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Photoshop not seeing export color space setting in Lightroom 4

Sep 13, 2013 2:01 PM

MY LR or PS programs are not acting as expected.

 

When my Lightroom 4 is set to export to Photoshop in either the sRGB color space or the AdobeRGB color space, and Photoshop is set for the sRGB space, Photoshop gives a color mismatch error in both cases, saying the image is an AdobeRGB embedded image.  However, if the color space in PS is set for AdobeRGB, even if the export setting in Lightroom is sRGB, there is no mismatch error. 


Apparently, PS sees every image as embedded with AdobeRGB.

 

I have a Sony NEX6 camera.  I have taken pictures in the camera sRGB color space and the AdobeRGB space, which I used for this test. Since I shoot in RAW, this should not matter, so I don’t think it is the issue, and, in fact, I get the same result no matter which color space the camera is in.

 

If LR export and PS color space are the same, why should there be a mismatch, and why is PS not seeing the sRGB space?  Might there be a setting in Lightroom or Photoshop that I am missing?

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 13, 2013 3:07 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

    I have a Sony NEX6 camera.  I have taken pictures in the camera sRGB color space and the AdobeRGB space, which I used for this test. Since I shoot in RAW, this should not matter, so I don’t think it is the issue, and, in fact, I get the same result no matter which color space the camera is in.

     

    Raw image files do NOT have a color space assigned to them, only JPEG camera files.

    howdego wrote:

    If LR export and PS color space are the same, why should there be a mismatch, and why is PS not seeing the sRGB space?  Might there be a setting in Lightroom or Photoshop that I am missing?

     

    You need to slelect the target color space with your Preferences> 'External Editing'> Color Space, or in the Export module 'File Settings'> Color Space.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 14, 2013 2:06 PM   in reply to howdego

    It seems that you're trying to edit a JPEG or a TIFF file in PS ... a file AdobeRGB is already embedded in it.

    Please check your file type ...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 14, 2013 3:51 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

    As I described, it doesn/t seem to matter what I set the External Editing color space to be.  PS sees every image coming in as adobeRGB.  So if the LR target space is sRGB, or adobeRGB, and PS color space is sRGB, I get an error in both cases.  I should not if the target is srgb.  On the other hand, if the target inj LR is sRGB, and PS color space is adobeRGB, I do not get an error.  The image just opens.  This should not happen, should it?

    Just to be clear the LR 'External Editing' color space setting only affects the 'Edit In' PS color profile. For 'Exports' you need to set the Color Space under 'File Settings' in the Export module.

     

    What are your PS Edit> Color Settings. This is what I suggest using with LR, which will indicate a profile mismatch for anything except ProPhoto RGB:

    PS Color Profiles.jpg

    As a test try setting BOTH the External Editing Preferences and Export>File Handling> Color Space to ProPhoto RGB color profile and do an 'Edit In' PS and an Export. With the two files open in PS see what profile shows at Edit> Convert to Profile under 'Source Space.' Tell me what you see here for each file!

    PS Convert To Profile.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 18, 2013 10:58 AM   in reply to howdego

    Please post a screenshot of the PS profile mismatch warning you are seeing, which should look like this based on what you are saying:

     

    PS Profile Mismatch Warning.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 18, 2013 2:01 PM   in reply to howdego

    It seems you are changing your PS Color Settings. I suggest leaving both LR External Editing Preferences and PS Color Settings with ProPhoto RGB, TIFF, 16 bit format. If you decide you want to 'Save' the file inside PS as an sRGB JPEG (instead of TIFF), convert the profile, and use 'Save As.' You'll need to do a folder Synchronize to import the JPEG back inside LR for these exception cases, but this is not a big deal. This insures the best image quality when applyng PS edits.

     

    I would suggest resetting your LR Preferences file. I usually rename the current file by adding a .old extension to the name.

     

    http://members.lightroomqueen.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/Vie w/1148/198/how-do-i-delete-the-lightroom-preferences-file

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 19, 2013 1:25 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

     

     

    I am not trying to change my color settings.  I just noticed this happening, and I am trying to find out why.  I am beginning to believe after these exchanges with you that either LR or PS is corrupted, as all settings seem correct.  Resetting my LR preferences file might be something I could try, but I will have to do some fixing thereafter as I use the ProShow plug-in.  So if you cannot think of anything else, I guess that is my next step.

    I also use the ProShow Producer plugin. Resetting LR Preferences should not affect any of your plugins, just the settings in the Preferences panel.

     

    Try resetting your LR Preferences file. I usually rename the current file by adding a .old extension to the name. I had a number of issues with LR and PS where resetting the preferences fixed the problem.

