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How to get edited file to save to version set in new PSE 12

Oct 3, 2013 6:18 PM

Tags: #elements_12

Edited file when saved don't show up in "Version set".  I have checked appropriate boxes in "Save as".  Files are saved in the folder of the original, just not attaching to the original file as I expect and as Versio 9 did with now trouble.  In fact old version sets  in the catalog after the coverion to Version 12 seem to behave as expected.

 

Any suggestions for a solution?

 

Bob

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2013 10:43 PM   in reply to Bob Hewson

    Please ensure that the option to "Include in Elements Organizer" and "Save in version-set" are checked in Save dialog in PSE Editor.

     

    Thanks

    Andaleeb

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 3:55 AM   in reply to andaleebfatima1

    Hello Andaleeb

     

    I have the same problem. In my case "Include in elements Organizer" and "Save in Version set" are checked (see the first of my attached screenprints). 

     

    The edited Version of the fotofile does not get included in the Versionset and is not even cataloged (i.e. does not get included in the PSE Organizer). But I can see that the edited Version of the fotofile has been stored on Disk (in the same Windows Folder as the Original Version of the fotofile)

     

    A detail which might or might not give some clues: For the PSE 12 Organizer I use (as I always did in my previous PSE versions) the option "customer location" (File --> Manage Calogs ,,,--> Catalogs), Bob, do you also use that option?.05.10.jpg05.10b.jpg

    Another detail which also might or might not give you a clue: When looking with the PSE 12 Organizer  after the "Save as" of the edited version

    at Information --> Metadata --> File Properties of the Original File,

    I see that the "Date Modified" of the Original File has been changed to the time, when I have saved the new/edited Version (see the second of my attached/embedded Screenprints).

     

     

    Some other details which might or might not give you clues: my PSE 12 Catalog has been converted from PSE 8 and is a catalog containing a huge amount of foto Files (probably around 70'000 Fotofiles), Bob: is your catalog also a catalog that has been converted from a previous (which one) PSE Version?.

     

    I did not yet have time to perform tests with other PSE 12 catalogs. Also I did not yet have time to test various options (e.g. Variuos Preferences options).

     

    Andaleeb, Thank You very much for looking at this problem. Without a solution or wothout a reasonable Workaround, I can not use PSE 12.

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 7:23 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    I just made a PSE V12 test with a Catalog that I have created with V12 (as opposed to my previous tests, with a catalog that I had converted under V12 from V8 to V12). In this new test, I had no problems with the cataloging of the edited Photo version into the V12 catalog and into a version set.

     

    It seems therefore that in my particular case, the problem happens with catalogs, that are converted (in my case from V8) to V12; and not with new V12 catalogs that I create with V12. But of course, it is with the huge catalog that I am converting from V8 to V12, that I need to work.

     

    Aditional detail: I made an additional test with the Catlaog that I had converted from V8 to V12: i ran File--> Catalog Manager --> Repair (and then Optimize) and then edited again Photos. This did not help.

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 7:39 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    I have done one additional Test: I converted a relatively small V8 catalog to V12. Then I tried an Edit of a foto cataloged in that small V12 catalog. I had no problems with it (i.e. the edited version of the foto got included in the V12 Catalog and into a Version set).

     

    I am therefore wondering whether the problem is related to large catalogs.

     

    Bob, may I please ask you how large your PSE 12 catalog is (in other words how many photos are approximately cataloged in that V12 catalog)?

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 8:44 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    Robert,

    From all you have tried, I really think the problem is related to your converted catalog.

    You could try to convert again (check the option to show already converted catalogs).

    Or you could try the other way : instead of converting, you could use the option to backup to external drive and restore to custom location (not to overwrite your original pictures). That requires time and disk space.

    The catalog size is totally irrelevant, my last conversion of a catalog with 48000 items worked perfectly. The database is at ease to manage many more pictures.

    I was thinking about deleting the organizer prefs, but if it is the catalog, that won't help.

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 10:25 AM   in reply to Bob Hewson

    Bob/Robert,

     

    Can you please try importing new files in your converted catalog and then see if you can edit these images?

     

    -Saurabh

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 11:24 AM   in reply to saurabh288

    Hello Saurabh

     

    Thank you very much for your involvement and support.

     

    I tried what you suggested; it functions (i.e., when editing a new photo that has been imported under V12, the edited version of the foto-file gets cataloged and inserted into a Version-set).

