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wmhanks
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2 cam double system sound?

Oct 8, 2013 11:12 AM

Tags: #windows_7 #multi-cam #premiere_elements_11 #double_system_sound

My friend, Thorne Dreyer does a weekly radio show on KOOP in Austin. Recently Dan and Robin Rather were his guests. The person who shot the footage is a notable still photographer with little experience in motion pictures. I'm going to edit. There will be two 50 or 60 GB files from each camera in .mov format. Also, the audio from the cameras is unusable so we have a separate sound track from the show.

I need to syc the sound with both cams footage then edit between the two cams for the finished piece. Does anyone have experience doing this with Adobe Elements 11? I heard a program like Pluraleyes might help.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 8, 2013 11:27 AM   in reply to wmhanks

    This would be so much easier in the professional version of Premiere!

     

    In fact, it's going to be a real bear in Premiere Elements.

     

    Not synching the audio and video. That's pretty basic. But switching between two live cameras and keeping it all in sync is seriously hard. At least in Premiere Elements. Premiere Pro includes a multi-cam editor feature.

     

    It also might make a difference what type of camcorder your video was shot on. If it wasn't a consumer camcorder, the video may not even digest well in Premiere Elements. (MOV isn't really specific enough. MOVs come in thousands of different flavors!)

     
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    Oct 10, 2013 6:07 PM   in reply to wmhanks

    wmhanks

     

    A just in case note, there are many doing multi camera editing with Premiere Elements even without the official multi camera editing built in feature of Premiere Pro. In Premiere Elements, I prefer using Opacity rather than cuts in the workflow.

     

    I suspect that, with the amount of work you have ahead of you with all that footage, the relative easy factor may be minimal even with just 2 cameras. .But getting beyond 2 cameras in a Premiere Elements multi camera scheme can be much.

     

    But I would ask "Is the footage from two different cameras recording the same subject(s) at the same time, but from different angles. Or, are the two cameras recording related scenes, each recording not at the same time?

     

    Please update us on your progress when you get a chance. We would be very interested to learn how Premiere Elements fares in the workflow that you are planning.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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    Oct 11, 2013 1:55 PM   in reply to wmhanks

    Mike

     

    After all is said and done, we would be very interested in your results.

     

    Success with whatever workflow you decide to go with.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 21, 2013 9:44 PM   in reply to wmhanks

    Mike

     

    It is late where I am so I will give you my initial thoughts on this and then get back to your thread first thing in the morning.

     

    You wrote

    One might think I would just select the series of segments and right click or something and select "join". However, I see no way to recombine the 10 segments into one continuous take.

    One can select a group of clips and then right click anywhere in the highlight and select Group.

     

    You can also selectively export segment(s) of the Timeline by having the gray tabs of the WorkArea Bar span just the segment for export. But, the important other half of this is having a check mark next to "Share WorkArea Bar Only" in the export dialog (if the dialog comes with that option).

     

    Does any of that sound of interest?

     

    More later.

     

    ATR

     
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    Oct 22, 2013 2:39 PM   in reply to wmhanks

    Mike

     

    Thanks for the update with the good news of your successes in your project.

     

    Sounding very good.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 23, 2013 4:58 AM   in reply to wmhanks

    wmhanks,

     

    You might have proceeded past this point by now, but to join the multiple DSLR files into one, try using DOS copy.  For example (copy /b file1 + file2 + file3 newfile).  This works perfectly for me when my camcorder breaks long recordings into multiple 2GB .mts files and I want to rejoin as one file.

     
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    Oct 23, 2013 6:18 AM   in reply to jmklein

    jmklein

     

    How would you do what you suggest for files already on the Premiere Elements Timeline without exporting the the Premiere Elements Timeline first?

     

    If I have audio out of sync issues with ripping VOBs from DVD-VIDEO, I have used Command Prompt for seamless DVD.VOB which I import into a Premiere Elements project instead of ripping individual VOBs.

     

    But, I am seeing that what you suggest would be applicable only to the files before they get into Premiere Elements.

     

    ATR

     
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    Oct 23, 2013 7:35 AM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    ATR,

     

    Yes, my suggestion would only be useful before importing the files into PE.  I learned of the necessity of this method when putting multiple files from my camcorder (that were recorded as one continuous recording event) on the timeline in Pinnacle Studio.  During project playback, there would be an audio dropout at each file break.  By joining the files in DOS, the file now exists as one long continous file with no break or dropouts.  Because of the FAT file system in the camcorder, files can not be larger than 2GB.

     

    If you import the entire folder structure from the camcorder into some editors (iMovie), it will recognize the mutliple files for a continous recording session and account for the break, with no dropouts.  No sure if PE will do this or not.  Pinnacle Studio would not.

     
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    Oct 23, 2013 8:13 AM   in reply to jmklein

    jmklein

     

    Very interesting. May give that a try.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ATR

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 23, 2013 8:20 AM   in reply to A.T. Romano

    In the camcorders folder structure, somehow the file break is accounted for.  I think newer editors can work with this, not Pinnacle Studio.  The idea is that when you copy the stuff off the camcorder, copy and archive the entire folder structure to your  harddrive, not just the .mts files under the STREAM subfolder.  I have always been used to just copying/archiving the .mts files without the folder structure.  Had to change my ways.

     

    My trial for PE expired, so I am not able to try this in PE.  Maybe you can and let us know.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 23, 2013 3:39 PM   in reply to jmklein

    jmklein

     

    Mission accomplished just now with Premiere Elements 12 and other.

     

    Will be writing and posting the details. Then we can compared notes on getting individual files from the camera into the computer as a seamless single file, using Command Prompt.

     

    More later.