     

    http://members.lightroomqueen.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/Vie w/1148/198/how-do-i-delete-the-lightroom-preferences-file

     

    If the above doesn't fix it then try restting PS Preferences:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/375776

     

    Logic would say this has to be a LR Edit In PS issue, but I'd still try the PS Preferences reset if the LR reset doesn't fix it. Again, I usually first rename the current preferences file by adding a .old extension to the name. That way you can restore it and you original preferences if it doesn't help. It will NOT affect any of your PS plugins, just PS preferences settings and anything "wacky" with PS's defaults that is causing the problem. Ditto LR.....

     

    Also post a screenshot of your LR Preferences> External Editing panel so we aren't overlooking something there.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 19, 2013 2:53 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

    I am, however, trying to decide on the right color space to use, which is how I noticed this problem. I rarely make prints of my photos.  I make bluray movies using Proshow Producer.  I recently got a new monitor and Samsung LED HDTV, and found that my photo videos did not display right and I am trying to find out why.  I found the normal viewing settings of the TV have too much color and sharpness, so I established another group of settings for photos, which helped.  However, I am still not satisfied.

    These are two separate but related issues.

     

    1) It's almost impossible to get accurate Color and Luminance level rendering inside LR if you don't use a hardware monitor calibrator to adjust your computer monitor.

     

    2) LCD TV's use settings to "enhance" color, brightness, and contrast that is usually very, very inacuuarte. But this is what most non-photography people seem to like so TV manufacturers crank up the "default settings." I also have an older 52" Samsung TV (LN-T5265F) that I've manually adjusted for more accurate color. Try using the 'Movie' mode, which is the most accurate mode and turn the Backlight setting down. Here are the settings I use with my Samsung TV. I assume your Samsung TV's controls are similar:

     

    Setup ScreensHDMI 1 (Cable Box) & Coax (Cable) HDMI 2 (Panasonic Blu-Ray Player)
    PICTURE - 1MovieStandardDynamicMovieStandardDynamic
    Contrast828282828282
    Brightness434545434545
    Sharpness252535151525
    Color424545444545
    Tint77 R77 R84 R77 R77 R84 R
    Backlight567556
    PICTURE - 2
    Color ToneNormalNormalNormalNormalNormalNormal
    Detailed Settings
    Black AdjustOffNANAOffNANA
    Dynamic ContrastLowNANALowNANA
    Gamma-1NANA-1NANA
    Color SpaceAutoNANAAutoNANA
    White Balance
    R-Offset13NANA13NANA
    G-Offset15NANA15NANA
    B-Offset17NANA17NANA
    R-Gain15NANA15NANA
    G-Gain12NANA12NANA
    B-Gain17NANA17NANA
    My Color Control
    Pink15NANA15NANA
    Green15NANA15NANA
    Blue15NANA15NANA
    White15NANA15NANA
    Edge EhnacementOnNANAOnNANA
    xvYCCOffNANAOffNANA
    Digital NRLowLowLowLowLowLow
    Active ColorOff(NA)Off(NA)OffOff(NA)Off(NA)Off
    DnieOff(NA)OffOffOff(NA)OffOff
    SETUP - Screen 2
    Energy SavingOffOffOffOffOffOff
    SETUP - Screen 3
    HDMI Black LevelLowLowLowLowLowLow
    Film ModeOff(NA)Off(NA)Off(NA)Off(NA)Off(NA)Off(NA)

     

    howdego wrote:

     

    So it occurred to me that some colors might be wrong, or too saturated, because I am not seeing them on my monitor as they will appear on the HDTV.  I am thinking that since sRGB is my final color space, I would try to do everything in the sRGB space, including setting my monitor to sRGB (I have a Dell 2413 which supports adobeRGB too).  I was inn the process of trying this when I found the issue at hand.  Might you have any thoughts about this color space choice

     

    If you have a wide-gamut monitor you are better off using it in Adobe RGB mode with a monitor calibrator. But then the monitor will not look correct in non-color managed applications:

     

    http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/srgb_wide_gamut.html

     

    You can circumvent this issue by using your monitor in sRGB mode, but I'd still suggest you use a hardware monitor calibrator. Either way it is imortatnt that you have a proper monitor profile assigned in Windows or OS X Color Management. The monitor manufacturer provides these, but they don't always work well with LR for numerous reasons.

     

    To insure the best image quality you should do all of your editing in PS using 16 bit TIFF with ProPhoto RGB profile format until you are ready to Export. For use with ProShow you can use TIFFs or JPEGs, but use sRGB color profile to avoid any color management issue. JPEGs are fine and a LR Quality higher than 80 (10 in PS) is a waste of disk space for slideshow images.

     

    In short you've got a lot of "variables" between the uncalibrated monitor and out-of-the-box non-adjusted TV. The former requires a good hardware calibrator aad the latter a good "eye" to adjust it.

