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robyn_lyons1954
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CYMK

Nov 3, 2013 5:27 PM

I'm making a book using Indesign and a blurb plug in. I'm converting all my old photos (b/w and colour) to a cymk format. Trouble is, they start at around 600kb and end up >16mb when I convert them. At that rate the book will be too big to print. They default compression is set at NONE when I save the file as a TIFF file. What am I doing wrong?

 
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    Nov 4, 2013 12:47 AM   in reply to robyn_lyons1954

    I don't think the sizw on disk is really going to be a factor, but if you want to reduce it either save as .psd or enable LZW compression for your TIFFs.

     
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    Nov 4, 2013 2:48 AM   in reply to robyn_lyons1954

    What makes you think they would be 'too big to print'? Like Peter suggests, it shouldn't matter, except maybe in some extreme situations with files that are orders of magnitude larger than 16MB. I have 600MB image files in some jobs.

     

    Also, converting individual images to CMYK is likely to be unneseccary, and  undesirable if your colour management settings are innappropriate for the printing conditions. Do you know where your book will be printed, and which colour settings/profiles are appropriate? Even if you do, the printer might prefer to do the the conversion at their end. Personally, most of the time I do it when I export the final PDF from InDesign.

     
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    Nov 4, 2013 8:26 AM   in reply to robyn_lyons1954

    (1)     Saving to TIFF LZW or ZIP compression is totally safe and lossless. The compression is significant.

     

    (2)     For photographs, save as maximum quality JPEG, although technically “lossy” normally provides results that are perfectly adequate for high quality printing assuming your initial image is high quality. (JPEG is dissed by purists, but most experts would be very hard pressed to find the difference between output quality of a high quality photo images saved as TIFF versus maximum quality JPEG!)

     

    (3)     There really is no good reason to convert digitial imagery from RGB to CMYK at any time prior to the RIP process. Do you know the exact CMYK print conditions (SWOP, Fogra, Euroscale, ??) that your printer is going to use? If you don't, you are potentially doing much more damage than good. Plus, the PDF file for your book will look pretty poor on-screen. Adobe recommends PDF/X-4 workflows. (Don't convert any RGB artwork to CMYK and export PDF using PDF/X-4 option!)

     

              - Dov

     
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    Nov 4, 2013 11:03 PM   in reply to robyn_lyons1954

    fyou can't estimate file size by adding up the size of your images--a PDF will be considerably smaller than the total of your images file sizes--and BLURB accepts and recommends using a PDF workflow--here is a link to their PDF recommendations

     

    https://support.blurb.com/entries/21851020-InDesign-to-Blurb-PDF-Best- Practices

     

    they even have a plug-in to assist you

     
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    Nov 5, 2013 12:49 AM   in reply to robyn_lyons1954

    robyn_lyons1954 wrote:

    Also, if someone is an expert on scanning photos for this type of project (many are very old black and white) I'd love to hear from them offline if it is more appropriate. At the moment I scan all photos at 600dpi and in colour (even the black and white). Is this appropriate?

    I'm far from an expert, but adequate resolution is usualy based on multiplying the line screen by 2. So, if you are printing at 133lpi, you may not see any increased quality above 266ppi, and if your lpi is 150, you should consider 300ppi. If you don't know the line screen the job will be printed at, you can err on the side of too much resolution, which won't cause lesser quality of the prints. The down side to too much resolution is that it requires more storage space (not so much a problem as it was 10 years ago) and longer RIP times (also less important now than before, but not something you should never think about). Either way, you may not get many experts to recommend 600ppi for photos, although if you are scanning line art, 1,200ppi may be what you want (but in 1-bit mode, not CMYK).

     

    And as far as black and white photos, you may or may not want those printed with four inks, but it's hard to say there is one rule for everything. Grayscale mode for black and white images will only use one channel, and will be much smaller file sizes than CMYK. It's your book, so don't take my word for it—I'm just sayin'.

