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Do you use any other editor still?

Aug 17, 2013 4:21 AM

In the past, I used BBedit, but have really taken to DW over the past few months.  It is such a time saver, I almost thought it was too good to be true when I was first learning it.  While I did like it a lot, I almost felt like I was "cheating" using DW, but quickly got over it because the outcomes were the same, just that with DW I was saving countless hours.

 

I was just wondering if I was the only one who had those thoughts, or if anyone still uses a different editor.  I know many devs who swear by Sublime text 2, even after I tell them how great dw is, they just blow me off, their loss. 

 

I am obviously still becoming proficent with dreamweaver but its the best software investment Ive ever made.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 17, 2013 12:30 PM   in reply to packet_header

    Aptana!  Dreamweaver is outdated!    http://www.aptana.com

     
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    Aug 17, 2013 1:06 PM   in reply to packet_header

    Dreamweaver is okay and a pretty good editor. (Especially when you were used to BBedit) As a web code editor environment it's been overtaken by the competition. Komodo, Netbeans, Aptana, Eclipse, PHPStorm, etc. Of course, my opinion as a web developer.

     

    Still, Dreamweaver has good support for users that wish for more visual development, especially with all the extensions out there. It's a bit expensive for what it offers, though, in my view. Even Microsoft offers Visual Studio Web for free now.

     

    Personally, I left Dreamweaver years ago, and have also switched to other editors during my web dev classes. Much better integrated development editors out there, and for free. Currently using Netbeans. Integrates well with Chrome for direct debugging, local and SVN versioning, html w3c validation while typing, great javascript & PHP framework support, PHP debugging with XDebug, and much more.

     

    The local automatic versioning is gold in NetBeans!

     

    If you think DW is a great editor: well, you haven't seen the ocean outside "the pond" yet. These days there are so many professional options out there for web developers, that it's become more of an individual preference. Like the clothes you are wearing. Heck, I know one or two devs who still think anything beyond Notepad is junk.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 17, 2013 1:07 PM   in reply to packet_header

    Microsoft Expression Web4 is better IMO and it is free.  Its Intellisense function is pretty efficient and you get prompts quickly when you are inserting codes manually like I always do.  I never work in design view.  My DW or EW4 always opens in code view.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 17, 2013 10:55 PM   in reply to packet_header

    Why do you feel like you have to justify yourself to us then? My motto is: whatever works best for you! :-)

     

    As for myself, I require a true IDE (integrated development environment), not just a text/html code editor, because I want/need full PHP debugging, advanced js/php framework support and excellent versioning. I never worked in DW's visual WYSIKWYG (k=kinda) view.

     

    From the responses you can tell that we all have our own preferences when coding.

     

    If DW works best for you, more power to you. Although I do not use DW in my classes anymore, I do have a number of students that also like DW to code with. And the best thing is: we have a choice, which is the most important thing.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 17, 2013 10:59 PM   in reply to Herbert2001

    Btw, it is a real shame Fireworks' development has been killed by Adobe. Really liked (still ike) it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 18, 2013 1:01 AM   in reply to packet_header

    I still use BBEdit some of the time. But then I also use Filezilla sometimes too. It all depends on what else I have going on. Someitmes it's easier to open a simple editor of FTP client when I'm editiing audio or video files and have to make or upload an edit.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 18, 2013 6:55 AM   in reply to Mike M

    I tried Aptana once but that is the most bloated code editor I've ever come across.  Was using as much, if not more memory then DW and did half as much.  The only web related program I use a lot that crosses over DW is Transmit.  No other FTP program comes close to it.

     
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    Aug 18, 2013 1:12 PM   in reply to SnakEyez02

    Hi,

     

    When you read the manual and specially the instructions about optimizing Aptanas memory it is a peace of cake to change it.

     

    http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/-/9781849518246/1dot-getting-star ted/ch01s06_html

     

    I have to admit that it is stupid that it installs not optimized! But when it's all set proper it works flawlessly and much faster then Dreamweaver.