     
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  • Andrew Rodney
    1,391 posts
    Apr 16, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 19, 2013 6:23 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

     

    I have the error messages set to default to the working space.  As you can see, if LR and PS set for sRGB, PS says the image is adobeRGBmismatch.JPG

    There should be a dialog box that presets itself prior to the one above. That one above, with the Don't show again check box represents Photoshop's final attempt to remind you that if you dismiss this after showing don't show again, you'll no longer have a warning, indicating your color settings don't have the warning check boxes on. It's key you keep those warning check boxes on unless you resort to letting Photoshop automatically handle this process which is dangerous. Set your policies to Preserve as trshaner has suggested. Then allow Photoshop to preserve the embedded profile in what was sent from LR. In the dialog above, it's clear that you have sRGB set as your preferred RGB working space in color settings and the data is embedded with Adobe RGB (1998). There's a mismatch which is fine, you want to allow Photoshop to provide this data in that color space.

     

    You might want to post an image for download that you are sure isn't in Adobe RGB as indicated above.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 23, 2013 2:47 PM   in reply to howdego

    You say you reset all the tools in Photoshop, but that won't do anything. Reset preferences is what you want. Hold ctrl + alt + shift and launch. If you do it right you'll get a confirmation dialog.

    howdego wrote:

    if PS is set for the sRGB color space

    Just to be clear, the Photoshop working space only affects new documents created in Photoshop. It doesn't affect existing or incoming documents, as long as you have PS color management policies set to "preserve embedded profiles" (which as already mentioned is the only sensible setting).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 23, 2013 3:16 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

    Oh, one more thing.  I did lose the ProShow Producer plug-in from the export file window.  Any idea where it is stored?

    C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom\Modules

     

    There are two ProShow plugins you will need to 'Add' back from inside the LR Plugin Manager.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 23, 2013 4:16 PM   in reply to howdego

    I suggest discussing the i1 Display, Passport, and TV settings issues after you've resolved the PS issue. They are separate but related issues which you should probably discuss in a separate post.

     

    Your Samsung TV setup controls are different than mine, so the specific settings I posted would not apply. The point is that the out-of-box settings are not necessarily optimal for photographic slideshows or even Blu-ray movie playback. I have one (1) custom set of settings that I now use for all viewing. It shouldn't be necessary to adjust the TV differently for different sources or types of Blu-ray disks (Cable, Blu-ray, etc.). I think you will find that your LR edited images will look more "accurate" after hardware calibration of your monitor with the i1 Display device.

     

    howdego wrote:

    My workflow is to do most of my editing in LR, resize, fix if necessary and maybe sharpen in PS, and save back to LR as a PSD.  That way I keep the image in 16 bit, with all its layers, so I can make additional changes before exporting to Proshow.

    What you've just described can probably all be done from inside LR, except for the "layers." What are you adding to the image in layers?

     

    howdego wrote:

    Don't see why saving as a TIFF would affect the quality of the picture, and it would add more steps to my workflow. 

    TIFF and PSD are a lossless file format that supports 16 bit/color. JPEG is lossy and only supports 8bit/color. If your intention is to edit the PS file further in LR TIFF or PSD will provide the best results. Once your LR editing is 100% complete you can export with resizing and output sharpening  in sRGB JPEG format based on your image usage in ProShow. I don't use the ProShow plugin so can't give advise. I prefer to be in control of the resizing and output sharpening process, but the ProShow plugin may work fine by itself

     

    howdego wrote:

    However, I guess working in prophoto in both LR and PS, would be ok if the monitor is calibrated and in sRGB mode, as even if there are more colors in the image data, my monitor will only see the sRGB gamut, just as my TV does.  Do I have that right?

    Is the gamut of your TV really sRGB and are you using a wide-gamut or standard gamut monitor? For most images the onscreen image differences you see between the computer monitor and TV screen should be minimal, assuming both are calibrated or at least properly adjusted. If you really want to see what your LR/PS images will look like on your TV you need to soft proof them using a profile that matches you TV's LCD screen. One example here:

     

    http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/televisions-displays/79910-tv-cal ibration.html

     
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  • Andrew Rodney
    1,391 posts
    Apr 16, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 23, 2013 4:02 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

     

    Response to Andrew, comment 13.

     

    I get this box because I set PS to "not ask when opening" as I assume if LR is set to export in sRGB and the color space of PS is sRGB, I should not have to be asked.  If I were to now set the policies to preserve, I assume I would be getting an adobe RGB image, when I want a sRGB image. Right?  And what is your thought about keeping the image in prophoto and the monitor in sRGB while I edit for display on TV?

    Preserve just does that, it preserves whatever profile is embedded and that's exactly what you want. It is pointless to have the warning check box OFF and not tell the dialog you show to continue to show. That is why there is a "Dont Show Again" check box. But dialog you show does indicate there IS an embedded profile in Adobe RGB (1998). If that is what you wish, the Preserve policy will provide that.

