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Premiere CC 7.1 - Red frames in playback and export

Nov 14, 2013 9:10 AM

Tags: #error #premiere #export #render #7.1 #red_frame #7.1_update

Having some problems after the 7.1 update.

 

In a variety of projects, on a variety of footage, we're experiencing random fully red frames (#ff000). Sometimes there are 1-2 frames in a clip, and occaisionally it's 80%-90% of the frames in a clip (this is less frequent). It has never been all of the frames of a clip.

 

This happens:

- On an undrendered timeline (you'll be watching an edit and you'll see a red frame - if you scrub back to it it'll still be there)

- On a rendered timeline

- In exports

 

Red frames that are visible on a timeline, are sometimes carried through to the export and sometimes not. Sometimes an exported file will display red frames that were not present on the timeline.

 

Red frames seem to be based on clips, not sequence frames. For example, in one of my exports, I had video footage with a lower third graphic over it. In one frame of the export, a red box appeared over the graphic, but the main shot was not affected.

 

This has happened to the following types of footage:

- .MTS (from C100)

- .MXF (from C300)

- ProRes 422 MOV

- ProRes 4444 MOV with alpha channel

 

Fixes that seem to work:

- If an export has red frames, re-export. Watch the new one like a hawk. Repeat until you get lucky.

- If a clip on a timeline has red frames, force a re-render via a Crop filter or similar

- Quit Premiere and reopen it

 

System/environment details:

- OSX 10.8.5

- Premiere Pro CC 7.1

- Mercury Playback Engine Software Only

- Often (always?) I-Frame Only MPEG sequence settings

- Much (all?) of the footage we've been working with has been on AFP shares via GigE with MTU of 9000

 

I haven't been able to confirm yet:

- Whether this ever happens with locally stored footage

- Whether this ever happens when Queueing to media encoder (rather than Exporting from Premiere)

- Whether changing to a QuickTime Desktop based sequence setting resolves the issue

 

Is anyone else experiencing this issue? It's frutstratingly un-testable, since it seems to happen at random. We'll continue to gather data points though and see if we notice any other trends.

 

Edit: Added additional system context

 
Replies 1 2 3 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 14, 2013 12:01 PM   in reply to Nick_HE

    I've had it happen to me. Do you use cuda? what's your card? We've had the same workflow for 2 years with premiere and this just popped up with the 7.1 update.

    It's a roll of the dice. Kevin Monahan said it was corrupted frames, but they come and go.

     

    I can tell you it happens both in queue and export.

     

    I love adobe and have been using their products for so, so long. Kinda bummed about being an unwilling beta tester though. Hope they fix it soon.

     
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    Nov 14, 2013 6:52 PM   in reply to Nick_HE

    I am experiencing similiar issues. On the last project, I would see random red frames within clips on the timeline. NO FIX

     

     

    Now on this project, I am seeing red thumbnails on a majority of my clips in the timeline. Even at the beginning, the red thumbnail would indicate that the first frame is red, but as you can see in my screenshot (Program monitor) I have the first frame selected on the timeline and it isn't red (Like the thumbnail suggests) When played through there isn't any red frames in the clip at all.

    Screen Shot 2013-11-14 at 9.32.03 PM.png

    It's not entirely too bad since the red frames aren't actually in my clips but it makes navigating more difficult because I can't see the thumbnail preview.

     

    Specs

    Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration (CUDA)

    Format: Quicktime

    Previews: Apple Prores 422HQ

    All clips are transcoded to Prores 422HQ

     

    My temporary fix for the thumbnails is trim off the first frame of the affected clips and the 2nd frame displays in the thumbnail properly.

     

     

    I hope there is an update to fix this SOON!

     
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    Nov 14, 2013 9:48 PM   in reply to JustinDombrowski

    Why don't you forget transcoding altogether and just edit natively? Transcoding is a Mac idiosyncrasy.

     
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    Nov 18, 2013 11:53 AM   in reply to Nick_HE

    I'm in the same boat. I work at a network who decided to move to Premiere after the FCPX release. It's been one problem after another, with the red frames being the latest thing.

     

    We've been doing this since CS 5.5. In my experience, Transcoding footage to ProRes has improved Premiere's performance - and now it's a part of our workflow unless I'm just going to cut natively in RED.

