 'preview' renders is a nightmare worth dropping a product for. If it can be fixed - thats fantastic, but if its a release or 2 away, or the concept that preview renders can never be final renders is a common and ongoing headspace, I have grave fears for its long term place in the broadcast arena. No broadcaster can start a render again from scratch at the end of the edit... the dealines wont allow it.

     

    Thanks David

     
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    Jul 9, 2013 7:15 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    I will work fine for a while and then just stop playing - it scrubs with a mouse, but the play button doesnt work any more. Once you close the app and want to go back in you realise its lost the Cloud server link and it wants to be constantly 'alive' to the internet. If I try to reopen without loging back into cloud it insists I am a trial and have expred ( which wouldnt have anywow as its not installed for long enough )

     

    If I log into cloud and then reopen I have to yet again agree to terms and it advances me to use the software, if I am dont relog into cloud first it insists I am in trial mode and needs 2 x logins from the software to get it to accept that I am a registered user etc.

     

    I read that you only needed to be online every month or so and that CC wouldnt lose its auth for up to 90 days off line. Thats not the case here....

     
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    Jul 9, 2013 7:50 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    No personal offense taken, David. I simply wanted to clarify what you referring to regarding "Adobe spin-doctoring" and to point out that no Adobe staff has been guilty of that. (At least not here in this thread. I'm not in a position to make that kind of categorical statement concerning the Premiere forums much less the entirety of the Adobe boards.)

     

    I am happy to provide as much information as required to make things more stable within the confines of a beta test situation. ( thats where these things should be picked up on)  I dont agree with 'testing' this level of layered complication as a commercial end user. 

    What you call testing I call troubleshooting. The difference to my mind is that the goal of troubleshooting is to determine what's causing the problem and, if possible, find a way to avoid it, whereas testing is geared toward exercising the software to find bugs, refine workflows, and generally improve the quality of the software. You came here with a specific problem, which I and others are attempting to help you troubleshoot. To do so, we need more information. If you opt not to provide more details because it feels too much like beta testing, so be it.

    I'm not particularly familiar with how PPro handles rendered previews; it's simply not a part of the app that I've ever been responsible for testing. That said, if a genuine bug is at the root of the problem you and others are having with lost render files, I'm fairly confident it will prove to be a corner case of some kind--limited to certain codecs or file types or preview file formats or hardware configuration or read-only media, etc. My confidence is based on the caliber of the quality engineers who police that area of the program as well as on the knowledge that, contrary to your insinuation, we have a large prerelease program with a core of very active beta testers who, like yourself, are experienced video professionals. So if it were a mainstream bug that affected all preview files, we would have found it.

    If I'm right that this problem (if it's a bug) is a corner case, then even after you and others have called it to our attention, we may not be able to reproduce fix it without your cooperation to help us nail down the key variables.

    But I've allowed myself to digress. As noted in one of my earlier posts, your problem with lost preview files might be just a knock-on effect from your project getting corrupted due to a crash. For that matter, project corruption could account for the repeated crashes. I recommend reverting to a known-good version of the project, at least to see if you keep hitting crashes and losing preview files. Continuing to work with a corrupt project is kind of like driving a wrecked car with the steering totally out of whack. In both cases, it's no great mystery why it keeps crashing. The difference is that unlike a car, you have backups of your project. But if the backups inherited the corruption, then you're no better off.

     

    On a completely different matter. In post 18 you wrote "go to sequence settings and the editable paramaters are greyed out if you have quadro. Yes you can adjust the dimensions - but then you wouldnt expect to export that in real time as its truely a low res preview." If I understand correctly, you're talking about the fact that the Preview File Format [PFF] is grayed out in most cases. Editing Mode (and, in some cases, Timebase) constrains PFF (and PFF in turn constrains the codec for video previews). So if Editing Mode is set to "DNX 440X 1080p (RGB 444)" and Timebase is set to 23.976, then Preview File Format will be locked at "DNX 440X 1080p 23.976 (RGB 444)."

    As to your multi-part dissertation about low vs. high quality preview files and the use of those files when ultimately encoding, either I'm missing something or you are. Premiere gives you great flexibility in the preview file format and then lets you choose whether or not to use those preview files when you go to encode. Naturally, if you opted for a "quick and dirty" PFF that's lower quality than your final encode, then you would not want to use those preview files for your final encode. If, on the other hand, you use a high end PFF in order to preview your sequence at very high quality, then you might as well use those previews for encoding, which you can do by selecting the Use Previews checkbox in the Export Settings dialog. Both are valid workflows. So what exactly do you mean by statements like "it was wrong to be able to render high quality DNx HD as 'preview' and not consider that the final render for export. It most certainly should be able to be done..." Unless I'm completely off the mark concerning the designed behavior or unaware of a bug, you can use your previews for final export. Or is this just another way of saying that it's a major pain that your preview files are getting lost?

     
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    Jul 9, 2013 10:26 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    if it were a mainstream bug that affected all preview files, we would have found it.

     

    Thank you.  That's all I was trying to say.

     
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    Jul 10, 2013 7:24 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    There is a patch for Premiere this morning but it does not disclose what it bug fixes. Where do we find out what 7.0.1 fixes - ie the list of items addressed. I need to understand what I am doing, so I dont test blindly - sorry 'troubleshoot' blindly.      I see links that disclose new features, but have no reference to bug fixes.

