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Lightroom 5.2 vs. Canon EOS 70D RAW

Nov 16, 2013 9:56 AM

Hello,

 

I am testing the trial version of Lightroom 5.2. My new camera is a Canon EOS 70D. When importing RAW files into Lightroom the colors of some photos are wrong. RAWs from my older 450D are fine.

 

For example on one photo the sky isn't blue but turquoise. When using the DNG Converter I get the same color. The sky was blue though. When opening the file in Digital Photo Professional by Canon, the sky is blue as it should be.

 

It happens on some other photos as well. Mostly if they have a high blue content. If in Lightroom I increase the blue content and decrease the shades it almost looks as it should.

 

The question now is: am I doing something wrong, do I need an update or additional plugins or is Lightroom simply interpreting the RAW wrong and will it be solved soon?

 

Cheers,

 

Sheepy

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 17, 2013 3:30 AM   in reply to Sheepy

    You're probably doing nothing wrong - different converters (and viewers) render colours differently, and we can't really expect Adobe to exactly match Canon's colours (although they do try to get close). It's also possible that the 70D Lr profile is a work in progress

     

    It's no surprise that DPP and Irfanview are both about the same - Irfanview uses the preview jpg embedded in the Raw file, so in essence it's showing you Canon's idea of proper colour, just like DPP.

     

    And RT's blue sky is different again to Lr's and DPP's rendering.

     

    Which Picture Style are you using in-camera/in DPP? and which Profile in Lr? Are they equivalent? (They can't be the same - Lr can't use DPP's profiles - but as I suggest, Adobe's profies are an attempt to approximate the in-camera colours. Sometimes they do very well, sometimes less so).

     

    Try "Camera Landscape" and see if that improves the blues in the image.

     

    Understand though, that you might eventually need to create your own "tweaked" profile to get the sky just how you like it - have a play with the "Blue Primary" Hue slider get to rid of the turquoise colour cast.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 17, 2013 4:40 AM   in reply to Keith_Reeder

    In addition to what Keith mentioned are you hardware calibrating your monitor?

     

    LR automatically uses the monitor profile assigned in the OS color management, but DPP, IrFanviewiew and RawTherapee require manually selecting the monitor profile in their color managment preferences settings. If you don't do this an sRGB profile is used by default.

     

    If you are concerned about "accurate" color rendering you should consider using both a hardware monitor calibrator and ColorChecker Passport to create calibrated camera profiles and white balance settings for each camera body, and for different lighting conditions.

     

    Lacking a CCPP you could as Keith suggested attempt to correct the colors using the controls in LR's Camera Calibration panel. If you are happy with the results make sure to save the Camera Calibration settings as a Develop Preset or in the Camera Profile Default settings.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 17, 2013 4:52 AM   in reply to trshaner

    trshaner wrote:

     

    LR automatically uses the monitor profile assigned in the OS color management

     

    Ah, good point, Todd - I'd completely forgotten that.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 17, 2013 6:05 AM   in reply to Sheepy

    Sheepy wrote:

    So considering that the 70D profile in LR is preliminary and will be adjusted later, how long to your experience does it take and how to get it once it's there? I mean, the colors differ quite a lot in my opinion, so if Adobe tries to get close there will probably be some changes.

    LR5.2 Final Release has the final Canon 70D camera profiles. They probably won't be updated unless there are  issues reported by many LR users. The color issues you are seeing are very typical with ALL camera models for the reasons Keith mentioned. I've found the DPP camera profiles to be more color accurate than LR's with my 300D, 600D, and 5D MKII, but my CCPP created profiles are even better.

     

    Sheepy wrote:

    Considering I'll have to make my own profile I'll probably find a help thread somewhere. Will that profile apply automatically for all images taken with that camera? So I try to find good settings which match most of the images and then use it on all images?

    Considering that your monitor is not hardware calibrated this is probably an exercise in futility. You have no idea what Color Temperature (6500K), Gamma (2.2), or Luminance level (120cd/m2) your monitor is displaying, which dramatically affects the color. If your only concern is how the images look on this one monitor, then go for it! If you intend on making prints or sending the images to other people you should definitely hardware calibrate your monitor. Lacking that you're probably better off shooting in-camera raw + JPEG and send the JPEG files uncorrected in LR for printing or emailing.

     

    It's obvious you are concerned about how your images look (accurate or not) inside LR. You should be equally concerned about how they'll look in print or other monitors (calibrated or not). Your best solution is to beg, borrow, or buy a good hadware monitor calibrator. Once that is accomplished you'll be working with 20/20 color vision when making your adjustments inside LR.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 17, 2013 10:30 AM   in reply to trshaner

    Here's a typical example of what I'm seeing with my Canon bodies using different camera profiles inside LR. This is a raw file from a Canon 300D with all three images using identical settings inside LR except for the camera profile:

     

    Click on image to see full-size.

    Camera Profile Examples.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 24, 2013 7:44 AM   in reply to Sheepy

    Simply and with good conscience? Of course you can. That's what Lightroom is for. If you find that your images are consistently showing a green tint then you can use the tint slider to adjust that until it looks right. Additionally you can use the hue/saturation sliders to adjust further. When you are satisfied, save new camera defaults. That will make that adjustment your default setting, and it will be applied automatically whenever you import new images. It wouldn't change images that are already imported unless you clicked on the reset button. But if you do that, any other adjustments that you had made would be reset as well.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 24, 2013 8:41 AM   in reply to Sheepy

    The most recently posted images ALL look pretty good and have good color accuracy.

    Sheepy wrote:

    Now that I managed to get the photos to look (almost) the same in all the applications that I use (FF, LR, IV being the most important) and having the monitors calibrated I can go back to my original question.

