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Bill Tate
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Red frames in mpeg2 clip when imported into PE7 timeline

Aug 21, 2013 3:00 PM

When I play MPEG2 clips with windows media player they are fine. I made these clips some time ago with PE7 and I have never had a problem. Now, when I import a movie clip there are red frames and some pixallation at random. I am beginning to wonder if a recent update might have caused this change. I could use another program to burn thes combined clips but I wont be able to edit/control like I can in PE7. I have teo new computers running PE7 and they both are doing this. But both have had recent automatic updates too. I have burned Blu-ray discs before with no problem at all.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2013 3:20 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Take

     

    There was a 1/2 wmv display related to a recent Windows Update kb. You can check the Announcement at the top of this forum for that. For your convenience, here is a copy/paste of that announcement

    Announcement: Windows Update Causes Half of Display to Be Blacked Out

    MicroSoft has issued an Update for Windows, that is causing problems with Displays. The following is from Talbot McInnis, who tracked down this problem, and offers a fix:

     

    "MS bulliten MS13-057.  Specifically, on XP kb2834904 and on windows 7 kb2803821 is causing a problem

    .

    For us, it occurs when decoding WMV9 files.  Not all uses of WMV decoding are affected, but I confirmed that when connecting the WMV decode DLL to a sample grabber for RGB32 video, the frames arrive black on top, so that points directly to decoding internals of the WMV Decode dll.

     

    You can uninstall these windows updates to resolve your problem."

     

    There are several threads on the problem that this Update is causing on the PrE and PrPro Forums, so one can get more details. So far, there is not another fix from either MS, or Adobe.

     

    Also, see this Adobe KB Article: http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/wmv-files-corrupted-import-or.h tml

     

    Todd Kopriva has posted that the MS "revised" Update has been released:

     

    It appears that Microsoft has issued the fixed update:

    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms13-057

     

    See the "Update FAQ" section:

    "Why was this bulletin revised on August 13, 2013?

    Microsoft revised this bulletin to rerelease the 2803821 update for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2.

     

    The rereleased update addresses an application compatibility issue in which WMV encoded video could fail to properly render during playback. Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 customers should install the rereleased update."

      by Bill Hunt (Aug 13, 2013)

     

    If that does not apply to your situation, the you might check out any recent antivirus updates. We did have one use recently who reported such an event. I think the antivirus was McAfee.

     

    There is the classic question...is your video card driver up to date according to the web site of the manufacturer of your video card?

     

    By any chance is your Premiere Elements 7 on Windows 8 64 bit? The MPEG2 video codec in Windows 8 could be an issue there.

     

    What is the file extension of your file with the MPEG2 video compression....mpg or other?

     

    Please check out the above and then let us know the results.

     

    Thank you.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2013 4:35 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill,

     

    I most often see references to "red frames," when one has done a Capture (either SD, or HDV miniDV tape), and there are Dropped Frames. Those "red frames" are basically "placeholders," showing where the Dropped Frames were located, so that one can retain sync, but then can directly address the Dropped Frames (often by Deleting them, plus the underlying Audio - but the editor has the opportunity to decide the best workflow).

     

    Your MPEG-2 files came from an Export/Share, i.e. output, so I am not sure what would cause PrE to display red frames, and especially when players are not showing such.

     

    I hope that ATR, Steve G, or others, will have some knowledge, and can offer help for YOUR red frames.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2013 4:41 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Tate

     

    Still thinking about your latest report, but what computer operating system are you working on?

     

    And, what is the file extension for the file with the MPEG2 video compression as well as the frame size, frame rate, pixel aspect ratio?

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2013 6:08 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Tate

     

    But,

     

    Would it be possible to post a screenshot of what you are seeing? We have established that the video compression for your file is MPEG2. Correct? But, on this side, we have not established the file extension, frame size, frame rate, pixel aspect ratio.

     

    I am trying to focus in on what you mean by "The red frames are appearing on the photo/slideshow part of the video" by taking a look at what you are looking at in this regard.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 30, 2013 6:56 AM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Tate

     

    Is it possible for you to get a small sample of the problem video to us? I know you think the problem is in your Windows Updates, but I would like to see how that problem video would fare in my computer with Premiere Elements 7 as well as other versions of Premiere Elements. If you work with Dropbox, perhaps you could post a Dropbox link in your post so that we could download the sample from the Dropbox site.