     

    Specially with frameworks like Foundation 4 and Bootstrap 3.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 18, 2013 11:33 PM   in reply to packet_header

    The problem with DW now is it's lost its way. Was once the market leader but is now drowning a slow death. The people at Adobe have been sitting on their backsides for far too long counting the money rolling in whilst other companies have been developing software for the future. Adobe in the case of DW introduce rubbish like spry (which is now dead in the water) and now fluid grids which uses a sledgehammer to crack a nut...it will die too in a couple of years and leave those currently using it stranded. Instead of concentration on what customers actually want from the program they are all over the place, throwing in a lot of junk whilst not updating vital components which has served the software well over the years. It's total shortsightedness.   

    .

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2013 3:55 AM   in reply to packet_header

    When I look at Dreamweaver naked without the extensions I use from Projectseven, DMXzone, Webassist and Linecraft there is nothing left over that has much value for webdesign
    /development.

     

    If it's only about writing code and development (PHP and JavaScript debugging) there are fare better alternatives out there that cost 1/10 of the price of Dreamweaver or are even free..

     

    This is also a interesting read: http://forums.adobe.com/message/5538865#5538865

     

    So it is not so strange that when you ask the question you did you will get reactions like the one from me and others on this forum.

     

    Maybe there is always a underlying hope that someone from Adobe reads it and draws conclusions out of it and creates a modern up to date Dreamweaver, but I doubt that will happen.

     

    The market is probably to small for Adobe and Dreaweaver will die like Fireworks did this year.

     

    I still have Dreamweaver CS 5.5 and don't see any reason to upgrade (the extensions from the above named companies will continue to update and upgrade!!!). I use Aptana and Sublime text 2/3 next to it.

     

    Most of the time I end up with Aptana.

     

    The "problems" people experience with Aptana lay  in the fact that they find it normal that it takes a couple of months to learn the basics of Dreamweaver, but don't spend more then a couple of hours without reading a online manual or a instruction book to find out that Atana doesn't work. Well I can tell you it does! It only needs some proper configuration just like any software program (I use it on Mac and Windows!) It has 100ths of plugins and possibilities that go fare above all possibilities Dreamweaver can offer you.

     

    http://www.amazon.com/Aptana-Studio-Beginners-Thomas-Deuling/dp/184951 8246/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376908194&sr=8-1&keywords=aptana

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 4:18 AM   in reply to Herbert2001

    Herbert2001 wrote:

     

    If DW works best for you, more power to you. Although I do not use DW in my classes anymore, I do have a number of students that also like DW to code with. And the best thing is: we have a choice, which is the most important thing.

    Well said.

     

    I find it interesting that this type of thread always attracts a bunch of comments from people who insist Dreamweaver is out of date or dying. If they think so, why do they spend time reading and responding in the Dreamweaver forum?

     

    Dreamweaver has plenty of faults, but it produces clean, standards-compliant code (if used correctly). Also, one of its greatest strengths is its extensibility. The extensions created by Project Seven, DMXZone, and others make Dreamweaver far more powerful than the base program.

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 4:26 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    Because they hope that maybe something will change for the better.

     

    Besides the fact that I have all your books and like them very much I expected some more criticism  from you!

     

    The extensions are not made by Adobe and work in older versions as well and keep them up to date.

     

    What interesting feature has come from adobe lately in Dreamweaver that makes it a must have!? The removal of functions without offering alternatives!?

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 4:41 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    I find it interesting that this type of thread always attracts a bunch of comments from people who insist Dreamweaver is out of date or dying. If they think so, why do they spend time reading and responding in the Dreamweaver forum?

     

     

    I guess in the faint hope that Adobe will respond by giving those that still use DW what they want before its too late.

     

    Also I think there is a lack of wanting to learn new software but if Adobe doesnt quickly get its act together there wont be a choice in the matter.

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 4:44 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    Herbert2001 wrote:

     

    If DW works best for you, more power to you. Although I do not use DW in my classes anymore, I do have a number of students that also like DW to code with. And the best thing is: we have a choice, which is the most important thing.