     
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    Nov 5, 2013 1:16 AM   in reply to robyn_lyons1954

    300ppi will probably be fine, and since I don't know anything about the people and equipment that will be printing your book, I can't say that grayscale should be used, but in most things I've worked on, it was.

     

    Also keep in mind that the resolution in Photoshop is less important than the effective resolution in InDesign. For example, a 300ppi image is only 150ppi if you blow it up to 200% once placed in InDesign. If you look at the links manager, you should see the effective resolution, unless you have an eps, which you probably don't want to use for photos anyway. If you need to place a 1x1 photo at 2x2, then either scan it at 600ppi and enlarge it to 200% in InDesign, or scan it at 2x2 in Photoshop and place it at 100% in InDesign (the second option probably makes more sense if your scanner can handle it). Talk to your printer about CMYK vs Grayscale.

     
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    Nov 5, 2013 9:22 AM   in reply to robyn_lyons1954

    robyn_lyons1954 wrote:

     

    I am using the plug in but blurb says photos should be cmyk. Others are saying no need. I guess I will have to wait for blurb to reply. It would be great if I didn't have to change all my photos.

    You can convert the RGB images to CMYK during the export process by choosing the correct CMYK destination profile. The results will be identical to opeing the image in Photoshop, choosing to convert to the same CMYK profile, and closing the file. The only advantage to doing the conversion in Photoshop is if you actually make other modifications to the image at the same time.

     
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    Nov 5, 2013 9:30 AM   in reply to Migintosh

    Multiplying the linescreen by 2 is standard rule of thumb for calculating the required resolutiuon, but that applies to offset printing and you can reduce it quit a bit for most digital printers, and the actual image content plays a role as well. Hard details require higher resolutions than soft clouds, for example. Also as Michael points out, the resolution is based onthe size at which the image will print, not the size of the original you are scanning.

     

    When my scan destination is grayscale I usually scan in color anyway. First, you never know when you might want the image in color (even for an old Black and White photo), and you have much more control over tonality when you make adjustments in RGB. I often use a B&W adjustment layer to tweak the grays rather than accepting the default conversions, too. You can bring out a lot more detail in a grayscale that way, espeically if making a full-color-to-grayscale conversion.

     
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    Nov 6, 2013 4:51 AM   in reply to Dov Isaacs

    There really is no good reason to convert digitial imagery from RGB to CMYK at any time prior to the RIP process.

    I wish this were the case, but I've discovered, after trying to move from using PDF/X-1a to letting the RIP convert and flatten, that even with all settings apparently the same in the RIP and Adobe software, Adobe does a better job of the conversion than our Fiery RIPs, particularly in out-of-gamut and dark areas. So now, I reluctantly convert to CMYK when I make the PDF for output.

     
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    Nov 6, 2013 5:23 AM   in reply to Danny Whitehead.

    Danny Whitehead. wrote:

     

    There really is no good reason to convert digitial imagery from RGB to CMYK at any time prior to the RIP process.

    I wish this were the case, but I've discovered, after trying to move from using PDF/X-1a to letting the RIP convert and flatten, that even with all settings apparently the same in the RIP and Adobe software, Adobe does a better job of the conversion than our Fiery RIPs, particularly in out-of-gamut and dark areas. So now, I reluctantly convert to CMYK when I make the PDF for output.

     

    Something is very likely wrong with the current settings on your Fiery RIP. You might want to check with EFI tech support on this.

     

              - Dov

     
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    Nov 19, 2013 3:12 AM   in reply to Dov Isaacs

    Something is very likely wrong with the current settings on your Fiery RIP. You might want to check with EFI tech support on this.

     

              - Dov

    I was hoping for that to be the case, but after a fair amount of testing by both myself and EFI techs, we've finally concluded that it's down to a difference between the two CMMs. I think the problem is solved in their System 10 controllers with APPE capabilities, as that uses Adobe's CMM, but  until we replace our System 8R2 controllers (which we can't do without replacing the copiers - another bugbear), I'll have to convert before RIPing.

     
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