     

    Nick_HE - I don't have a fix for the problem. It seems random. Usually it's only one frame for me and if I offline the file in question, then re-online it, it generally solves the issue. If you render footage with the red frame in it, you'll need to get rid of the rendered files and start over once the red frame is out. To do that quickly, I usually throw some footage below the clip in question causing everything to need to be re-rendered again. Hope this makes sense...

     

    The issue is especially troublesome when we work with outside FX houses who deliver in ProRes 4444. We just had a project with a lot of green screen work and this new update really screwed us. It wasn't anticipated, so a lot of time was spent using a codec that wouldn't give us issues, like Animation or PNG sequences.

     

    Frankly, I like a lot of things that Premiere has to offer, but it's just not solid. When I have a full work day ahead of me I need every second I can get, and Premiere tends to waste a lot of my time and be generally unresponsive. For small projects it's okay but I'd really prefer to be cutting in Avid.

     
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    Nov 18, 2013 12:23 PM   in reply to Nick_HE

    We use mac mased Adobe Premiere CC and have been having all of the same issues. Our work arounds have been restarting and re exporting. We are using shared storage and i've been trying export to local, which seems to have helped in the last round of commercials we did.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 18, 2013 1:48 PM   in reply to nBiOcBk

    Show of hands, please: Is your source content stored locally or "other"--on a network server, another computer, etc.

     
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    Nov 18, 2013 2:03 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    Had it happen both locally and over our network.

     
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    Nov 18, 2013 2:06 PM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    The source content for my facility is on a shared storage system http://www.maxxdigital.com/fs/

    We keep scratch disks local on an external hardrive.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2013 1:09 AM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    I'm having the same issue on local drive on a Mac Pro with QT Prores files.

     
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    Nov 19, 2013 1:59 AM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    same problem here, intermittent red frames from various source materials stored on an external esata Raid drive.

    just got picture lock yesterday and need to finish this project so any word that this issues can be solved would be greatly appreciated - Brian

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2013 3:09 AM   in reply to Mark Mapes

    Just adding myself to the thread here. I too have been experiencing this problem since the 7.1.0 update.

     

    I'm working with 1080/25p ProRes4444 (non alpha) source material with overlayed PSD graphics all in a ProRes4444 sequence. The red flash frames are completely random (i.e. they don't occur on the same frame each time).

    The project and source material is all on a network server (afp). However, the problem has also occurred on the server machine as well, which is directly attached via 8Gb fiber, so I would suspect that network drives aren't the issue here.

     

    The problem has presented itself both during playback in a non-rendered sequence and on exports to ProRes422 HQ. The red frames are visible both on the program monitor and on my external monitor (via Blackmagic 4K Extreme).

     

    All machines in question are Mac Pros running OSX 10.8.5

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2013 8:45 AM   in reply to Nick_HE

    Yes, I'd like to add myself to the list of red frames problem.  We're on a 12core MacPro, Quadro 4000 card with latest drivers editing a one hour 1080/60i prores timeline.  GPU acceleration.

     

    This is a totally random occurrance and there seems to be no consistent pattern.  I have a back ground clip I use under 4:3 SD upconverted footage and the exact same clip will be clean, then when I put it under another clip it will have red frames.  Each time I paste it the red frames show up in a different spot, but if you play the clip in the viewer, of course no red frames.  Seems to be a render issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2013 8:47 AM   in reply to jwffvm

    Footage is on internal 2TB 7200 RPM drives and a 2.5 TB Xserve raid

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2013 8:58 AM   in reply to jwffvm

    I just did a test exporting a short 40 second clip that had red frames without first rendering it in timeline.  The exported clip is clean.  On the timeline the indicator line was red and when I scrubbed thru the clip no red frames, but if i render it I get the red frames, but when exported no red frames.

     

    This may be a work around.  I'll try more and let you know.

     

    jw

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2013 10:03 AM   in reply to jwffvm

    jwffvm wrote:

     

    ...if i render it I get the red frames, but when exported no red frames.

     

    To be honest I think that may have just been luck - I've experienced success and failures with every combination of render and export. Also remember that unless you select 'Use Previews' in the export window the renders are disregarded anyway.

     
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    Nov 19, 2013 10:17 AM   in reply to AlexElkins

    So far it' worked on 4 different instances of red frames, but if it's luck, then I'll take it.  Thx....jw

     
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    Nov 19, 2013 12:02 PM   in reply to Nick_HE

    Hi all,

    I heard from my colleagues in Support. They say if you experience this problem, a work around is to trash your Media Cache files prior to exporting. Let us know if that is working while we look for a solid fix.

