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Drag/dropping clip from Source Monitor... but where's the audio?!

Aug 1, 2013 8:19 PM

In CS6, drag/dropping a clip from the Source monitor to the Timeline would override track targeting.  So if I only had V1 targeted for performing Insert or Overwrite edits from the Source Monitor, dragging a clip with my mouse would drop the clip in the Timeline together with Audio, even though no Audio tracks are targeted.

 

PP CC changes this.  Dragging a clip from the Source Monitor no longer overrides track targeting as I've come to expect from years of pre-CC editing.

 

My question: Why?

Does this change actually make it better for any PP editors out there?  It certainly doesn't make it better for me since this breaks yet another workflow convention that I've been taught to use and depend on by no other than Adobe itself.  When I drag/drop clips from the Source Monitor, I always want them to appear with audio as was the case in every pre-CC version of Premiere.

 

Am I missing a really important reason that this had to be changed in CC?

 

Sounds to me like yet another official FR is in order unless a great reason is provided for the change.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 1, 2013 10:04 PM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    Why is a question that probably won't get answered. But I have one for you...

     

    Why are you deselecting the track targeting for the audio in the first place? The default is to have both the video and the audio track targeted.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 8:03 AM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    We have seen it where the audio track accidentally got deselected, but I have not seen a report otherwise.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 8:47 AM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    Does this change actually make it better for any PP editors out there?

     

    I don't think so.  Dragging should not be affected by any source patching or targeting.  If you want to drag only video, drag the film strip.  If you want to drag only audio, drag the waveform.  There's no need for dragging the video from the Source Monitor to respect source patching or targeting.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 8:49 AM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek
    Why would it work during one editing session, but not others?

     

    It works fine if both are on or if both are off.  It only goes weird if one is on.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 3:24 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    There's no need for dragging the video from the Source Monitor to respect source patching or targeting.

     

    Of course there is a reason!

     

    It allows the editor  control of timeline management and to send audio and video to tracks that they choose to.  eg One may require Video on 3 and Audio on 5.

     

    Some editors choose Drag and Drop to time line or the Program Monitor. Some choose shortcuts and insert overlay buttons. Its a matter of choices for all.

     

    I definitely want to log either a BR or a FR for this to get fixed, since I don't see any advantages in the way it works now in CC vs the way it did in CS6.

     

    Apart from pathological discontent I dont think your reason to file BR or CR is any reason at all to do so.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 3:32 PM   in reply to shooternz

    It allows the editor  control of timeline management and to send audio and video to tracks that they choose to.

     

    Dragging the film strip or wave icons provide that functionality if you want only video or audio, so I stand my my statement.  There's no need for dragging the video from the Source Monitor to respect source patching or targeting.  Doing so only get's in the way.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 3:48 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Of course ...why do it in one movement when you can do it in two!  

     

    I usually manage my timelines in a manner that checkerboards the audio synch lines eg Audio 1 and Audio 2

     

    I do the same with the Video. (Video 1 and Video 2 say)

     

    This allows me to overlap and J and L cut the video.

     

    BUT... you  would have me place my Video down first ..then take my Audio down next!.

     

    Jim...You really need to think outside of your own workflows because others do work differently.

     

    Simply - I want the video and audio placed where I want it in one move..not two.  And yes...I use Insert and Overlay single pop methods as well as drag and drop.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 3:56 PM   in reply to shooternz

    .why do it in one movement when you can do it in two!

     

    That doesn't make sense as a criticism of my point.

     

    If you want both, you should get both in one drag by grabbing the video frame.  Premiere Pro CC does not offer that possibility when only video or audio is patched.

     

    If you want one or the other, you can drag the film strip or the wave icon, so there's no need for patching with drag and drop.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 4:21 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    You said

     

    There's no need for dragging the video from the Source Monitor to respect source patching or targeting.

     

    Then you repeated

     

    If you want one or the other, you can drag the film strip or the wave icon, so there's no need for patching with drag and drop.

     

    When I want both (synch is always both).... I want each part to go where I want it.  ie I patch it so that I dont get arbitrary placement of the parts.

