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Not another framework!!!

Feb 20, 2014 3:10 PM

I am usng HTML5, CSS3, Bootstrap, jQuery.

 

You also have all these other frameworks, Angular, LESS, SASS, Node, Blah, Blah, Blah.

 

I am sure they are all great and serve a purpose. I have noticed an explosion of all these frameworks over the last few years. You can't learn everthing and if you learn one thing it might fade out or be superseeded by another.

 

Does anyone see this merging into a few main frameworks? If so which ones?

 

Which ones would you spend serious time to learn? I know it depends on what you want to do... but generally?

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2014 3:33 PM   in reply to ottz0

    How much manual coding do you do? 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2014 4:31 PM   in reply to ottz0

    SASS and LESS are CSS pre-processing languages that reduce the amount of code you write.  Chris Coyier discusses the merits of both below

    http://css-tricks.com/sass-vs-less/

     

    I think modular PHP frameworks are definitely the way forward because so many routines are covered by the built-in libraries and helper files.   A huge time saver if you can stomach the initial learning curve.

    http://www.sitepoint.com/best-php-frameworks-2014/

     

    I've used CodeIgnitor but Laravel looks the most promising.

     

     

     

    Nancy O.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2014 5:05 PM   in reply to ottz0

    Better to have choice, than no choice at all (are you reading this Adobe? Hint, hint).

     

    To really value the benefits of Sass, NodeJS, Angular, UnderscoreJs, and so on, you need to get more into javascript application coding and server side coding. Then you will start understanding the point. And, like Nancy wrote, the same holds true for php frameworks and libraries. And the greatest thing is that if one particular framework does not suit you, there are many others to choose from. The concepts remain the same for the most part.

     

    And coding css without at least some basic use of sass or less is seriously undercutting yourself in larger projects. It's just too bad DW is not the greatest choice out there for SASS/LESS editing. Hopefully it will improve in the upcoming years.

     

    The more frameworks, the merrier I say!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2014 5:11 PM   in reply to Nancy O.

    Even if a lot of things are called frameworks, that doesn't make them similar. Javascript frameworks and PHP frameworks are dissimilar, even if you take into account that they are working with different languages.

     

    Coders found that frameworks like ZEND didn't fit well for smaller-scale projects, thus the rise of frameworks like laravel (which I have not used).

     

    If yo want to ignore frameworks, go ahead. With PHP, a good framework will help you practice good coding methods.

     

    With javascript, a framework like jQuery makes simple a lot of work that would be harder to do with javascript alone.

     

    Personally, my brain can't handle too many systems, so I stick to ZEND tools and framework for PHP, and jQuery for javascript.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2014 6:17 PM   in reply to ottz0

    Which ones would you spend serious time to learn? I know it depends on what you want to do... but generally?

     

    As a matter of fact, none of them!!!!   You just pick up the basic skills as you go along when you need to otherwise make sure your HTML/CSS skills are up top scratch.  that is all you need to be an accomplished web developer.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2014 10:55 PM   in reply to mytaxsite.co.uk

    mytaxsite.co.uk wrote:

     

    Which ones would you spend serious time to learn? I know it depends on what you want to do... but generally?

     

    As a matter of fact, none of them!!!!   You just pick up the basic skills as you go along when you need to otherwise make sure your HTML/CSS skills are up top scratch.  that is all you need to be an accomplished web developer.

    I wish!!!

     

    Problem is that you will soon run out of puff. Imagine sending an e-mail, storing data, creating a blog, displaying a shopping cart and the list goes on. How far would you get with just HTML/CSS?

     

    For my current project I am looking at Bootstrap3/SASS for my markup/styling and YII2 for the heavy lifting. This will be intermingled with the Data Bindings suite from DMXZone for the presentation side.

     

    I have gone for Bootstrap over Foundation mainly because Bootstrap comes with YII2; I have gone for YII2 because it is the leanest and fastest of the PHP frameworks. Bootstrap normally comes with LESS but I think that SASS is by far the more superior.

     

    Please tell me that I am wrong in my choices. I am still open to suggestions.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2014 1:51 AM   in reply to ottz0

    I'm not sure you need to get too deep into any framework to build a good site. It depends what you are doing. Most examples I see around this forum require no framework.

     

    I can't stand frameworks when you actualy have little to no idea of what is happening so it makes it much more difficult to manage problems when they arise. They are full of redundant coding that the majority of time is unapplicable to the site you're building, making maintenace more difficult than it should be.

     

    It's a bit akin to allowing Wordpress to control your site. Great while its all going well. Completely clueless when it goes wrong or are asked to introduce some other element than you need to intigrate with it.

     

    If you use a framework then you should at least get into the code and try to understand how it works and what it does before relying heavily on it. Just to use one without any knowledge is like trying to perform heart surgery with a blindfold on.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2014 2:24 AM   in reply to ottz0

    Hi

     

    Frameworks have uses, but should never be relied upon to be future proof or as 'fix-all' solutions.

     

    If you do not require a framework or do not know if you do, then: Do not use one. This applied more so if you are using a javascript or combined javascript/css framework to create a responsive design that will work on smartphone and tablet devices.

     

    The latest research about the use of excessive css or using javascript has shown that this can drain the battery of these devices, (almost as badly as using Flash did) -

    http://programming.oreilly.com/2013/05/measuring-the-impact-of-web-pag e-structures-on-battery-usage-in-mobile-devices.html

     

    My advice to everyone would be - Don't use a framework or any 'off-the-shelf' solution, (inc. CMS) unless you know what you are doing.

     

    PZ

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 22, 2014 4:26 PM   in reply to pziecina

    In this discussion, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP frameworks are all lumped together under the term "frameworks" as if they share anything in common, so the advice given depends on which kind of framework the poster has experience with.

     

    PHP frameworks are of critical importance in situations where you have twelve (or 200) programmers working on the same project, and rigorous standards must be adhered to. They can also be useful for the individual programmer when working on a large project alone because they force one to use an organized object oriented MVP approach, which can save one's sanity six or twelve months into a project.

     

    PHP frameworks are a royal pain to adapt to. They are of no use to anyone who relies on DW dynamic tools, or to anyone working on projects that are not largely based on PHP.

     
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