     

    Thanks,

    Kevin

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2013 2:52 PM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    HI Kevin,

     

    Exporting we didn't have a problem with red frames it was rendering on the timeline that produced them.  I trashed the media cache files and that seems to have solved the issue rendering on the timeline. 

     

    How often should we be trashing the media cache?

     

    thx...jw

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2013 2:54 PM   in reply to jwffvm

    JW,

    That's just the thing, you should not have to. It's a bug. Feel free to file your bug report here: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish. Hopefully, we'll have a fix soon.

     

    In the mean time, I would trash the media cache any time it's needed. If you don't use preview files in your final encode, you may as well trash them before exporting.

     

    Thanks,

    Kevin

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2013 3:10 PM   in reply to Nick_HE

    i'm aware this is a PREMIERE thread, but i have exactly this problem now in AE (12.1) since upgrading from 12.0 to 12.1 (AE version numbers)

     

    problem only happens when rendering MP. the red frames appear in the renders only since the upgrade, and only when using prores clips as source items in comps.

     

    the red frames appear regardless of render settings, the problem seems to be how the prores source clips are interpreted.

     

    problem does not appear when using image sequences as clips in comps.

     

    red frames appear completely randomly. (sometimes not, but mostly - also after fresh reboots, and no other apps running)

     

    cleared media cache files - did not help. tried prores footage from local drives and external drives and network drives - problem persists. tried many different prores source files - problem persists. tried increasing memory assigned to each core - problem persists.

     

    only solution for me at the moment is rendering with the "MP" option disabled (yet this is very much slower of course)

     

    mac pro 2011, 12 cores, osx 10.8.5, 64 GB ram, angelbird SSD, ati hd radeon 5770 1GB

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 20, 2013 8:13 AM   in reply to Nick_HE

    I had a situation last night where I could not get rid of the red frames on export. I ended up using Omni Disk Sweeper to clear out all the hidden cashe files in the library, which got rid of the frames after a restart. Just a heads up if your looking for a fix to deliver something!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 25, 2013 3:09 AM   in reply to ivanengler

    I have the same thing happening in AE 12.1...

    iMac 2013, Mavericks

     
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    Nov 26, 2013 3:38 PM   in reply to ivanengler

    Similar system to ivanengler

     

    mac pro 2010 2.93 twelve core, osx 10.8.5, 64gigs, Quadro 4000, Facilis Fiber Storage for project assets.  Local eXcelior SSD 448 drive for boot and caching.

     

    This was happening to the other guys here on Premiere and then today, started happening to me on AE 12.1.  Today started working with a 3 minute long QT Prores 444 movie.  Overlaying some stuff over that.  During render getting red frames EVEN with MP turned off.  Had already figured out the cache clearing thing, but it did still happen again, but randomly.  Did it twice, then not the next time.

     

    Just thought I would add to the pile here.

     
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    Nov 27, 2013 8:16 AM   in reply to daddyoktm

    Same here with Premiere Pro 7.1 (and Media Encoder 7.1 too renders random red frames).  Noticed that the random red frames always occurs when ProRes4444 are overlayed with alpha on other footage, but this correlation may not be 100% safe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2013 9:58 AM   in reply to Nick_HE

    yes, please ADOBE developpers, it's really time to react now - at least a statement that you have heard of the issue and that you are working on it. because, as nick said, it's crucial that we can render in PR and AE without red flash frames - and it's definitely a BUG and not user malconfigurations.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2013 10:59 AM   in reply to ivanengler

    Agreed.

     

    For now, is there any way to roll back Premiere to just 7.0?

     
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    Nov 28, 2013 2:24 AM   in reply to nick g

    I would like to roll back, but unfortunetely AE won't run on Mavericks without the update installed.

     

    Fact is it has to do with ProRes, mostly ProRes4444. It has nothing to do with Mavericks, I have these problems also in ML.

     

    I'm facing another problem, that might be related to his one. Whenever I "collect files" for a project, I starts copying and then stops giving me an error.

    It always stops while copying - guess what - ProRes-files. So there must be something wrong with the prores file handling.

     

    What I don't get is, that we seem to be the only ones the have these kind of problems.

    I tried to install a fresh osx with only AE 12.1 - and the error appears. So how can it be that it works on other peoples machines?

