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Adobe, please stop running from this issue! (GPU vs CPU anomalies / fades)

Nov 22, 2013 9:35 AM

Tags: #issue #mercury #smooth #gpu #crossfade #fades

Adobe,

 

I have tried to bring this issue to light many times, and your own users have argued it ad finem, but to no avail! I am TIRED of getting terrible alpha blending (and opacity curve) results with GPU acceleration enabled, vs CPU. In fact, it is SO BAD that I NEVER work with GPU acceleration any more.

 

Here is the issue:

 

When GPU acceleration is enabled, you simply CANNOT do a smooth fade and/or cross dissolve. It appears to fade down smoothly to about 20% opacity, and then the next frame it will jump right to 0% quite abruptly and disappear. It's almost as if the fade simply gives up and switches off! Regardless of whether you use Cross Dissolve, or Film Dissolve the results are the same. Also, your alpha blending is all messed up, CLEARLY showing a different result when comparing CPU and GPU rendering outputs. Once again, this issue ONLY exists with GPU acceleration ENABLED. Switch off GPU/MPE and the problems disappear. But of course you lose the speed and other benefits GPU acceleration offers, which would be great to have! Especially seeing as I have also heard (from various other resources) that GPU acceleration can improve the quality of rendering out to compressed formats like H264. But we will never know that, will we? Because, every time I enable GPU, my fades and blending looks noticeably bad!

 

I have seen in various other threads that your response has been along the lines of: "That's just the way it is". But unless your name is Bruce Hornsby, this response is unacceptable! You cannot advertise a "great feature" of your products (in this case, GPU/MPE), yet when people try to use it and see odd results, simply tell us: "oh by the way, yeah, it does not work in a few scenarios, like fading, but otherwise you are good to go!" The way I see it: cross-fades (even fades in general) as well as opacity/blending are some of the most common, if not THE most common techniques used in video projects! Having an anomaly of this nature showing a DISTINCT difference in quality output when one of your fantastic "features" is enabled is just poor form. What is evern poorer is your responses (or lack thereof) related to the issue. Especially seeing as this problem has been present since CS5, and now we are STILL seeing it in CC!

 

Here is a thread which documents the issue well (even shows examples, and other details someone prepared for you to apparently ignore):

 

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/773441

 

...it was never addressed there.

 

Another issue which details it going back as far as CS 5.5:

 

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/987306

 

...once again, never resolved.

 

Now I am using CC, latest version, up-to-date, a fast i7 processor, a CUDA supported card, and all of those go to waste because I have to have GPU and the mercury playback engine disabled to yield decent quality results.

 

I implore you, not just for myself, but on behalf of everybody here who has already addressed this issue, but has had their pleas fall on deaf ears: PLEASE FIX THIS PROBLEM. Telling us simply that: "This is the way GPU cards choose to render" is NOT ACCEPTABLE. It's just like me saying when I drive my car on the wrong side of the road: "that's just the way I drive!". Doesn't mean it is acceptable!

 

You may have won people over since Final Cut Pro screwed the pooch with version X... but I can guarantee if this does not get resolved soon, the issue won't just be isolated to the forums here. Expect to read about it in MANY online publications that I am sure your competitors will ENJOY watching!

 

Mat.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2013 10:05 AM   in reply to Cubase

    Hi Mat,

    Sorry you're having trouble. Is "Composite in Linear Color" enabled in your Sequence Settings? If not, please enable it and compare the results.

     

    Thanks,

    Kevin

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2013 11:33 AM   in reply to Cubase

    I too would like to hear a more in-depth explanation of this.

     

    Cubase... I am experiencing the same issues with the same results, and like you, I'm trying to wrap my head around what Premiere is doing.  Basic name supers created in the Title window inside Premiere look awful when you apply a shadow, I suppose this is a result of the blending issues you mention.  The only safe output is attained when MPE hardware acceleration is disabled in software only mode.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 22, 2013 12:42 PM   in reply to Cubase

    Cubase,

     

    I 100% agree, and you have the issue well documented.  I have filled out a bug report about my experiences with this back in CS6 and now CC, but have heard nothing.  These are not instances that only appear in high-end compositing, they are pretty basic occurrences in real world editing.  They must be addressed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 26, 2013 10:19 AM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    Kevin,

     

    Is there any response to these inconsistencies?  Mat has this very well documented.

     

    Bug reports have been sent in.

     

    Is there any plan to address these issues?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 26, 2013 10:50 AM   in reply to gandem_

    +1

     

    Richard Knight

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2013 10:12 PM   in reply to Cubase

    This is a user forum.  Staff participation is never guaranteed.

     

    Chances are you will be waiting far longer for a fix that any deadlines for current projects.  My advice is to use Software only for now.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 30, 2013 10:44 AM   in reply to Cubase

    Probably as long as they feel other matters take priority, which none of us can predict.