    Also, one of its greatest strengths is its extensibility. The extensions created by Project Seven, DMXZone, and others make Dreamweaver far more powerful than the base program.

     

    And that's just the point a software program which is becoming more and more reliant on 3rd party extentions is the sign a crumbling empire.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2013 4:47 AM   in reply to BITESBITER

    BITESBITER wrote:

     

    I expected some more criticism  from you!

    Why? Criticism doesn't have to be destructive. In fact, negative criticism is rarely effective. As an author of books and video training courses about Dreamweaver, I've participated in beta testing for many years. What goes on in the beta forums is private, but I don't pull any punches in the feedback I give to the Adobe engineers and product management.

     

    If you're hoping for Dreamweaver to improve, become active in reporting bugs and proposing new features. The journey to a better Dreamweaver starts here: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform.

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 5:04 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    And what has changed in Dreamweaver development during the years!?

     

    Not much! O yes They had to put a 3, 4, 5, 5.5 and 6 after the CS.

     

    If nobody from Adobe takes the time to see what their clients think about a product on the forums and there is only a form to fill in, they really missed how people communicate now a days!

     

    But that they don't know how to communicate is proved by the whole CC scam!

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 6:07 AM   in reply to BITESBITER

    You're obviously still using tables, APDivs and inline styling in html1.0 docs if you think the CS number is all that's changed since 2004. Perhaps if you were taking advantage of the new features and technologies in web development and not writing pages that look like they just emerged from a 1998 time warp, you'd have a litle more appreciation of what's been done and added. I'm no fan of CC, but not for the sme reason you are. I have a major distrust of anything "cloud", and I still doubt they have the bugs all worked out. I'd love to "get in there" and help work those bugs out, but I've NEVER participated in a "beta" where I had to pay to take part, so call it principle that I'm waiting for everyone else to "get it right" before I take this leap.

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 6:16 AM   in reply to BITESBITER

    BITESBITER wrote:

     

    And what has changed in Dreamweaver development during the years!?

     

    Not much! O yes They had to put a 3, 4, 5, 5.5 and 6 after the CS.

    If that's what you think, Adobe has certainly failed to get its message across. I can't remember everything, but here's a list off the top of my head:

     

    CS3:

    • Spry widgets, data sets, and effects
    • Automated conversion of inline styles to style rules
    • Integration with third-party file comparison utility
    • Integration with Adobe Bridge

    CS4:

    • Live view
    • Live code
    • Related files toolbar
    • Code navigator
    • Removal of Layout mode
    • Subversion integration

    CS5

    • PHP syntax checking
    • Full integration of PHP documentation in code hints
    • Code introspection for PHP and JavaScript functions
    • jQuery code hint support

    CS5.5

    • Support for HTML5 elements
    • Support for many CSS3 properties and selectors
    • Multiscreen preview panel
    • Site-wide media queries
    • jQuery Mobile
    • PhoneGap

    CS6

    • Fluid Grid Layouts
    • CSS Transitions panel
    • Support for web fonts
    • PhoneGap Build integration

    CC

    • CSS Designer panel
    • Support for CSS gradients
    • Integration of Edge Web Fonts
    • Significant improvements to Fluid Grid Layouts
    • Replacement of Spry widgets and effects by jQuery UI
    • Synchronization with Creative Cloud

     

    Alejandro Gutierrez, the Dreamweaver product manager, announced that an update to Dreamweaver CC will be released "very soon", so more changes are on the way.

     

    Were all the changes successful? No. Spry and Fluid Grid Layouts might have been good ideas at the time they were conceived, but implementation and follow-up was poor. In my opinion, Dreamweaver CS6 was the weakest release. There was only a one-year gap between it and CS5.5, and far too much time was spent on trying to develop the Fluid Grid Layouts.

     

    I think a weakness in Dreamweaver's strategy has been to try to create "simple" solutions for people who don't want to spend time diving into code. It fell into that trap because HTML, CSS, and JavaScript stagnated for much of the early 2000s. When HTML5, CSS3, and modern JavaScript took off around 2006, Dreamweaver took a long time to adapt. But don't forget that Spry was introduced when jQuery was in the early stages of development.

