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How to stop Lightroom from auto-adjusting RAW files

Feb 26, 2007 2:46 PM

Is there a way to stop Lightroom from automatically "fixing" my RAW files? When I first load them in they look perfect (like they do on the back of my camera), but then LR auto-adjusts them to make them dull and desaturated and not at all contrasty. Is there a way that I can set LR to not do anything to the files and let me decide what I want the original to look like?
 
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    Feb 26, 2007 3:34 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    LR does not auto-adjust anything on my raw files. Perhaps you set a preset in the library.
     
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    Feb 26, 2007 3:37 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Are you picking a develop preset when you import files?
     
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    Feb 26, 2007 3:46 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    I'm seeing the same thing... For the first second or so the RAW image is loading, it has different color and contrast. Then a second or so after the image is loaded, the color desaturates and/or contrast is lowered a bit. Its hard to tell exactly, but in most cases I've preferred the image before this auto modification.
     
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    Feb 26, 2007 4:11 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    I think what you are seeing initially is the jpeg that is embedded in the RAW file. These will have been created using in-camera settings. It takes a few seconds for LR to generate the RAW previews, these will most likely look flatter as they have had no in-camera processing applied.

    Steve
     
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    Feb 26, 2007 4:47 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    I don't think there is a JPG file embedded in a RAW file...
     
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    Feb 26, 2007 7:11 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    II- What is the main source of your images, and why do you believe there's no embedded jpeg?
     
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    Feb 26, 2007 7:28 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Hi Stacy,
    Welcome and all that.
    There is an embedded jpg in the RAW. The best thing to do is to create a look similar to what you saw and save it as a Develop Preset. Then choose this preset on Import on the bottom left of the Import panel. (Develop settings)
     
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    Feb 26, 2007 9:45 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    I wonder why LR displays the embedded JPg first, if that is in fact what we are seeing. It seems inefficient to preview the JPG then the RAW. I've never seen Bridge do this...
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 12:53 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Ive expirienced the same thing, (shooting canon 5D CR2 raw) my setting are not to have a jpg embedded in with the raw file.
    there's no problem fine tuning the picture after it changes but...
    could someone official reply to that post please, and explain what exactly happening in the process?
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 12:57 AM   in reply to (Imagine_Imagery)
    On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:45:02 -0800, Imagine_Imagery@adobeforums.com
    wrote:

    >I wonder why LR displays the embedded JPg first, if that is in fact what we are seeing.

    Since LR builds its own previews from the RAW data it takes a while to
    show the photo - unless the embedded JPEG from the camera [usually
    popping colours] is used as a proxy.

    If LR wouldn't do it this way every other user would wonder why LR
    does not show anything for half a minute, it would look like a frozen
    program.



    --
    Dierk (sometimes known as Evo2Me)
    [DH² Publishing]
    www.DH2Publishing.info
    Writing and Imaging
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 1:04 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    It may not be relevant, but check that the preset on import is 'zero'd' and not 'none'.

    I'm not sure if V1 has the same behaviour as B4.1 but in 4.1 'none' actually did something, 'zero'd' did not.

    And my images look different in LR to in camera and opened with other programs (pentax photobrowser).

    I don't have a develop preset as I find each image will need different adjustments.
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 1:44 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    I believe that all raw files have an embedded jpeg preview, the one that the camera shows on the back of the viewfinder. In order for LR to get the same result you need to set up a develop preset to match the camera settings as close as possible. If you use different settings while shooting then LR won't be able to tell from teh raw file and it would be best to import them with no preset and then adjust to the relevant presets afterwards.
    Andrew
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 2:33 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    As far as I know, most coneverters show the embedded jpeg first while the RAW previews are being created. RSP and C1 certainly do. Some may do it faster or slower than others. C1 is pretty fast, while RSP and LR seem a little slower.

    Steve
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 3:14 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 6:17 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    "If LR wouldn't do it this way every other user would wonder why LR
    does not show anything for half a minute, it would look like a frozen
    program."

    Dierk, the "Loading" dialog tells us that LR is working. But far more importantly, we do not need the system to be wasting resources displaying a JPG that we don't need while waiting for the RAW image to display.
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 7:13 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    II- How many images are you dealing with, and what's their source?
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 9:42 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    "II- How many images are you dealing with, and what's their source?"

    300 to 1200 images per import/shoot, mostly RAW files from my Canon 5D. I also sometimes import JPGs from my partner's D2X.
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 9:49 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    II-

    O.K. I think you've learned that there's an embedded jpeg from your 5D, and that's what you see on first import before LR has built its own previews. You can make an import set of adjustments so you're seeing the LR previews look like the emedded jpgs.