     

    Hell, it took them 8 years and 6 versions to fix subclips, which got broke in CS2 and didn't get fixed until CC.  (And even now there are some issues still.)

     

    It's kind of a "squeaky wheel" situation, and we mere users have no way of knowing how many squeaks Adobe is seeing on any given issue.  What I can say is that only the bug reports count on that tally.  Forums posts do not.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 30, 2013 10:50 AM   in reply to Cubase

    Cubase,

     

    If the text in your project is titles created in Premiere Pro's Title Designer, can you please send me the project file so i can see this and test it here.  Or, send the images as well as the project file. Send it to roger at lrtv dot se

     

    /Roger

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 7:48 AM   in reply to Cubase

    Cubase,

     

    Have you ever been contacted by Adobe in any form concerning this issue?

     

    After filing 3 bug reports, two for CS6 and 1 for CC with this identical issue, I have never been contacted.

     

    You would think that after submitting this issue through proper channels 3 times, that there would be some acknowledgement of the issue or a comment on status.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 7:57 AM   in reply to gandem_
    You would think that after submitting this issue through proper channels 3 times, that there would be some acknowledgement of the issue or a comment on status.

     

    I wouldn't think that at all.  I'm sure Adobe get's a lot of reports.  They follow up on very, very few.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 8:21 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Seriously?

     

    You have an issue that affects, dare I say, anyone who is using hardware acceleration, whether they realize it or not.

     

    The only known workaround, as Cubase shows us, is to not use hardware acceleration. (Arguably the biggest selling point for using Premiere)

     

    Don't you think the users deserve some kind of attention/communication from Adobe, either through official channels, or here on the public forum?

     

    Or is denial not just the name of a river in Egypt?

     

    I am a fan, and a user, however this issue needs to be addressed, and it all begins with admitting you have a problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 10:57 AM   in reply to gandem_

    I have no issue with transitions using Liner Color, so this does not affect me at all.  I'd wager that holds true for most PP users.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 11:46 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim,

     

    In the first linked discusssion, posted by Cubase, you appear to have been in the same boat as us with hardware acceleration.  What version did you stop having the issue?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 11:51 AM   in reply to Cubase

    I have  a little time on my hands today.

     

    If some wants to clearly outline a little test  and methodology  ..I am happy to test it here.

     

    WIn 7 , CC7.1

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 4:12 PM   in reply to Cubase

    Hi Mat,

     

    First of all I want to say that it's nice to see another forum member bring up an issue so clearly and concisely as you do!

     

    My experience with this serious issue is this: I brought it to Adobe's attention when I was beta testing CS5 for them.  I provided sample images and went to full nine yards to explain the issue.  The sense I got is that it basically fell on deaf ears.  I was even told that there is no problem.  In other words, they were right and I was wrong for thinking there's an issue.  Hmmm...  (unfortunately I saw that attitude of 'We're right and you're wrong' time and time again while beta testing for them, a real shame since ego tends to get in the way progress)

     

    I hope more and more people chime in and speak up to get this big problem fixed once and for all.  For now, any time I do a fade on a clip above another clip, I use opacity keyframes with Bezier curves.  It works but it's so much more time consuming then if crossfades simply worked the way they should (and did prior to CS5).  It's a workaround for now, but being able to hike around the canyon is no excuse for the bridge being broken, so to speak.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 5:06 PM   in reply to shooternz

    Win 7 , CC7.1

     

    I proceeded with some very basic tests and was a little surprised with what I discovered.

     

    I set a Color Bars Clip in a Timeline and applied a Fade to the tail of it.

     

    I opened a Reference Monitor with Waveform Monitoring and I frame by framed thru the Fade ( 25 frame transition).  Steps seemed logical and linear . ie no jumps.

     

    CPU, GPU and Linear settings changed nothing.

     

    Then I noticed in the monitors (including broadcast monitor) that the final frame left a "residual " image of the bars. ie not a black frame.

     

    Then I applied an  Opacity (25 frames)  keyframed effect from the timeline  on top of the Fade Transition.

     

    Last frame is Black. Waveform is identical (ie no change to Black Base .3).

     

    FWIW: I was unable to Frame Grab any of this within the transitions to show this!  Why ?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 6:04 PM   in reply to Cubase

    Linear Color does work to fix the clunky transitions

     

    Turning off Linear Color does that.  I'm saying I have no issues with transitions keeping that turned on.  Their appearance doesn't bother me at all.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2013 6:07 PM   in reply to gandem_

    In the first linked discusssion, posted by Cubase

     

    I only had a problem if the title was over a black clip.  Take out that black clip and there was no problem.  I still do this today.

     
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