     

    But of course, with V12, I need also to be able to edit the 60'000+ Photo Files that I had imported with V8 and with older PSE Versions. Looking forward to a fix from the excellent PSE developpers.

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 11:38 AM   in reply to MichelBParis

    Hello Michel

     

    I already tried to convert the V8 catalog a second time; but the problem did not disappear.

     

    May I please ask you to check, whether I interpret correctly your suggestion of trying a backup and restore? If I understand you correctly, you suggest, that I backup the catalog (I guess under V8), that I restore it (I guess under V8) and that I then try to convert the restored catalog to V12 (with the hope, that the backup/restore gets rid of a minor problem that the V8-->V12 conversion is not able to handle)?

     

    Meanwhile, I converted my large PSE V8 catalog to V10 (that I never used for my real work): with V10 I do not have the problem that I encounter with V12 (even though it is the same catalog that I convert to both V10 and V12)

     

    ----

    It seems that Saurabh is on the right track to understand the problem...and hopefully to fix it.  Based on the question of Saurabh, I have the possibly wrong fear, that a (probably quite lengthy) backup/restore will not help much. But If Saurabh has no solution, I could still try the Backup/restore/conversion approach.

     

    Un merci sincère

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 11:55 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    Robert Eckerlin wrote:

     

    Hello Michel

     

    I already tried to convert the V8 catalog a second time; but the problem did not disappear.

     

    May I please ask you to check, whether I interpret correctly your suggestion of trying a backup and restore? If I understand you correctly, you suggest, that I backup the catalog (I guess under V8), that I restore it (I guess under V8) and that I then try to convert the restored catalog to V12 (with the hope, that the backup/restore gets rid of a minor problem that the V8-->V12 conversion is not able to handle)?

    If you do a backup under V8, the restore in ulterior versions is automatically followed by a conversion. This is a long process and not very likely to solve your problem, since the difference would be the location of the restored files. However, having another backup is never a bad idea.

    If Saurabh's suggestions don't suceed, I would try something else. I would find or create another catalog with a small number of files  in your version 8; convert via your PSE12 version, and see if the problem is still the same.

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 11:59 AM   in reply to Bob Hewson

    Hello Bob

     

    It seems that are two cases are somehow similar (but not identical).

     

    In my case, my catalog too was earlier  a PSE 7 Catalog (and even earlier on, among other, a PSA/PSE V2 catalog), it got converted a couple of years ago (without problems) to V8 and now I converted it to V12.

     

    And both your catalog and my catalog are large (my catalog has not only a lot of photos, but also a lot of Tags, Albums, and Version sets).

     

    The difference is that when I import under V12 into my converted catalog a photo that was not yet cataloged, the results of Edits of that photo get (as expected by Saurabh) cataloged and become member of a versionset.

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 12:07 PM   in reply to MichelBParis

    I already tried the conversion of a smaller PSE V8 catalog (that I used only for test purposes). I had no V12 problem with the converted version of that small catalog......But this does not solve at all my problem. What I want to be able to do: use V12 for the converted version of that large V8 Catalog that I use for my "real" work.

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 12:31 PM   in reply to saurabh288

    Saurabh and Bob

     

    I did some additional tests with photos that I have imported under V12 into my large catalog. The results are not always identical

     

    a) When the Organizer is still showing only those phtos that I have just imported and when I edit one of these photos: the edited version gets cataloged and included in a Version Set. This is OK.

     

    b) When a little bit later, I sort the photos shown by the Orgnizer in "Import Batch" sequence and when I edit one of the photos that I had imported into the V12 catalog: the edited version gets cataloged, but does not get included in a version set (this is not OK)

     

    c) When a little bit later, I sort the photos shown by the Organizer in by "Oldest" sequence, use a Tag to filter the Photos shown by the Organizer  and then edit one of the photos that I had imported into the V12 catalog: the edited version gets cataloged and included in a Versionset (this is again OK).

     

    ---

    Of course, I do not pretend that it will always be like that - I instead just describe what I observed in just 3 test cases.

     

    And as described in earlier post: when editing a photo thst has been imported under V8, it neither gets included in a Versionset nor get cataloged. This is a third behavior and is not OK.

     

    Since I did not encountered similar problems in my  few V10 tests: I have the impression that there is here a V12-specific problem.