     

    If you prefer not to do that and just continue with your present course of action, we will be watching for further developments.

     

    Thanks for the follow ups.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 30, 2013 9:53 AM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Take

     

    Thanks for the screenshot with the Timeline displaying red thumbnails for those MPEG2 video files.

     

    With the assumption that my Windows 7 64 bit would have the same Windows Updates as yours,

     

    a. Created MPEG2.mpg and MPEG2.m2t files (1920 x 1080) in Premiere Elements 11 and then imported those files into my Premiere Elements 7 on the same computer. No red thumbnails for those MPEG2 files.

    b. Then I created MPEG2.mpg and MPEG2.m2t files in Premiere Elements 7 and then imported them back into Premiere Elements 7. No red thumbnails for those MPEG2 files.

     

    The puzzlement is that you say that you get these red thumbnails for those MPEG2 files whether Premiere Elements 7 is on the present computer or another. Am I correct in that?

     

    Please excuse if this is a repeat of something that you already stated, but please remind me..is this problem confined to just these older MPEG2 files or, if you were to create new MPEG2 exports from Premiere Elements 7 and reimport them into Premiere Elements 7, do you get red thumbnails for these?

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 31, 2013 4:56 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Take

     

    I repaired all the red frames in one of the imported videos

    If you have said already, how did you do what I have quoted above?

     

    When you wrote

    the problem shows up ONLY on the slideshow/photo segment and not at all on the camcorder part.

    Please confirm

     

    a. What is the orgin of this slideshow/photo segment? Is it Photoshop Elements Slideshow Editor slideshow outputted to Premiere Elements 7 OR photos arranged in slideshow in Premiere Elements workspace or its Elements Organizer and outputted to Premiere Elements.

     

    b. Is the slideshow/photo segment on the Timeline in the MPEG2.mpg file as part of a MPEG2.mpg file where the camcorder contribution to this file is fine?

     

    b. Or is the slideshow/photo segment on the Timeline in a slideshow editor format, like psess? What am I looking at in the way of Timeline formats in the screenshot that you show in post 10?

     

    Not sure if any of the above will target the core, but thought I would ask just in case since nothing else has revealed the cause of the problem.

     

    In the name of troubleshooting only, would be it worth your while to download and install the free 30 day tryout of Premiere Elements 11 in order to determine the version specificity of the issue?

     

    ATR

     

    What is your anti-virus program and does it share across all 3 computers?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2013 7:34 AM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill,

     

    Just for clarification, you start with a PrE Project, add Still Images, and Video Clips, plus some MP3 Audio. You then output that Timeline to MPG-2 (did not notice if this was MPEG-2 DVD, or something else, but you do mention BD, so it could be MPEG-2 HD). Then, you Import those MPEG-2 files into another PrE Project, for additional editing. It is at that point, with the MPEG-2 "intermediate files," that the red Frames appear, but only in PrE. Is that correct?

     

    Are there any other steps, that might affect those MPEG-2 files, such as any conversion, or editing in other programs?

     

    It sounds like those MPEG-2 files were output from PrE 7 sometime ago, and you are now attempting to do additional editing with them. Is that correct?

     

    From what I have been able to gather from your posts, the red Frames are ONLY appearing where your original Timeline had Still Images in it, and not where your original Timeline had Video. Is that also correct?

     

    The big difference with Video, that is created from Still Images is that one has "synthetic" Video. It's like Video of a Color Matte, or Black Video. It is created as Video by the editing program. Now, synthetic Video can cause problems with some programs, but I could not find a reference to red Frames being one of those issues, but might have just missed those. I keep puzzling over why any synthetic Video would cause an issue for PrE later, but cannot come up with one. In the case of the Still Images, though converted to synthetic Video, by PrE, when the Project was first edited, I do not see why there would be an issue. Actuall, unless you have animation, such as a Pan and/or Zoom, those Stills do not have any change in them (other than perhaps at the point of a Transition), so one I-Frame, followed by the Difference Frames, would show no "difference." However, it seems that it's some issue with those Difference Frames, that you are seeing.