     

    Whatever you think of Adobe's communications policies, you're not going to get improvements to Dreamweaver simply by posting negative comments in the forum. Tell Adobe what it is that you want to see in Dreamweaver. The best way to do so is through the feature request form. But if you don't want to do that, start a thread here with your wishlist. If it generates sufficient support from others, I've no doubt that Preran or another Adobe staff member will draw it to the attention of the product management team. But don't forget that this is a user-to-user forum. It's not intended as a direct method of communication with Adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2013 6:42 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    But don't forget that this is a user-to-user forum. It's not intended as a direct method of communication with Adobe.

     

    Maybe the development team should start taking the forum seriously as a communication sounding board then as this is where real users (yes, real users, not Beta testers) express their views, good and bad about the product. It's rather strange in my opinion that they would bury their heads in the sand given the real world users that communicate with each other here, how can that be a postive step.

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 8:18 AM   in reply to osgood_

    osgood_ wrote:

     

    Maybe the development team should start taking the forum seriously as a communication sounding board then as this is where real users (yes, real users, not Beta testers) express their views, good and bad about the product.

    What a brilliant idea. Tell the development team to drop what they're doing, and spend their time reading the forum. Yes, it might generate a few useful ideas, but I think their time is better spent on actually improving the program. That's why there's a feature request form. Anything submitted through that form goes directly to the product team. It's a direct channel of communication.

     

    As for beta testers, it might come as a surprise that they actually use Dreamweaver on a daily basis for creating all sorts of websites. There are a handful of authors, like myself, who get access to the beta program. But even we use Dreamweaver to build websites. Anyone can apply to become a beta tester. The application form is here: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=prerelease_interes t. I don't know if Dreamweaver beta testers are being actively recruited at the moment. A large number of new people were recruited several months ago. But if you're interested in helping guide the direction of Dreamweaver, apply. Your MVP status should certainly help.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2013 8:47 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    CS3:

    • Spry widgets, data sets, and effects
    • Automated conversion of inline styles to style rules
    • Integration with third-party file comparison utility
    • Integration with Adobe Bridge

    CS4:

    • Live view
    • Live code
    • Related files toolbar
    • Code navigator
    • Removal of Layout mode
    • Subversion integration

    CS5

    • PHP syntax checking
    • Full integration of PHP documentation in code hints
    • Code introspection for PHP and JavaScript functions
    • jQuery code hint support

    CS5.5

    • Support for HTML5 elements
    • Support for many CSS3 properties and selectors
    • Multiscreen preview panel
    • Site-wide media queries
    • jQuery Mobile
    • PhoneGap

    CS6

    • Fluid Grid Layouts
    • CSS Transitions panel
    • Support for web fonts
    • PhoneGap Build integration

    CC

    • CSS Designer panel
    • Support for CSS gradients
    • Integration of Edge Web Fonts
    • Significant improvements to Fluid Grid Layouts
    • Replacement of Spry widgets and effects by jQuery UI
    • Synchronization with Creative Cloud

     

    IN SHORT ADOBE WAS ALWAYS YEARS TO LATE WITH DEVELOPMENTS LEAVING THE COMPETITION WITH THE NEW FEATURES YEARS BEFORE, RESULTING NOW IN A EXPENSIVE OUTDATED EXTENSION PLAYER.

     

    Example:CC jQuery UI replaced Spry Widgets now! Wow! jQuery has only been available for years now and everybody is already using it for years. And that is the case for most  features. Or they are years to late or totally useless!!!

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 8:49 AM   in reply to Mike M

    No I went to a other applications from other companies at the time (or had to invest in extensions) to be able to keep up with the technical  up to date serious developments because Adobe always left me in the dark when at the same time the technology was already there and I'm not talking about a useless trendy gimmick but something already excepted and used for years by the developers/designers community world wide.