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 12:53 PM   in reply to MichelBParis

    MichelBParis schrieb:

     

    If you do a backup under V8, the restore in ulterior versions is automatically followed by a conversion.
    Michel, thank You for clarifing. It might well be, that "the restore in ulterior version" does not result in the same problems as a "convert". Waiting to get the opinion of Saurabh on that.
     
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    Oct 5, 2013 8:06 PM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    Bob/Robert,

     

    Thanks for trying out edit workflow with images imported in V12.

     

    Since this issue is coming in converted catalogs, can you try to make a new album in converted catalog and then see if a the edited image gets catalogued in version set.

    I am just trying to see if some operation in converted catalog resolves this issue.

     

    -Saurabh

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 8:10 PM   in reply to saurabh288

    Robert,

     

    Then this seems to be a different issue(edited version not being cataloged). Let me figure out this issue.

     

    -Saurabh

     
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    Oct 5, 2013 9:29 PM   in reply to saurabh288

    Saurabh

     

    As mentioned in my post #15 dated 05.10.2013 13:31 I encountered three different senarios:

    - edited version gets cataloged but not included in Version set (see item b of my referenced post)

    - edited version does not get cataloged (towards the bottom of my referenced post)

    - edited version  being cataloged and included in versionset (which is of course OK)   

     
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    Oct 6, 2013 1:36 AM   in reply to saurabh288

    Saurabh

     

    If Adobe PSE development  gets the impression, that it could help them to use tools ("debug"?) that record internal events which happen within PSE on my Windows 7 PC and/or to have a session where Adobe can see what happens on my PC Monitor: you will be welcome. But I need to get via email (Adobe knows my email-id) in advance

    - an appointment (i.e. date/time) for these tests (e.g. Monday Morning Swiss time from around 9am, I will be available)

    - a description of the environmdent that I shall set up in advance (e.g. shall I alredy have converted my large PSE 8 Catalog to V12? Shall I already have run Repair/Optimize? Or do you prefer to use the large V12 catalog as currently is?.....)

     

    Best regards

    Robert

     
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    Oct 6, 2013 10:34 PM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    Hi Robert,

     

    Are you editing raw image in editor or these are jpeg. And after editing, if you try to quit Editor, do you encounter "Program error..." message?

     

    -Saurabh

     
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    Oct 7, 2013 12:24 AM   in reply to saurabh288

    Hello Saurabh

     

    The images that I edited in V12 are all jpes (but my catalog contains raw images that up to now I have only ediited with v8).

     

    I do not encounter any error message when quiting the Editor.

     

    A first detail that I observed: while I am editing the Photo (that I had selected for editing from within the Organizer), I see in the Organizer the usual red horizontal bar with the text "Edit in Progress" . Once I completed the editing and I performed the "saved as" of the edited image, this red horizontal bar disappears. From my user perspective, that means that the Organizer got aware of the completion of the edit. Up to now all that seems to be  normal/as-usual.

     

    But then, what is not normal (i.e. what is an error)  is that the Organizer does not get aware of the newly created version of the photo-file

     

    A second detail: I just tried an Instant fix (which is performed by the Organizer component; not by the Editor component). The "instant fix" worked as expected: the edited version got included in a Versionset .

     
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    Oct 7, 2013 1:55 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    Hello Saurabh

     

    I remember that very long time ago (probably with PSE V3; or was it rather PSE 4 or PSE/PSA 2?), there were also problems with edted versions that were not appearing/included in the Catalog (Or did they appear in the Catalog but not in the Versionsets ... I do not remeber precisely).  I wonder whether Adobe has still records about these problems and whether the reading of these records could give some clues.

     
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    Oct 7, 2013 2:33 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    In some (not all) of the tests that I have done just a couple of minutes ago, the edited version of the photo got cataloged and included in the Versionset.  I do not know yet, on what it depends whether the edited photo get included in the Version Set or not. Just on timing dependencies (as that was the case, according to what the PSE devdelopers described many years ago for the V2 (or V3 or V4?) problem? )

     

    Also, I noticed that in some of my recent tests, it took quite a lot of time until the red horizontal bar with the text "Edit in Progress" disappeared from the photo-thumbnail displayed by the Organizer (someting that I was not seeing (or not seeing often?) with PSE V8).

     
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    Oct 7, 2013 3:05 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    Hello Saurabh

     

    Based on some additional tests, I have the impression that with my V12 catalog the problem (i.e. the edited photo appearing neither in a Versionset nor (sometimes) in the Catalog) happens when the foto-file that I was editing is part of an Album (that I had created with V8).