     

    How comes that the sky looks so green although it wasn't when I shot the photo? Are there any more settings that I can make to get the colors on import better? Can I simply and with good conscience move my sliders now so that the image looks the way I like it and others will see it the same way (mainly on a website)?

    From your description I would investigate the WB setting, which for Green shift usually means the WB Tint setting is wrong for the lighting at the time the images were shot. You may also need to adjust the WB Temp setting. If your using 'As Shot' White Balance in the LR Basic Panel, try setting it to 'Daylight' for these images. If you have  a neutral gray or white (but not clipped) area in the picture you can use the WB Eyedropper tool. I would suggest investing in a White Balance card and shoot it  to establish your own "custom" Daylight  (Sunny, Cloudy), Tungsten, and other lighting conditions you use. You can then create Develop Presets for each lighting condition that use your custom measured WB settings. I also set my Develop module "Default Settings" to the most used lighting condition, which for me is Sunny Daylight. I've found the WB settings do NOT need to be changed when switching Camera Profiles from Adobe Standard to the Camera Standard, Camera Landscape, etc. profiles.

     

    http://www.amazon.com/GENUINE-WhiBal-Certified-Neutral-Balance/dp/B004 G3NW5M/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

     

    Sheepy wrote:

    Edit 2: When clicking on the images in this post they have the original color.

    When viewing posted images in a web browser they will never look identical to the view in LR, which is more accurate due a wider colorspace and bit depth. (sRGB/ProPhoto and 8/16 bit).

     

    IMHO, using the LR Camera Calibration controls without a good "calibrated" reference image like the ColorChecker will most likely cause more issues than they correct. To get more accurate colors beyond simply correcting the White Balance I highly recomend purchasing a ColorChecker Passport, which uses a LR plugin to "automatically" create a "custom" camera profile for each of your cameras. You'll still need to measure and set the WB, but that's a simple process using the ColorChecker image. You then save the WB settings with the the custom CCPP camera profile as a Develop preset. You can also set your most used WB setting (Sunny Daylight?) and the custom Camera profile as part of your LR "Default Settings."

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 26, 2013 1:06 PM   in reply to Sheepy

    Sheepy wrote:

    I think you are seeing different things from what I see. I exported a green sky from LR. I see the exported jpegs green and I see it green in the forum if I click on the images. With green I mean not some not so blue but rather into turqoise. At my computer at work I see all pictures in the marvellous blue that I assume you are seeing as well.

    The blue sky in the screenshot images in post #8 have virtually no green tint that I can see on my hardware calibrated standard gamut (~sRGB gamut) monitor.

     

    Something is wrong with the monitor profile and/or monitor. What model monitor(s) are you using and is it a LR dual-screen configuration? Also what hardware calibrator did you use and with what settings (For example: 6500K, 2.2. Gamma, 120cd/m2)?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 26, 2013 2:47 PM   in reply to Sheepy

    A DeltaE of 10.97 is going to be visible. Upload the i1 Display created profile to this site and compare it to sRGB to see what the gamut looks like:

     

    http://www.iccview.de/content/view/3/7/lang,en/

     

    Post a screenshot showing the missing area (probably Blue).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2013 1:25 PM   in reply to Sheepy

    Yes, there is a large part of the sRGB Blue-Purple gamut (under B- axis) your monitor is not capable of displaying. This is surprising since the Samsung S24A450BW uses an LED backlight, which should have very little color-shift due to aging and a wider gamut than CCFL backlight monitors. My HP 2509m TN monitor uses CCFL backlights and is showing signs of aging with a shift to Yellow. My monitor has better gamut under the -B axis, which I beleive is causing the green tint. As bad as my monitor gamut looks it displays the ColorChecker Passport 24 color patches with very good accuracy, except the one deep Blue patch is slightly less saturated.

     

    Suggestions:

     

    -Use a DVI connection and not VGA. Make sure the OS Display settings show 32bit color mode.

     

    -Check all of the monitor's control settings and turn off any Contrast or Brightness Enhancements such as "Samsung Magic."

     

    -Set Contrast control to equivalent of 75 out of 100 maximum and leave it there during calibration.

     

    - Set the i1 Display software Preferences or Options to ICC2 and Matrix profile type.

     

    - Calibrate using a Color Temp 6500K (D65), Luminance level of 120 cd/m2, and 2.2 Gamma.

     

    - Use the monitor's custom RGB color controls to establish the 6500K target White Point at the begining of the calibration.

     

    - Use only the Brightness control (if possible) to set the target 120cd/m2 Luminace level.

     

    - Run the calibration and when completed check that the new profile is assigned under the OS Color Management.

    Monitor sRGB Gamut Compare.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 27, 2013 5:32 PM   in reply to Sheepy

    Check your display Control Panel and make sure nothing is set off defaults. Here's my Nvidia Control Panel. If the monitors are still under warranty consider contacting Samsung Tech Support with the issue. They may be aware of a manufacturing issue and offer repair under warranty or other remediation.

     

    Nvidia Control Panel.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 1, 2013 8:56 AM   in reply to Sheepy

    The Windows OS Color Management controls profile assignment. The monitors should appear as separate 'Display1' and 'Display 2' devises, allowing them to be assigned separate profiles. What monitor calibration software did you use and did you give the profiles different names so you can identify the profiles? If so you can manually assign the profiles using Windows Color Management.

     

    Regardless of the above issue the gamut of the monitor displayed in the 3D profile viewer is what it is......Please keep us posted on Samsung's response.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 4:44 PM   in reply to Sheepy

    It's hard to believe that an LED backlight monitor has poorer blue gamut than a CCFL TN monitor, but Samsung wouldn't tell you that unless it was true.

     

    Just to rule at issues with the monitor profile try assiging the sRGB.icc profile in Windows Color Management to one of the monitors and see how that looks with LR.

     
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