     

    Thats why its necessary to have the ability to patch.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 4:28 PM   in reply to shooternz

    When I want both (synch is always both).... I want each part to go where I want it.

     

    Ahhhh, now I'm starting to see it.

     

    OK, so patching can make sense when you want to drag to different numbered tracks.  Previously, dragging always brought the clips to the same numbered track.

     

    I still think you should get both video and audio even if only one is patched, though, simply because if you only want one, you can always drag the filmstrip or the wave icon.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 4:33 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    By joves..he has  got it.

     

     

    I still think you should get both video and audio even if only one is patched, though, simply because if you only want one, you can always drag the filmstrip or the wave icon.

     

    Yes thats an "anomally" only by way of the way it was weirdly implemented one way and not the other ( a minor bug).

     

    Otherwise I would be happy with that as well.  Its that choice thing again...which that 1/2 gives you.

     
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    Aug 2, 2013 9:37 PM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    Heres my problem with your issue.

     

    YOur first sentence in your OP said..

     

    In CS6, drag/dropping a clip from the Source monitor to the Timeline would override track targeting.

     

    Obviously you think this is best practice.

     

    Thing is...I dont agree or want that...and I explained it to Jim clearly and succinctly..until he eventually came to realise that other editors work differently to him. 

     

    In short ..He got it. (and he has really fixed paradigms and usually very hard to  sway)

     

    You have exactly the same right to your opinions but the problem is.. you claim everything you dont happen to like or work the way  that you think it should or prefer it to .....is "screwed because of  hopeless Adobe employees, idiots with egos etc...

     

    (You sure know how to wind up the people you need to impress by your insults and accusations).

     

    .

     
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    Aug 3, 2013 7:01 PM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    In case you're not aware, CC allows you to save presets for particular track targetting combinations. You can assign a shortcut to up to ten such presets, and the Keyboard Shortcuts dialog also has a shortcuts for toggling all video tracks or all audio tracks.

    For those who don't think source patching should affect behavior when you're dragging and dropping, I doubt that these presets and shortcuts will satisfy you, but they should at least streamline your workflow a bit and thereby limit your frustration.

    As to whether the old or new behavior is preferable, I don't have an informed opinion. I will, however, check with the individuals who worked on the redesign of the Timeline to learn whether this change was by design.

     
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    Aug 4, 2013 7:55 AM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    I have to go with Pierre on this one. "Source patching should affect the default tracks a dragged clip snaps to."

     

    And "The 'Drag Only Video/Audio' buttons should always work."

     
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    Aug 4, 2013 9:16 AM   in reply to Steven L. Gotz

    I agree as well.

     
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    Aug 4, 2013 10:14 AM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    Mark Mapes wrote:

     

    For those who don't think source patching should affect behavior when you're dragging and dropping...As to whether the old or new behavior is preferable, I don't have an informed opinion. I will, however, check with the individuals who worked on the redesign of the Timeline to learn whether this change was by design.

    Mark -

     

    Like Steven and Jim and Pierre here, I have to agree that the old way is preferable where dragging and dropping clips (A&V, V only, A only) directly from the source window should work like it did in CS6, where you can always drag and drop regardless of one's source patching setup.

     

    Now, the suggestion that source patching should affect the default tracks a dragged clip snaps to is fine with me as well. As long as you can always drag and drop both audio and video (by dragging the video's image) and drop it on the timeline. That's what's most important to me personally.

     

    There are several threads now that touch on this topic all with very different titles and descriptions, but this one is more "to the point" so I figured I'd chime in here as well. Feature request was submitted. (or should it be bug report?) If it was in fact changed by design, I'd love to know why and how it helps. Thanks Mark!

     
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    Aug 4, 2013 2:19 PM   in reply to DMH79

    As long as you can always drag and drop both audio and video (by dragging the video's image) and drop it on the timeline. That's what's most important to me personally.

     

    My point is that some one (like me ...personally)  needs to  be able to manage where each / both tracks go to if one is in anway concerned with managing your tracks in your sequence.

    (See my post #9 - describes reason)

     

    Only patching and targetting can do this. Its logical and simple and consistent.