     

    ATR

     
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    Oct 24, 2013 1:24 PM   in reply to jmklein

    jmklein

     

    Because of the detailed and long nature of my looking into the Command Prompt's approach for obtaining merged files for Premiere Elements import, I have written my findings into a blog post.

    http://www.atr935.blogspot.com/2013/10/pe12-seamless-file-merging-befo re-import.html

     

    I am not sure if what I have done is prescribed Command Prompt, but I went with what worked for me based on what I had done in a previous work with DVD-VIDEO, individual VOBs vs VOBs merged in a single file for use in Premiere Elements.

     

    The results looks promising when this specific need is indicated.

     

    ATR

     
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    Oct 29, 2013 9:06 AM   in reply to wmhanks

    Mike

     

    Sounds like major progress. Great job.

     

    But, please refresh my memory, what did you mean by "Audio" merge feature to sync? Was that the Group option or something else?

     

    Thanks for the update.

     

    ATR

     
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    Oct 29, 2013 10:22 AM   in reply to wmhanks

    I've enjoyed following this thread and have a couple thoughts.

     

    Joining Clips:  I have PC software that came with my Sony and Pansonic cameras that join clips losslessly.  Depending on the project, I will prep clips prior to editing in Premier Elements.  Both are quick and easy. 

     

    Multiple Cameras:  I've done a couple family history projects with my granddaughters that feature a family elder.  Knowing we would combine footage in editing, we designated a primary camera with audio.  The second and third cameras were for the "interest shots" and avoided any and all audio that would need to be synced  -- like moving hands or shots of interested listeners.   Then it is an easy task to remove the audio from the "interest clips" and put them on "video 2" for a few seconds at a time. 

     

    Other editing software:  On a consumer video hardware forum I participate in, Adobe professional products tend not to be favored  --- and less so now that Adobe wants to charge for use by the month.   Most favored in the "pro" category is Sony Vegas.  There are a couple packages.  One is $400, the other $600.  They both seem to offer methods of syncing and combining multiple cameras.  I have no experience with either, but if I stop enjoying Premier Elements and want to "step up" without using the CC rental program I would seriously consider Vegas.  (Yes, Premier Pro was on my shopping and wish lists until Adobe said I could only rent it.)

     

    Bill

     
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    Oct 29, 2013 10:51 AM   in reply to wmhanks

    wmhanks,

     

    The DOS solution is meant to rejoin files that should have been a single file or recording to begin with, but was broken into segments because of file structure and size limitations.  I urge you to attempt it.  ATR's blog posts walk you through the steps very nicely.  I think it will simplify your workflow.

     

    And in all fairness, I learned this method from another forum, so I am just sharing the knowledge.

     

    Joe Klein

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 29, 2013 11:09 AM   in reply to jmklein

    jmklein wrote:

     

     

    The DOS solution is meant to rejoin files that should have been a single file or recording to begin with, but was broken into segments because of file structure and size limitations. 

     

     

    Joe,

     

    I understand that and was not trying to take value away from your suggestion.  My suggestion to this topic is that there are other ways to join files too.

     

    In the Sony and Pansonic software I have, it seems as if Sony and Pansonic are providing a solution to the file size limits imposed by the format limitations.  It is as if they assume their camcorder customers will be taking long, continuous clips that must be "repaired".  So, they make it easy with a GUI instead of a command prompt.

     

    Bill

     
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    Oct 29, 2013 11:17 AM   in reply to whsprague

    Sure Bill, no problem; I didn't take it that way at all.  I don't usually load camera software, as it is usually very limited in capabilities.

     

    Funny, I had my AVCHD camera for more than a year before I ever recorded continuous footage long enough to have it span multiple files.  By then I was totally past looking at the included software.

     

    Cheers,

    Joe

     
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    Oct 29, 2013 11:37 AM   in reply to jmklein

    jmklein wrote:

     

    I don't usually load camera software, as it is usually very limited in capabilities.

     

    Funny, I had my AVCHD camera for more than a year before I ever recorded continuous footage long enough to have it span multiple files. 

    Joe,

     

    My camera software from Sony and Pansonic (both) has three redeeming values. 

     

    1.  They will cut, trim and join losslessly, but only clips from the associated camera.  If lossless editing is a goal, there are very few ways to do it, especially with AVCHD.

     

    2.  They will put clips back on the SD card or camera should you want to use the camera as a playback device.  That might be useful if you were to shoot HD sports footage, want to take it to a little league meeting and don't know what the playback TV is.  My Panasonic AVCHD camcorder came with cords for everything! 

     

    3.  The software will run well on weak computers.  

     

    I too have only done a couple shoots where the clips were so long as to require joining. 

     
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    Oct 29, 2013 12:41 PM   in reply to whsprague

    Thanks Bill.  May have to break out the old software...or download latest from Canon's site.  Could be useful, as you pointed out.

     
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    Oct 30, 2013 6:00 PM   in reply to wmhanks

    Mike,

     

    Thanks for the update.  I too am retired.  Or, at least jobless for now.

     

    I think I understand Adobe's approach.  They have a large collection of creative tools for people that make a living using them.  The CC rental plan seems perfect for that.

     

    We retired or hobbyist folks are apparently a market too small to worry about.  There is no way that I can rationalize giving Adobe $600 a year to use their cool stuff.  If I was "working" at it, the $600 would be a deductible expense!  As a retired guy, it cost too much.

     

    For now, I will adapt my shooting techniques to the lower cost model of Lightroom, Photoshop Elements and Premier Elements.  Do note that if Adobe wants me to send them money, they will have to add more features than they did this year.  I was looking foreword to spending on an upgrade from Elements 11 to 12.  But, there is nothing in the newer version to even begin temptation!

     

    The Adobe switch to the CC cloud may be brilliant for the commercially dependent market, but it does little for the hobby/enthusiast/ amateur group.

     

    Bill

     
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