    It's been a while since I've imported that many images from my 5D, but I'll get back to that in a while. Meantime, do you see progress bars rolling on import?
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 10:16 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Thanks. I noticed that the medium contrast preset is similar to the preview image. But, I do have a custom Picture Styles set in my camera and it is my understanding that for the LCD preview I will see a "picture syles" version on the file, I suppose the embedded JPG. And I also suppose that is what I'm seeing in LS.

    I wish someone from Adobe would confirm this. Do they come on these boards? And once again, I wish LR wouldn't waste resources displaying these embedded JPGs while loading my RAW shoots. The program is slow enough without this time/resource waster.

    And yes, I do see the import progress bar up near my identity plate during imports. Thanks for youre help.
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 10:43 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    You might benefit from turning off creating previews during Import, then select the folder and create them when you're not working in LR- or the opposite, giving plenty of time on import to create previews, but not woking in LR until the import is finished with all aspects.

    Occasionally I think I've seen Adobe devels. here, but it could have been on other boards. I believe most people would be more shocked if they saw nothing at all at first, so I doubt that aspect will be changed.
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 11:18 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    >I wish LR wouldn't waste resources displaying these embedded JPGs while loading my RAW shoots. The program is slow enough without this time/resource waster.

    Lightroom is not wasting resources displaying the embedded JPGs. Nevertheless, if you prefer not to see this thumbnail change appearance on import then choose Render Standard previews (see attached screenshot) in the import dialog. The downside is that the import process will take longer.
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 2:15 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Thanks Ian, that "Render Standard Previews" seemed to do the trick. However, I would argue the point that it doesn't take extra resources to display the embedded JPG first. Before choosing "Render Standard Previews", the JPG would be displayed first, then once I selected the file, it would have to render the second preview based on the RAW file. So of course it would take fewer resources to only render one preview rather than two. This is also assuming that one would look at a large (loupe) version of every photo, which I do. Thanks again for the tip.
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 4:45 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    I see the same problem and I'm using CR2 files without embedded JPEGs.
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 5:56 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Imagine Imagery said:

    " I've never seen Bridge do this... "

    Actually, Bridge always does this - it uses a 2 pass system just like LR. The first pass shows the embedded preview and the second creates the high quality preview. Just point Bridge at a new folder of images and watch the previews - you'll see what I mean.

    Jeff Engle said:

    " I see the same problem and I'm using CR2 files without embedded JPEGs. "

    What Canon model are you using? AFAIK, there's not a one of them that doesn't have an embedded JPEG preview.
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 7:36 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Is there any way to extract the embedded JPG from a RAW file? I just came across an instance from my shoot last night where the embedded JPG has better color than the RAW file, believe it or not. I see proper color temp in the preview, but when the RAW file comes up it is too hot, even at the lowest color temp setting...
     
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    Feb 27, 2007 7:39 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    I have seen a post with that I think ??
     
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    Feb 28, 2007 12:17 AM   in reply to (Imagine_Imagery)
    On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:36:18 -0800, Imagine_Imagery@adobeforums.com
    wrote:

    >Is there any way to extract the embedded JPG from a RAW file?

    For NEFs there's the Preview Extractor
    (http://drchung.new21.net/previewextractor), IDImager's RAW Extractor
    (http://www.idimager.com/freeware.htm) supports NEF, DNG, CR2 and PEF.
    Both are freeware.

    BreezeBrowser [Pro] (http://www.breezesys.com) also extracts embedded
    JPEGs from RAW files, although DNG seems not to be supported, while
    NEF is [as are Canon files, more or less by default].



    --
    Dierk (sometimes known as Evo2Me)
    [DH² Publishing]
    www.DH2Publishing.info
    Writing and Imaging
     
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    Feb 28, 2007 12:39 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Thank you Dierk.
     
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    Feb 28, 2007 1:10 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Thanks Dierk, it was Dr Chung that I had seen.
     
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    Feb 28, 2007 2:03 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Any JPEG preview that "looks right", and better than the RAW preview, it's always possible to render a JPEG from that RAW data that looks just the same, if not better. Possible, but not necessary better: The right "k" isn't the only thing.......
     