     

    Addressing the paragraph above, and the observations made in it, I have a question about the red Frames. With a GOP structure, one would have the I-Frame, followed by between ~12 and ~18 Difference Frames, then another I-Frame, followed by the same number of Difference Frames, and so on. Let's just say that in your case, the GOP structure is one I-Frame, and then 15 Difference Frames, then another I-Frame and 15 Difference Frames, repeated for the Duration of that Still Image in the MPEG-2 Clip. If it is the Difference Frames, causing the issue, I would expect to see something like this: I-Frame (looks good), then ~ 15 red Frames, then another good I-Frame, followed by ~ 15 red Frames. However, it does not sound like you are seeing another "good Frame," once the red Frames start. Is that correct - as soon as the red Frames start, the continue completely through the Duration of that Still Image?

     

    Also, since you are no longer working with Still Images, but with the MPEG-2 Video, created originally from those Still Images, is this what you are seeing: First I-Frame OK, then only red Frames for the entire portion of the MPEG-2, that was created from various Still Images - no more good Frames, until your original Timeline goes to what was Video, i.e. once the red Frames start with a series of Still Images, they continue until the original source changes to Video?

     

    I am trying to confirm that we have your exact workflow in front of us.

     

    As MPEG-2 uses a GOP (Group Of Pictures) structure, there can be issues, when one Cuts one, not on one of the I-Frames, but on one of the Difference Frames, BUT that usually shows as "black video," as the Difference Frame only has data on how that Frame differs from what was in the previous I-Frame. Because of the GOP structure, MPEG-2 Video is not an ideal format to do additional editing. For more info on GOP structure, see this article: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/544204

     

    PrE (all versions, at least since PrE 3) must create all I-Frame footage, to be able to edit, at a Frame-specific level. It could be that during this "conversion" (internal, and not really seen as such by the user), something is going wrong. Still, the only references to "red Frames," that I can find, is when one is doing a Capture, and there are dropped Frames. The Premiere programs basically add those to the Video, so that sync is maintained. They indicate dropped Frames, and need to be addressed - the red color is to make them stand out, to help the person editing, recognize them. I can find no reference to red Frames, other than with the above situation. That does not mean that there are not other instances, or causes, but they must not be THAT common.

     

    When dealing with MPEG-2 footage, I have seen various visual problems, with the conversion of the GOP structure to full I-Frame, but never the red Frames. The issues usually manifest themselves as heavily pixelated Frames, somewhere in the Difference Frame segments - sort of like when you digital TV gets a weak digital signal, and the image sort of breaks up into "blocks," until the strength and quality of the signal is restored - still not red Frames, like you have.

     

    Though not addressing the problem that you are encountering now, with your existing MPEG-2 footage (you already have that, and the Projects, which created them, might well not be available to you), in a perfect world, a better workflow would have been something like this:

     

    For an SD (Standard Definition) Project, create that with the Still Images, the Video and the Audio. When done, output that material to DV-AVI, for use in later Projects. An alternate would be to output to one of the lossless CODEC's, like Lagarith, or UT Lossless. This circumvents the Encoding to the GOP MPEG-2 format, thus preserving quality, due to the heavy compression of MPEG-2. Those AVI's (whether DV-AVI, or say Lagarith) would already be full I-Frame in structure, and not GOP. However, that time has passed.

     

    If you have a short MPEG-2, that is showing the red Frames, I would like for you to attach that to an e-mail, and send it to me. If your smallest is too large for your POP server, then maybe a service like DropBox would work. I will send you a PM (Personal Message) with my e-mail address. Also, I can accept rather large attachments, so there should not be an issue on my end. I would like to test and survey one of those problem MPEG-2 files, to see if I can unravel what is causing the red Frames. Watch for a PM in your Adobe Account. I can also test that MPEG-2 in PrE 11 (plus other editors) for you, to see if any other versions, or programs, have the same issue.

     

    Good luck, and wish that I had more to offer, than just some observations, that might, but might not, play a role in your problem.

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2013 5:27 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill,

     

    Please keep us updated on your progress.

     

    As I mentioned, the only idea that I have is something amiss with that MPEG Encoding, then its Import into PrE.

     

    In most cases, I try to not work with MPEG's, though obviously, with output to, say DVD-Video, one has few choices. Still, when editing, I will reserve ANY use of MPEG until the very last step.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2013 6:05 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Take

     

    Thanks for the interesting results.