     

    This happened version after version till now when I look at the new  features CC offers. Those features are years to late!!! Or useless!

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 8:50 AM   in reply to Mike M

    C F McBlob wrote:

     

    I'd love to "get in there" and help work those bugs out, but I've NEVER participated in a "beta" where I had to pay to take part, so call it principle that I'm waiting for everyone else to "get it right" before I take this leap.

    Hi

     

    You do NOT have to pay to take part in the 'beta tester' program, and if you do require a particular feature, (e.g. access to the Creative Cloud) it is provided for you, (though it is limited to testing that product).

     

    The main problems with being a beta tester are -

    1. Finding bugs in features one does not normally use, and this is why people like David are invaluable, as they will use features when preparing tutorials that the average tester may seldom use.

     

    and

    2. Deciding how any new feature should work.

     

    It is not enough to say, "I want Dw to support features 'XYZ'", it is necessary to try and think of how the feature should work, and if anything else should or could be included into the feature.

     

    Most beta testers are, (or aim to be) full time web designers, and vary in experience from students, to large-scale project managers.

     

    PZ

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 8:53 AM   in reply to BITESBITER

    BITESBITER wrote:

     

    IN SHORT ADOBE WAS ALWAYS YEARS TO LATE WITH DEVELOPMENTS LEAVING THE COMPETITION WITH THE NEW FEATURES YEARS BEFORE, RESULTING NOW IN A EXPENSIVE OUTDATED EXTENSION PLAYER.

    That's a legitimate criticism of Dreamweaver, but your original point was that nothing had changed apart from the version number. A lot has changed, even if you feel those changes don't match your needs (or those of the wider web development community).

     

    I go back to my original point that what's puzzling is that people who don't like Dreamweaver find so much time to visit the forum and slag it off. It suggests that deep down you'd like Dreamweaver to be better, maybe because the alternatives don't offer all the features that you want. I know that some people love Sublime Text for its code editing features, so they switch between DW and Sublime Text depending on their needs.

     

    But just complaining that Dreamweaver is outdated and expensive won't get the improvements you want. You need to say exactly what features would convince you to make it your main web development/design tool.

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 8:59 AM   in reply to pziecina

    I wasn't referring to an actual "beta", but rather the fact that a lot of stuff (and it can't be denied) with CC, across the spectrum... isn't working quite like it should, or like Adobe (and it's customers) had hoped it would, when they launched the Creative Cloud, much like a beta release.

     

    I've beta'd software for Adobe, Intuit, Microsoft, Roxio, Norton and AVG over the years. Trying to troubleshoot the stuff that doesn't work right in CC (post-release) would be akin to "beta" testing in my book, and at $19.99 a year minimum for each and every product, that's a pretty expensive "beta".  No thanks, I'll pass. My CS6 and CS5.5 work and they're already paid for.

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 9:26 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    That was of course a cynical statement!

     

    And to get back to the topic "Do you use any other editor still?" , that's the reason I started using Aptana studio 3 and Sublime text 2/3 next to Dreamweaver.

     

    Nothing negative about that!

     

    It's a shame that the most expensive tool (Dreamweaver) got so behind all the time, forcing people like me to look around for other solutions.

     

    The reason why I still hang around here is because I invested in "the Master Collection" and more from Adobe (and tons of extensions) and have the hope

    maybe something will change in the future!

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 9:42 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    osgood_ wrote:

     

    Maybe the development team should start taking the forum seriously as a communication sounding board then as this is where real users (yes, real users, not Beta testers) express their views, good and bad about the product.

    What a brilliant idea. Tell the development team to drop what they're doing, and spend their time reading the forum.

     

     

    It doesn't take that long to identify the really problematical threads and those that require little time allocated to them which could be communicated to the people that really need to know but alas they are probably more interested in counting their money or playing golf than actually what their customers have to say.

     

     

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    osgood_ wrote:

     

    Maybe the development team should start taking the forum seriously as a communication sounding board then as this is where real users (yes, real users, not Beta testers) express their views, good and bad about the product.