     

    Can you recreate the problem on your PCs?

     

    In the case, that the edited version gets correctly included into a Versionset: with my large catalog (around 51'000 Media Files without counting the multiples Versions within Versionsets; probably around 70'000 when counting the multiple Versions within Versionsets) it takes extremely long until the red horizontal bar with the text "Edit in Progress" disappears.  Much, much longer than in V8. I will need to check my "preferences" to see if I can shorten that long time.

     

    In the case where theedited version errounously does not get included in the Versionset: the red horizontal bar with the text "Edit in Progress" disappears rapdily.

     
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    Oct 7, 2013 3:28 AM   in reply to saurabh288

    Perhaps, finally, good news.

     

    Even though the "Watch Folder" Option of the V8 Organizer (File--> Watch Folder) was not active/checked,it was active for the V12 Organizer (it seems that the installation process of V12, does not honor how that option was set in previous PSE versions).

     

    After deactiving, the "Watch Folders and their Subfolders for New Files" option, I did not encountered anymore the problem of edited photos not being included in the Versionsets. But I have not yet done a lot of new tests in order to confirm that the problem is the result of an active "Watch folder" option.

     

    I the next couple of days, I will do some additional tests with a deactivated "Watch Folder" option and will report what I will observe.

     

    ---------

    Bob (Hewson): is for your PSE V12 Organizer the "Watch Folder" option also active? And does the pfrobldem disappear after deacgiving the "Watch Folder" option?

     
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    Oct 7, 2013 3:48 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    Your problem is similar, although not identical, to one I experienced in pre-release testing. In my case Adobe suggested it was a conflict with the RoboForm password/form filler manager.

     

    Cheers,

    --

    Neale

     
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    Oct 7, 2013 4:06 AM   in reply to nealeh

    Neale, Thank You for your suggestion.

     

    Myself do not even know what the RoboForm password/form filler manager is and therefore guess that it is not installed on my Windows 7 PC, Also a search for "RoboForm" on my C Drive did not result in any hit.

     

    I will see if also my future tests without the "Watch Folder" option will result in properly cataloged new vesions and in properly created Versionsets .

     

    Cheers

     
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    Oct 7, 2013 5:07 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    Robert Eckerlin schrieb:

     

    Perhaps, finally, good news.

     

    .....

     

    After deactiving, the "Watch Folders and their Subfolders for New Files" option, I did not encountered anymore the problem of edited photos not being included in the Versionsets. But I have not yet done a lot of new tests in order to confirm that the problem is the result of an active "Watch folder" option.

     

    I the next couple of days, I will do some additional tests with a deactivated "Watch Folder" option and will report what I will observe.

    .....

     

    Unfortunately, my newest tests (they have all been performed with an inactive "Watch Folder" option) resulted all again in the problem (i.e. the edited Version did not get cataloged). I do not know, why a little bit earlier my tests were showing good results and now all my tests result in the problem (Time-Dependencies?)

     

    I have to give up my own attempts to get around the problem and hope that Adobe Development will find the problem and a solution.

     
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    Oct 8, 2013 6:52 PM   in reply to Bob Hewson

    Bob Hewson schrieb:

     


    ....
    There was also mention of the Adobe Revel being a possible culprit, I have deselected this too, still the problem remains.

     

    The “stack” function seems to work and I imagine it is somewhat similar to “version set”

     

    I wonder if we can copy our new catalog back into a version readable by an earlier version of PSE (Ver 9) and then reconvert back again.

     

    This is very frustrating as the “version set” was a key feature when doing a lot of editing.

     

     

    Bob

    Hi Bob

     

    On the subject of your question, for "reconverting back" the catalog to an eralier version of PSE: I never heard, that it was possible to "reconvert back" a catalog (e.g. a PSE V12 catalog) to a previous version (e.g. to a PSE V9 catalog). But since a catalog conversion from V9 to V12 keeps the V9 catalog around, probably you still have the V9 catalog files (and their V9 catalog folders) around (unless the V9 deinstallation deleted these files) . Use the Windows Search Function for file names containing .pse9db; these are the V9 catalog files. A Folder with a .pse9db File contains all what is needed to use a functioning V9 PSE with that V9 catalog.

     

    For me too the "Version set" feature is essential (the "local Album" feature and the Tag features too are essential for me). For my purposes, without a functioning Version set Feature (or without a functioning local Album Feature), I can not use PSE. That has already been the case in that much earlier PSE Version (was it PSE V3?) which had similar problems with Version Sets. Since all my photos are organized in Versionsets, using Stacks is not a reasonable alternative for me.