     

    It is indeed curious. In the early days of Premiere Elements and AVCHD editing with it, the talk was all about AVCHD and the format's large demands on computer resouces. And, several came forth will conversion strategy to overcome this issue, one being the conversion of AVCHD 1920 x 1080 into the less resource demanding MPEG2 1920 x 1080 with Koyote Soft and other free and not so free software. Reflecting back, I do not recall any MPEG2 1920 x 1080 red content for those that converted.

     

    Even today, I can take a MPEG2 1920 x 1080 into Premiere Elements 7 Windows and no red video.

     

    So your problem is very challenging, especially since it runs across several computers with Premiere Elements 7.

     

    Did you ever explore another Premiere Elements version to see if the problem is Premiere Elements version specific if not computer specific?

     

    Offer still stands to take a look at a small sample of the video. I have several versions of Premiere Elements that I can run it on. Whatever you decide, we will watch for further developments.

     

    Thank you.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2013 5:06 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Take

     

    Great progress. Thank you for not giving up.

     

    My first choice would be the Movavi 12 Video Converter, probably the Snagit Video Capture 11 next, and RealPlayer for sure (might even be by first choice).

     

    If you have the installation disc for each of the candidates, I think it worth your while to do uninstall on each one at a time to see which uninstall targets the issue. All look like worthy candidates to me. But I do not have any first hand reason.

     

    Looking forward to further developments.

     

    Although there is always the push to update video card drivers, any chance that a video card driver roll back or uninstall/reinstall of the present video card driver might be in order after going through the cultprit candidate list?

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 8, 2013 7:27 AM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Tate

     

    Thanks for the good and bad news. The bad news predominating. Sorry about that.

     

    What is the comparison between the video card used in the other computer and yours?

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 16, 2013 10:24 AM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Take

     

    Sorry that the workaround solution had to be used after all your systematic troubleshooting to target the cause of the problem.

     

    As I read you present question...when you are in the Premiere Elements 7 burn dialog for Share/Disc/Blu-ray, check out the readings for Space Required and Bitrate in the Quality Area.

     

    Do not put a check mark next to Fit Contents to Available Space unless the Space Required is greater than 23 GB.

     

    Please check out my blog post of this matter.

    http://atr935.blogspot.com/2013/05/pe11-blu-ray-burn-dialog-fit-conten t-to.html

     

    If you have any questions on anything that I have written, please do not hesitate to ask.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 16, 2013 1:45 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Tate

     

    When you get the time, please update us on your Blu-ray burn to.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 16, 2013 4:35 PM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Tate

     

    Premiere Elements 7 is a great program with its File Menu/Export/Movie besides a share route. Its major failing is the way it handles 5.1 channel sound. The MPEG2 files with 5.1 channel audio were all ending up on Video Track 4 and above as I recall. I would have to go back and check but it may not have been convenience for some more than one at a time activities. In retrospect, it is a 32 bit application running in the 32 bit compatibility mode of the 64 bit system when a 64 bit system is used. That would have its impact on trying to get a larger project done successfully more often than not, especially with the AVCHD footage. I am sure there are other differences if I reflect long enough. But, I have found no fault in the way it handles codecs. I have not encountered the red frames that you have.

     

    "Better" depends on the feature set that you need to get the job done. So I cannot generalize on which of all the version is best. And best can be defined in different ways. Premiere Elements 11 underwent a marked interface change as compared to earlier versions, but the principles remain the same and features got moved around, some moved around, some moved out.

     

    Here is the important question that I have for you. I am presuming that you have Premiere Elements 11 installed on the same computer as 7 and that you are using one at a time. If this is so, do you still get the red frames with Premiere Elements 7? More than once, I have gotten feedback that in such an instance suddenly the problem for the problem program disappears when it shares the same computer with the new arrival.

     

    Just some "just my opinion" thoughts.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 17, 2013 7:25 AM   in reply to Bill Tate

    Bill Tate

     

    Thanks for the great new...no more red frames. Congratulations on your success.

     

    I immediately checked my Premiere Elements 7 Windows 7 64 bit files and did find the ImporterFastMPEG.prm in the location that you said. But, in all these years, I have never run

    into the red frames issue in spite of the presence of this .prm.

     

    Do you recall if the fix was from your experimenting at the time, from Adobe Technical Service, or from a post in one of the online Premiere Elements forums?

     

    We appreciated the follow up and will be sure to include that information in our troubleshooting considerations moving forward.

     

    ATR

     
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