    That's why there's a feature request form. Anything submitted through that form goes directly to the product team. It's a direct channel of communication.

     

    Obviously it's not working....we'll not to the satisfaction of many users.

     

     

     

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    As for beta testers, it might come as a surprise that they actually use Dreamweaver on a daily basis for creating all sorts of websites. There are a handful of authors, like myself, who get access to the beta program. But even we use Dreamweaver to build websites.

     

    Beta testers are by nature testers who miss many things because they don't have a broad enough outlook on what problems arise. Didn't any of the beta testers kick up a stink about the server behaviours being dropped and didn't they push for something to replace them. If so they didn't do a very good job....so who do they actually represent...oh yes Adobe again. Did they not inform the development team the fluid grid system was inferior and yet it still saw the light of day until its killed off in I predict a couple of versions time because its so bad. I guess youre correct, beta testers really do have a handle on whats going on.

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 10:05 AM   in reply to osgood_

    osgood_ wrote:

     

    It doesn't take that long to identify the really problematical threads and those that require little time allocated to them which could be communicated to the people that really need to know but alas they are probably more interested in counting their money or playing golf than actually what their customers have to say.

    The engineering team is based in Bangalore, India, where I think it's too hot to spend several hours on the golf course. Whatever they spend all their time doing, I don't know. What I do know is that they work incredibly long hours. I get emails from engineers late at night their time. It's also common for engineers to respond to questions in the beta forums on Saturdays and Sundays.

    osgood_ wrote:

     

    Beta testers are by nature testers who miss many things because they don't have a broad enough outlook on what problems arise. Didn't any of the beta testers kick up a stink about the server behaviours being dropped and didn't they push for something to replace them. If so they didn't do a very good job....so who do they actually represent...oh yes Adobe again. Did they not inform the development team the fluid grid system was inferior and yet it still saw the light of day until its killed off in I predict a couple of versions time because its so bad. I guess youre correct, beta testers really do have a handle on whats going on.

    The discussions that take place in the beta forums are confidential. What I can tell you is that they are often just as vigorous as some of the threads in this forum. The major difference is that they tend to offer constructive criticism, suggesting alternative approaches, or warning Adobe of the consequences of a particular course of action. The beta testers are not Adobe patsies. Many features have been radically rethought as a result of beta feedback. But at the end of the day, the decisions are made by Adobe.

     
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    Aug 19, 2013 10:27 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    osgood_ wrote:

     

    It doesn't take that long to identify the really problematical threads and those that require little time allocated to them which could be communicated to the people that really need to know but alas they are probably more interested in counting their money or playing golf than actually what their customers have to say.

    The engineering team is based in Bangalore, India, where I think it's too hot to spend several hours on the golf course. Whatever they spend all th

     

    Humm..... why am I not surprised, sounds like a disaster to me. Sounds like one of those call centres where no one really has a clue what's going on and calls themselves Bob. Money saving I guess and not investing it back into the product.

     

     

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    osgood_ wrote:

     

    Beta testers are by nature testers who miss many things because they don't have a broad enough outlook on what problems arise. Didn't any of the beta testers kick up a stink about the server behaviours being dropped and didn't they push for something to replace them. If so they didn't do a very good job....so who do they actually represent...oh yes Adobe again. Did they not inform the development team the fluid grid system was inferior and yet it still saw the light of day until its killed off in I predict a couple of versions time because its so bad. I guess youre correct, beta testers really do have a handle on whats going on.

    The discussions that take place in the beta forums are confidential. What I can tell you is that they are often just as vigorous as some of the threads in this forum. The major difference is that they tend to offer constructive criticism, suggesting alternative approaches, or warning Adobe of the consequences of a particular course of action. The beta testers are not Adobe patsies. Many features have been radically rethought as a result of beta feedback. But at the end of the day, the decisions are made by Adobe.