     

    Maybe this video will help:

    http://digitaldog.net/files/Photoshop_Color_Settings.mov

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2013 3:00 PM   in reply to howdego

    If you have reset Lr preferences (moved/renamed) and reset Ps preferences (ctrl/alt/shift - you did get the confirmation?), there must be something we've overlooked, because this isn't supposed to happen.

     

    So just to cover the obvious - this is "edit in" (ctrl + E), not Export? And not "additional editor" (ctrl + alt + E)?

     

    One thing you can do in Photoshop to keep track, is to set the notification area at the bottom of the image frame. This way you have instant confirmation:

    profile.png

    And again: With "preserve embedded" Photoshop will honor any incoming profile. There is no need to "set" Photoshop for anything.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2013 3:22 PM   in reply to howdego

    I have tested LR 5.2 with PS-CC 14.1.2/ACR 8.2 on Windows 7 64-bit and I don’t see the issue being described:

     

    If I set my Export profile to sRGB and set the LR post-processing action to open the JPG in PS-CC, I see sRGB as its incoming profile.

     

    If I set my Edit-In-PS profile to sRGB and use Edit-In-PS from inside LR, the raw file opens in PS-CC and it has sRGB as its incoming profile.

     

    The “incoming profile” is listed in a warning message that I have enabled for showing me mismatched profiles, since my normal PS Workspace is set to ProPhotoRGB.

     

    If you are using LR 4 as your initial message subject indicates, perhaps this is a bug that was fixed in LR 5.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2013 3:44 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    I've used every version of LR since 1.0 with PS and never had an issue with the wrong color profile being assigned to an Export or 'Edit in PS' image. Currently I am using both LR4.4.1 and LR5.2 Final with PS CS6 on my Windows 7 system with no such issues.

     

    The only other suggestion I can provide is to uninstall PS and LR, manually delete the PS and LR Preferences files, and then a reinstall both using a new download of the latest PS and LR installers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2013 3:45 PM   in reply to howdego

    I have tested the same scenarios with LR 4.4.1 and PS-CC 14.1.2/ACR 8.2 and I get sRGB as my color-space coming into PS using both Edit In and Export with PP-action set to PS-CC.

     

    What versions of LR and PS/ACR are you using that give you the problem?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2013 4:07 PM   in reply to trshaner

    It is possible this was an ACR issue with ACR 7.x but we're both using ACR 8.2 so don't see it.

     
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  • Andrew Rodney
    1,391 posts
    Apr 16, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2013 4:07 PM   in reply to howdego

    howdego wrote:

     

    Anyway, I still don't have a resolution for my embedded profile problem!

    Do you see any difference in Edit in Photoshop command (set the preferences to what you wish for a color space) versus Export (again setting the desired color space)?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2013 4:16 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    It is also possible that there is confusion between going from LR to PS via Edit In or Export and actually opening the file in ACR and seeing Adobe RGB at the bottom, which is what ACR, itself, saves files as, not what the Edit In or Export save them as.  If the workflow is more complicated than just using Edit In or Export to Disk then perhaps there is something else in the process that is using ACR's settings.  You might want to check those and see if they are set to AdobeRGB and set them to sRGB if they are.  Here is a long thread about this confusion on another user's part, and in reply 15 we see a screen shot with the blue Workflow options link indicating AdobeRGB:

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/5116624#5116624

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 27, 2013 11:14 AM   in reply to howdego

    What happens when you change your Camera Raw 'Workflow Options' color space to sRGB and then try 'Edit in PS' with LR 'External Editing' color space also set to sRGB?

     

    Camera Workflow Options.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 27, 2013 11:22 AM   in reply to howdego

    I'm itching to get my hands on this computer, to find out what the heck is going on here...

     

    We need to back up a little and plug every hole here, so bear with me: Is the Camera Raw plugin involved at any point in this process? Because that's the only thing that can override the settings in Lightroom or Photoshop.

     

    Glitches in expected behavior can happen, but I've never heard of or seen a case where a full preferences reset didn't fix it. That's supposed to return the application to its pristine factory state.

     

    Edit: trshaner beat me to it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 27, 2013 11:44 AM   in reply to howdego

    HMMM!  My Lr is using ACR 74., but PS is using 8.2.  I think LR 4.4 only supports ACR 7.4.  Any edea if that is true?  And if they are different, why would that cause the mismatch in only one color space?

     

    Lightroom 4.4 is ACR 7.4. It's the same engine, only in a different wrapping (Photoshop plugin vs. standalone application).

     

    Wait a second. With "Edit in Photoshop" it's actually ACR that does the rendering into Photoshop. That's why you get the warning if you have a version mismatch. Lightroom just passes on its settings.

     

    So trshaner is onto something: open ACR and change the workflow setting there. I bet that will clear it.

     
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