     

    What seems strange on my PC:  I have only problems with my large Catalog. With a small catalog (that I use only for various test purposes), I do not encounter these problems. Also with my large Catalog (around 70'000 cataloged Foto files, including the various versions within Versionset of the same foto):  in those cases, where the result of an edit gets properly cataloged: it takes an extremely long time, until the red horizontal bar with "Edit in Progress" disappears in the Organizer (I did not measure that time precisely; but probably this takes around 15 seconds). With my small catalogs, this is instead very fast.

     

    I have the impression that (unless Adobe already understands the details of the reason of our problems), use of tools like "debug" on our PCs could help them to understand the details of the problem. I am surprised, that they do not use my offer to run such tools on my PC. In the past, use of such tools have been useful for them.

     

    Thank You for mentioning "Adobe Revel" as a possible culprit. I must confess that I do not know how to deselect the Revel code. For those of us who do not care (yet) much about Revel: I wonder whether PSE Development could provide a fix consisting of a radical disabling of Revel Code in order to provide us a temporary work around.

     

    Looking forward to good news from Adobe

     
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    Oct 11, 2013 7:29 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

     

     

    What seems strange on my PC:  I have only problems with my large Catalog. With a small catalog (that I use only for various test purposes), I do not encounter these problems. Also with my large Catalog (around 70'000 cataloged Foto files, including the various versions within Versionset of the same foto):  in those cases, where the result of an edit gets properly cataloged: it takes an extremely long time, until the red horizontal bar with "Edit in Progress" disappears in the Organizer (I did not measure that time precisely; but probably this takes around 15 seconds). With my small catalogs, this is instead very fast.

     

    Meanwhile, in additional tests, I encountered the Versionset problem also with a relatively small test catalog of 1900 Fotofiles that i have converted from V8 to V12..

     

    PSE Development is looking at the problem and I guess that once they will have a solution or a workaround they will describe it. Myself will try to become quite on that issue, in order to avoid to confuse other Forum Users with posts that turn eventually out to be inaccurate.

     
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    Oct 13, 2013 12:22 PM   in reply to Bob Hewson

    Hello Bob, Hello other potentially interested PSE users

     

    Saurabh made recommendations of things that I could try in order to "work around" the problem. And his recommendations worked for me. I guess that his recommendations could also work for some other of us who encounter the same problem (= the result of the PSE Edit of a photo that does not get included in a Versionset and that does not even get cataloged). Therefore I describe below, what Saurabh recommended me to do:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Can you please try the following:

    1) Turn of automatic processes running in Elements Organizer. These are turned off from 'Edit>Preferences>Media Analysis'

         a) "Analyze Photos for People automatically"

         b) "Analyze Media for Visual Search automatically"

    2) Turn of Revel Agent "Edit>Preferences>Adobe Revel". If it is already off, then make sure that "ElementsRevelAgent.exe" is not running in Task Manager

    3) Kill "ElementsAutoAnalyzer.exe" from task manager

    4) Make sure that thumbnail generation is complete in Organizer and no more thumbnails are generated

     

    Once above things are in place, can you please try to save files in version set and see if it is included in Elements Organizer

    ------ end of recommendations from Saurabh ---------------------------------------

     

    In my case, the only thing that was not already turned of / not already inactive was the "ElementsAutoAnalyzer.exe".

    Once I killed it, the problem disappeared on my Windows 7 PC and did not reappear.

     

    Note: on my PC, every time, that I start the PSE Organizer, the "ElementsAutoAnalyzer.exe" gets also started. I have then to kill him again, in order to avoid the problem

     

    Of course, nobody claims that this is the solution. But It is at least a "work around"; and that "work around"...worked for me.

     

    A sincere "Thank You" to Saurabh

     
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    Oct 13, 2013 6:57 PM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    This worked for me.

     
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    Oct 15, 2013 11:20 AM   in reply to Robert Eckerlin

    I am running PSE 12 on a Mac. Turned off "Analyze Photos" and "Analyze Media", Revel Agent is off. Unfortunately no idea how to kill "ElementsAutoAnalyzer" on my Mac. Maybe that's the reason why work around does not work on my system.

     

    Really do hope that Adobe can fix the problem as soon as possible.

     

    Thanks Robert for your support, please stay tuned on our issue.

     
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