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    Feb 28, 2007 3:33 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    yes, i've seen the same - it's rather annoying to watch nice punchy out-of-the-camera image dissapearing agter that "loading" and you have to start "tuning" it again

    i understand, that LR is not able to read some settings that were set in-camera? i thought it was due to the fact that Nikon encrypts some of it's RAW data but Canon owners seems to reoprt the same issue. go figure...

    ps. zero'd seems to be the worst setting - it discards everything that camera set to that picture and the result is very gray and dull
     
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    Feb 28, 2007 4:50 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Tuule-

    As suggested elsewhere, you can make a preset for LR that'll duplicate your camera's JPEG settings- punch up contrast, saturation, sharpening if you like.

    When shooting RAW, there aren't many settings that get brought in- White balance is the major one; and exposure doesn't get changed by JPEG conversion in camera, afaik
     
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    Feb 28, 2007 5:39 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    It's not actually that easy to make a preset to match in camera processing as ACR really struggles with some colours, deep reds for example come out orangy.

    I shoot RAW + JPEG and the 5D colour develop setting I tweaked, looks like velvia and annoyingly, it can be very hard to get the RAW file to look as nice, if the difficult colours are present. ACR is simply awful on flames for example.

    Photomechanic can also extract JPEGs from RAW files. But be aware that these JPEGs are smaller than the RAW file [in pixel size].
     
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    Feb 28, 2007 10:23 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    Well, I didn't say it'd be
    b <<easy>>!

    I haven't shot RAW and JPEGs for over two years.
     
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    Feb 28, 2007 11:15 PM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    I totally understand where II is coming from. I too find it bothersome that in some images, the pre-processed preview is a more pleasing image than the unprocessed RAW. At the same time, it is the unprocessed nature of the RAW image that is the whole attraction and point to shooting RAW. An obvious workaround (if one is willing of course) is to shoot RAW+JPEG so as to either have the JPEG as a "target" reference or final image when suitable. And that is an option I used to employ until I got tired of dealing with the issues of essentially doubling the number of images I was working with.

    I do disagree with II's thought that the preview showing up is slowing down any processing of the RAW image. It would seem to me that the whole reason the preview is showing up is that it is a prerendered aspect of the file that pops up while the actual preview rendering is taking place. While I don't claim to have technical knowledge as to how this all works, I would think that LR is simply showing the initial rendering of what the RAW file is telling LR it looks like until LR can actually make it's OWN interpretation. Either way, the process is fast enough that it isn't a huge issue to me on my system. In fact, those images where I see a vast difference between the inital preview image and the LR rendered resolve no slower than the rest.

    It is interesting to know that there are applications/utilities out there that will extract that inital preview though. I thionk it would be very cool if LR made use of such a capability more directly as an option.

    Anyway, while the frequency of my use of LR so far pales in comparison to that of PS and Bridge, so far I can say that such discrepency between nice looking inital preview and less than so RAW is far less common than it is working with PS and Bridge CS2.
     
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    Mar 1, 2007 5:39 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    As someone else said, you can avoid the thumbnail changing from showing the camera-edited jpg to the unedited raw file by checking Render Standare Previews on import. Then it only shows the unedited file and doesn't upset you at what you have lost by using ACR in LR!

    If you have used Nikon sofware to edit your nefs, then you will probably have two embedded jpgs in your raw nef files, one small and one large one, both showing all your edits.

    If you don't like losing your camera/sofware-edits, then you simply have to use the camera-manufacturers software that understands those edits and then go into CS2. ACR in LR or CS2 willnot/cannot read those edits, so you have to start again with the unedited raw file.

    I've used Nikon Capture for some years, and if I now import those raw images into LR, they go back to the unedited versions, and I have to start again.

    If you want a program that does use the Nikon-jpgs for its previews and slideshows, then iViewMediaPro is the one to go for. The large embedded jpgs in nefs make excellent slideshows, showing all your camera settings and software edits.

    Bob Frost
     
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    Mar 1, 2007 11:29 AM   in reply to (Stacy_Reeves)
    jpmcw, what you say about being able to reconstruct the JPG preview from a RAW file makes total sense in theory, but I have a set of images that certainly challenge this theory. If you're up for a challenge, let me know and I'll email you the RAW file and JPG preview file to see if you are able to recreate it. Or anyone else is welcome to try. The photos are of the inside of a dinner tent that was lit base red, with multicolored spider web gobos on top of the red base, with black walls, furniture and accents. It was by far the most difficult room I've ever come across, from a lighting/photography perspective. But I thought I had it nailed when I saw my results on my LCD. And unfortunately my RAW files looked absolutely nothing like the LCD previews.

    Also, one possible reason that my RAW files are unuseable is this: I used an Expodisc to set color, and deleted the reference shot that I used to set the color temp on. I didn't think that this would play a part, but perhaps...

    So, challenge anyone? Email me at chris@imagineimagery.com
     
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