     

    One thing I have discovered in my testing -  I mean troubleshooting,   that may help others is that if you had calibrated Q on cs6 to support the mezanine codecs, it still attempts to do things in CC even though you  havent installed it for CC. I would say I am running slightly more stable with it uninstalled, but of course cant work on old cs6 projects on that basis. I feel about a 15-20% improvement in stability not sure what it was doing in CC, but it CC running without it and more stable. This is not a complete fix for anything, just an improvement.

     

    We are not a minority/corner case. I have been exposed to 9 others with similar issues now. Not to mention that losing renders has gone on in Prem for a decade and is its achiles heal. Its just gotten worse instead of better.  Its basically your current team  not using it the same as 9 people I have spoken to so.... maybe you dont have it covered and do need other broader testers in the loop. ie heaps of plugins, mezanine codecs etc. Something is different out here and not so rosy for a long time. We only use decent grade workstations that run extremely reliably on other software platforms including most adobe products so I dont believe we are isolated and 'unique'.

     

    Anyway - can anyone advise the list of fixes for 7.0.1? Not new features. bug fixes please.

     

    Re the preview files being used if rendered at sufficient quality for master - I get all of that. If the renders are still there when you go to export, the 'use preview button' just doesnt work for several releases I know of. Otherwise it wouldnt take a 1 hour 20 - 5hours to output a project thats 50 minutes long and already rendered, ( many times over and over ) when you export it as same as sequence with that check box selected. If it worked it would spit it out in 5 minutes like the competitor does if exported same as source, making it much more viable for time pressured broadcast.

     

    Anyway I have downloaded the updates that have some sort of  bug fixes on them and will see how we go. I would appreciate a list of bug fixes though. As you can appreciate I dont have time for guessing games unfortunately.

     
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    Jul 10, 2013 8:11 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    The new version is also losing render files and has the self-muting audio tracks.  No apparent change, at least there.

     
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    Jul 10, 2013 8:17 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    I compiled a list of bugs fixed in this patch. It's now awaiting review and approval before posting.

     

    Thanks for the clarification on the matter of using preview files for the final render. That's much clearer to me now. As I've said, rendering and the use of render files is outside my bailiwick, but I'll ping the experts in this domain and see what I can report back.

     

    When I referred to this as likely being a corner case, I did not mean to suggest that it's limited to an isolated few users, only that it's not mainstream. If only, say, 1-2% of all PPRO users hit this bug, that would still amount to several thousand customers worldwide. But from our side, it remains a needle in a haystack until we collect enough data to isolate the cause. If the nine others you refer to are reasonably close associates, perhaps you've traded a favorite workflow or plugins or hardware configurations, etc. that is key to this puzzle, making it more prevalent within your circle of colleagues.

    One other point to toss out there: It's possible that several disparate issues are resulting in preview files being lost. That is, lost preview files are the symptom, not the disease, and it could be that multiple diseases, or bugs, manifest with the same symptom. When I worked on AME, we had just such a case. The symptom: encoding would hang. Through the course of a lengthy thread about this problem, we eventually isolated several causes: insufficient RAM, bad graphics cards, the use of GPU acceleration in certain circumstance, the presence in the sequence of still images greater than 1920x1080, and, if memory serves a certain combination of effects.

     
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    Jul 10, 2013 8:56 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    Mark Mapes wrote:

     

    Through the course of a lengthy thread about this problem, we eventually isolated several causes: insufficient RAM, bad graphics cards, the use of GPU acceleration in certain circumstance, the presence in the sequence of still images greater than 1920x1080, and, if memory serves a certain combination of effects.

     

    In my case, links to previously rendered areas of t-l which are lost after restarting PPro CC are not lost in an identical project in CS6.  The sequence in question contains 1920X1080 still images, the rendered portion is AVCHD footage with applied luma curve, fast color corrector, warp stabilizer and lighting fx.  There's plenty of RAM (32gb) and I am using hardware acceleration.  No known issues with the graphics card.

     
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    Jul 10, 2013 9:52 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    Multiple machines with different projects. Our main machine is an otherwise rock stable with 60 gigs ram and a k5000 Quadro card. It has 12 processor Xeon 3.33. The C drive is an SSD and the internal raid drives are 10,000 rpm bank of three. ( this is where I normally have the renders go to and the alternate software does not lose renders all the time ).  I do use USB3 externals on some projects, but not on this main Documentary project  at the moment. There is a heavy mix of formats media, but all 1080. All images are graded with a cobination of things, but not all are done in the same way as you can imagine.

     

    Some plugins that would exist on the timeline are

    Saphire Effects

    MB Looks

    Film Emulsion

    Tone Boosters

    Isotope

    Twixtor ( although I am having a repeatable problem  with that on CC  am not CURRENTLY using under CC - am testing with those folk seperately )

     

     

    3 of the people I refered to out of the 9 exist in this thread with different systems in different countrys etc. No prior communications.

     

    The others I refferred to with the exception of 2 are not all terribly advanced users in comparison to what we are working on so they would have much less complexity in the sequences.

     

    I tend to lose all my renders as opposed to just some, Its not every boot, about 1 in 3, but on occassion I have been relieved that most renders are there and only a few clips are missing etc

     
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    Jul 12, 2013 6:47 PM   in reply to Frisbee head

    Thanks for the additional info, jamesp2 and David (aka, Frisbee head"). For all who are frequenting this thread for the discussion of lost preview files, please see my post from just a few minutes ago on this thread: http://forums.adobe.com/message/5494367#5494367. Let's continue the discussion of this issue over there since that thread's title and scope is better defined and will therefore be easier for others to find.

     
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