     

    Many are offering constructive critisism in my opinion. Not sure what is not constructive about 'hey where's the server behaviours gone because for us they are an integral part of our development process'. To be informed - oh sorry we wasted all our time introducing Spry, Fluid Grids and a myriad of other minor updates, which as you say yourself are well serviced by 3rd pary extention makers,  it's going to annoy some people.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2013 10:31 AM   in reply to David_Powers

    Whats with the reply now needing to be approved by a moderator?

     

    Oh dear I must have upset someone. What a joke.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2013 3:05 PM   in reply to osgood_

    osgood_ wrote:

     

    Sounds like one of those call centres where no one really has a clue what's going on and calls themselves Bob. Money saving I guess and not investing it back into the product.

    Sorry, os, that type of comment is completely out of order. Judging the quality of work purely on the basis of where someone lives or works borders on discrimination. I've met many of the engineering team in person (at Adobe MAX), and I have regular conference calls with them. They are both extremely bright and dedicated.

     

    osgood_ wrote:

    Many are offering constructive critisism in my opinion. Not sure what is not constructive about 'hey where's the server behaviours gone because for us they are an integral part of our development process'.

    Of course there's some constructive criticism, but this thread has been entirely negative. The removal of the server behaviors has, no doubt, impacted some people. But anyone with a reasonably good understanding of web development trends should have realized many years ago that server behaviors failed to keep pace with developments. When PHP 5 was first released in 2004, I began lobbying Macromedia to switch to MySQLi and/or PDO. If more people had done so, the outcome might have been quite different. As I've said many times before, unless you tell the Dreamweaver team directly what you want from the program (through the online form or by becoming a beta tester), your ideas will be just chaff in the wind.

     

    As for the need for moderation, there's nothing sinister about it. My original post also required moderation. Apparently, one or more words that you quoted from my post triggered a spam filter.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2013 4:30 PM   in reply to David_Powers

    I recently upgraded to ZEND server 6.1 and PHP 5.4 and am now having issues with Zend Studio 7.1, so I have been following this thread because I am actively researching PHP IDEs.

     

    Although I have been using Zend Studio for a few years, I end up using DW much of the time. I simply like the interface and I prefer some of the ways DW does things. For instance, I like the balance braces feature in DW better than the comperable feature in ZS.If I'm not doing serious debugging, I prefer to write code in DW.

     

    I have never used Spry or behaviors in DW. Although I spend my time in code view, it's nice to have design view to switch to in order to locate somethining or make a quick change to html text.

     

    I think I need to find a PHP/Javascript IDE I can live with and stop using DW. Ultimately I don't think DW was ever intended to be a tool for serverside scripters.

     

    All that being said, I think it isn't hard to understand the development direction of DW. Adobe has tried to make web technologies that normally require a programmer available to non-programmers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 19, 2013 11:25 PM   in reply to David_Powers

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    osgood_ wrote:

     

    Sounds like one of those call centres where no one really has a clue what's going on and calls themselves Bob. Money saving I guess and not investing it back into the product.

    Sorry, os, that type of comment is completely out of order. Judging the quality of work purely on the basis of where someone lives or works borders on discrimination. I've met many of the engineering team in person (at Adobe MAX), and I have regular conference calls with them. They are both extremely bright and dedicated.

     

     

    If I offended anyone personally then of course I apologise to them. I don't give a hoot if I offend Adobe as a whole or their senior management. It's not discrimination at all. I'm basing my thoughts on if the people are up to the job. Given the poor reputation some overseas companies have as a result of employees not having been trained to a high enough grade, it's debatable. It's NOT the fault or bad reflection on those those employees or where they are based it's the fault of Company decisions taken at a higher level, which nearly always result in poor quality for their customers.

     

     

    osgood_ wrote:

    Many are offering constructive critisism in my opinion. Not sure what is not constructive about 'hey where's the server behaviours gone because for us they are an integral part of our development process'.

    Of course there's some constructive criticism, but this thread has been entirely negative. The removal of the server behaviors has, no doubt, impacted some people. But anyone with a reasonably good understanding of web development trends should have realized many years ago that server behaviors failed to keep pace with developments.