     

    For those that want to just drag and them dump a clip into the sequence without ever worrying what tracks they go to ....they are unlikely to be using patching anyway other than default.  ie. it affects no one either way.

     

    Agreed..there is maybe a slight bug (anomally) in the patching in CS7. That needs attending to.

     
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    Aug 5, 2013 4:07 PM   in reply to shooternz
    My point is that some one (like me ...personally)  needs to  be able to manage where each / both tracks go to if one is in anway concerned with managing your tracks in your sequence.

     

    No one's arguing that point.  It's a nice new feature of CC7.

     

    The issue we take is that if only video is patched, you don't get audio.  That's no good.  If you want only video, you can drag the film strip.  If you want only audio, you can drag the waveform.  But if you drag the image, you normally want both.  Same track, different tracks can be handled with patching, but always bring down both regardless of patching.

     

    In short, when dragging from the Source Monitor, source patching is great for controlling where to put things, but should never affect what get's put.

     
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    Aug 5, 2013 4:31 PM   in reply to shooternz

    As promised, I checked with teammates & learned that the changes in behavior discussed in this thread were all intentional. I do not have a good enough handle on the rationale behind these changes to explain much less defend them.

    If my experience is any guide, this means that bug reports regarding this behavior are likely to be closed as AsDesigned, while feature requests to simply return to the old behavior will have difficulty gaining traction. I expect the most promising approach will be to ask for a new pref that controls whether source patching affects dragging behavior.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 5, 2013 5:08 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    Mark Mapes wrote:

     

    I expect the most promising approach will be to ask for a new pref that controls whether source patching affects dragging behavior.

    Thanks for checking on this and for the honest feedback. Yes, having the "option" or pref that controls whether souce patching affects dragging behavior would be IDEAL. Please pay your teammates $50 to push that through and then you can bill my account. I'll gladly fund that little jumpstart project.

     
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    Aug 5, 2013 5:39 PM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    This double posted thread is a real pain to follow.

     
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    Aug 5, 2013 5:45 PM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    Correction to an error I made in Post #17, where I wrote "CC allows you to save presets for particular track targetting combinations." I meant to reference Source Patching and presets thereof.

    SaveSourcePatchingPreset.jpg

     

    @Pierre: I shall not be responding to your post #26--except to state that I shall not be responding to it or to any of your future posts. I find your tone on this forum hostile and offensive. I'm not asking you to change your tone. That's not my place.

    It is, however, within my discretion to be selective about which threads and posts to respond to. My participation on the forum is voluntary and comes chiefly out of my own time; it is not part of my official responsibilities. And I have better ways to spend my time than engaging with individuals who make a habit of insulting the team that I am a proud member of.

     
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    Aug 5, 2013 6:14 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    Hope I haven't got on your naughty list Mark.

     

    Thanks for the preference feature request suggestion for this issue. I made that feature request. I find you guys always helpful and get excited when staff members respond to issues like this that are important to my workflow. Anytime an editor has the "option" as you suggested, I think that's the best. Check a box when you want it to work one way, and uncheck it if you want it working another way.  

     
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    Aug 5, 2013 8:22 PM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    hint.png

     
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    Aug 6, 2013 6:51 PM   in reply to PierreLouisBeranek

    Here's what I submitted:

     

    *******Enhancement / FMR*********

     

    Brief title for your desired feature: Drag & Drop from Source Monitor

     

    How would you like the feature to work?

     

    While the new ability to drop video and audio to different numbered tracks using source patching is a very welcome change to Premiere Pro CC, there remains a flaw with the new feature.  The issue is that if only video is patched, you don't get audio, and vice versa.  That's no good.  If you want only video, you can drag the film strip.  If you want only audio, you can drag the waveform.  But if you drag the image, you normally want both.  Same track/different tracks can be handled with patching, but when dragging the image, ALWAYS bring down both REGARDLESS of patching.

     

    In short, when dragging from the Source Monitor, source patching is great for controlling WHERE to put things, but should never affect WHAT get's put.

     

    Why is this feature important to you?

     

    The current behavior is less efficient, and could force the extra step of changing source patching when we want video and audio to come down during a drag and drop, which could also mean changing it back for other functions.  That's potentially two extra steps.

     
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