    I think ProRes is not that special...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2013 8:40 AM   in reply to shycollective

    shycollective wrote:

     

    What I don't get is, that we seem to be the only ones the have these kind of problems.

    I think we may be the only ones reporting it on this particular forum. It doesn't mean others aren't experiencing it. I've read other people posting about it on Creative Cow and here we have three Premiere installations and all of them suffer from the same issue. Bear in mind also that ProRes4444 isn't all that common - its usage is essentially limited to people who are:

    • On Macs
    • Working with high-end source material - Alexa namely, plus transcoded raw files for onlining/finishing. There aren't that many other reasons for ProRes4444 besides the alpha channel thing.

     

    All that aside, I have so far found that clearing the media cache before exporting is a good workaround and as yet I've not seen any more flash frames. It's just a pain not being able to 100% trust your exports.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2013 8:49 AM   in reply to AlexElkins

    Yes, I use this workaround as well and it works for me. Thanks for the hint.

     

    As an EPIC owner and davinci operator, I use this workflow on a daily base and I expect it to work without any problems as it did for years now. Things like this can happen, but Adobe really should say something about it and deliver a fix (not a workaround) soon - cause that's what they told us when they released CC, that they can quickly update their products, when needed.

     

    The next time they release an update I'll need to prepare a second system just to test this little update, just to make sure I can continue to work on my projects.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2013 9:03 AM   in reply to shycollective

    shycollective wrote:

     

    Adobe really should say something about it and deliver a fix (not a workaround) soon - cause that's what they told us when they released CC, that they can quickly update their products, when needed.

    I completely agree. I've wasted hours since the update first troubleshooting and now having to watch every single export like a hawk to make sure things are safe to send to clients, not to mention the embarassment of having these flash frames pointed out by clients in the first place. Nobody is paying for that extra time spent doing this on projects except the editors/companies involved.

     

    I'm a little disappointed that the standard response from Adobe when acknowledging a bug is to tell people to report it through their feature request page. Why? Do Adobe only fix bugs if enough people complain??

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2013 9:09 AM   in reply to shycollective

    the error also appears with PRORES 422 files, but only after a certain amount of source data from prores 422 clips is processed / read

     

    i made a test comp in AE with only one gigantic prores 422 source clip (8000 pixels x 1000 pixels @25fps) and the error first appeared at around 1500 frames read from the source file (equalling a few GB of source read and processed). after the red frames error appears once, the erroneous red frames appear more often but never in the same place when rendering the same comp several times)

     

    i also made a test comp containing only a few full HD prores 422 clips (1920 x 1080, @25fps), there the error appeared only seldom (but still randomly). so it can be that a broader user base never experiences this erroneous behaviour at all.

     

    i also made a testcomp containing about 40 full HD prores 422 clips (each 1920 x 1080, scaled down to 10% in size and distributed all over the comp so i can see them all at once). the erroneous red frames appeared within the first rendered frames!! obviously, many qt files had to be open and read in parallel, and so the error appeared from the very beginning of the rendering / export.

     

    i suspect that the AE / PR applications open a RAM buffer for each open prores source file they need to read, and that this buffers somehow becomes compromised when it overflows and when buffer resize / buffer clear / flush operations take place.

     

    of course i tested all sorts of RAM assignents for MP rendering (1GB per core, 2GB, 4GB, 6GB) and i rendered with several different settings of how many cores and ram should be available to other tasks. but the error always appeared. randomly.

     

    --> fact in AE is, that nearly all MP renders / exports using prores clips as source files contained the bad red frames. when rendering without the MP option on (but of course up to 20x slower) so far i never experienced this error (of course always after fresh restarts once the error appeared)

     

    PLEASE FIX THIS ASAP

     

    mac pro 2011, 12 cores, osx 10.8.5, 64 GB ram, angelbird SSD, ati hd radeon 5770 1GB

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 28, 2013 9:18 AM   in reply to AlexElkins

    I'm getting the same problem in exports, but the workaround mentioned earlier solved my problems and allowed me to deliver videos without red frames. Just manually delete the cache before exporting.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2013 5:21 AM   in reply to Nick_HE

    Hi!  We have the same problem aswell, our solution is to use Adobe media encoder to do the final rendering instead. Same projects that show redframes when exporting using PP are gone when using AMC . i Really hope there will be a solution to this problem.

     
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