     

     

    Well that's exactly my point and many others, why didn't Adobe realise this and act upon it. You yourself wrote a book you say 3 years ago covering the subject...Adobe have had at least 3 years to do something about it. They didn't so you can hardly expect those who rely on them to be singing their praises can you.

     

    For me it's not a big issue really BUT I do realise it is for many who don't want to get into manual coding. DW offered an environment for those people then pulled the rug.

     

     

    David_Powers wrote:

     

    As for the need for moderation, there's nothing sinister about it. My original post also required moderation. Apparently, one or more words that you quoted from my post triggered a spam filter.

    Ok that's fine.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2013 2:40 AM   in reply to packet_header

    packet_header do you  read what is on this forum before you start writing nonsense!?

     

    I don't hate Dreamweaver never wrote I did.

     

    Only explained that I use some IDE's next to it to answer the question from this topic!

     

    Do you expect people to use a editor next to Dreamweaver when Dreamweaver is a 100% perfect!? Or why do think the question was asked by your self!?

     

    I'm very critical towards Dreamweaver ( part of the Master Collection I have and more also tested several Adobe products) as a product and I think I am entitled to be that, because of all

    the money time and effort I have spend in it during the last years.

     

    Products never got any better from fanboy's only telling how great a product is, but need criticism to get it changed.

     

    From CS3 till now all "New Features" arive years to late in the new versions even today in CC is Jquery UI presented as a new feature and at the same time it has been around for years (and available for download or implemented in extensions that you can purchase) and used by every serious designer/developer.

     

    QUOTE FROM  osgood:

     

    The problem with DW now is it's lost its way. Was once the market leader but is now drowning a slow death. The people at Adobe have been sitting on their backsides for far too long counting the money rolling in whilst other companies have been developing software for the future. Adobe in the case of DW introduce rubbish like spry (which is now dead in the water) and now fluid grids which uses a sledgehammer to crack a nut...it will die too in a couple of years and leave those currently using it stranded. Instead of concentration on what customers actually want from the program they are all over the place, throwing in a lot of junk whilst not updating vital components which has served the software well over the years. It's total shortsightedness.

     

    Describes exactly the situation that go's on for years!

     

    And you don't have to dictate me what I have to do or how to reply to a question and certainly not what editor I have to use!

     

    When you can't sleep because of criticism against  Dreamweaver don't read what is on this forum after 18:00 and don't ask questions like that anymore!!!.

     

    Or do you need other people to justify the fact that you use Dreamweaver and can't stand to be in doubt about it with free or cheaper editors around you because you did not do your homework before buying/renting it?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2013 3:52 AM   in reply to BITESBITER

    BITESBITER wrote:

     

    Products never got any better from fanboy's only telling how great a product is, but need criticism to get it changed.

    True, but I've read through all of your comments in this thread. They seem to boil down to the following:

    • Dreamweaver fails to keep up with the latest developments in web technology
    • Aptana is faster, but it needs to be optimized
    • Without third-party extensions, Dreamweaver has little to offer for web design/development
    • It's expensive

    They're all valid criticisms. What's missing  is a sense of what features you would like to see in Dreamweaver.

     

    I personally think that chasing after canned solutions like Fluid Grid Layouts, jQuery UI widgets, and server behaviors is a waste of time. Most frameworks have a limited lifespan. New ideas come along all the time. Dreamweaver needs to concentrate on the core technologies rather than trying to anticipate the next seven-day wonder. Thought needs to be given to making it easy to work with emerging CSS3 features, such as multi-column layout, flexbox, grid layout, and 3D transformations. More needs to be done to improve working in Code view. Dreamweaver should also be capable of debugging JavaScript and PHP.

     

    Those are my views, which I've communicated directly to Adobe. I've no idea if they'll act on them, but at least I've told them where my priorities lie. Now you've said what you think is wrong with Dreamweaver, it would help if you focused on what you think is necessary to make it more suited to your needs. I communicate regularly with the development team, and would be happy to pass on your ideas to them.

     
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