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PS, OS X and Norwegian Apple keyboard, shortcut problems

Feb 28, 2008 6:07 AM

I have searched high and low (forums, google etc) for a solution to my problem. I am becoming quite desperate and thought it wise to post. It might be an odd problem that only a few of us have, since it relies on a non-US keyboard. I might share my problem with more people than I realise.

My problem is Photoshop and keyboard shortcuts.

E.g. I am using Magentic Lasso Tool and want to increase or decrease the tolerance level or I am using a brush and I want to increase or decrease brush size. These commands rely on [,],{,} and similar keys. Especially when using Magentic Lasso Tool (I use that and brush a lot for masking) I need to increase and decrease contrast.

On a Norwegian Apple keyboard [,],{,} and similar keys are mapped with pressing the ALT + 8 and 9 or ALT + SHIFT 8 and 9 accordingly. Photoshop doesn't recognize ALT + or ALT + SHIFT modifiers. It just doesn't work and I can't access the shortcuts.

I can't use the mouse to navigate to Tolerance either, as with Magentic Lasso Tool it will create a path upwards in the canvas towards the toolbar and when I click the value box to change it will complete the current path to selection.

I thought I'd be smart and change the shortcut in Tools from [,] to ALT + 8 and 9, but Photoshop denies me this with the message "Opt+8 is an invalid shortcut. You can only use a single character for tool shortcuts."

I can map the keys to something else and sacrifice another important shortcut of course. This would just cause more problems down the line.

I know there are users or lurkers in this forum with a similar problem. Anyone up for giving me my sanity back?
 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2008 6:03 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Same problem here on a Dutch keyboard. Would be nice to hear an answer to this question.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2008 6:28 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Can you script your own keyboard shortcuts?

    Neil
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2008 9:26 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    I don't think that there IS an answer unfortunately.

    This question has been raised innumerable times by people using various European keyboards but no-one has ever come up with a solution to the problem.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2008 12:36 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    I think on the InDesign forum, someone found a way to make shortcut keys by manually editing some config file. This allowed more options than what are presented within the program interface. Maybe a similar trick can be employed with PS.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2008 12:56 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    > keys are mapped with pressing the ALT + 8 and 9 or ALT + SHIFT 8 and 9

    Since Macs don't have an Alt key, I presume you are using a Windows system. You may want to pose your question in the Windows Photoshop forum rather than here in the Mac PS forum.

    --Gene
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
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    Apr 3, 2008 1:01 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Eugene,

    Many Mac keyboards have "alt" in tiny letters on the upper left-hand corner of the Option key.
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
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    Apr 3, 2008 1:06 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Morten,

    If you want to try installing a custom software keyboard layout I made for typing Spanish, German, Dutch, Portuguese and French faster than with Apple's standard method, you might find the keys you want just to the right of the P-key. I've never tried it with a Norwegian keyboard.

    If it works for you, you could then try modifying your Norwegian keyboard layout in a similar fashion.

    Just a thought.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2008 1:29 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    >Many Mac keyboards have "alt" in tiny letters on the upper right-hand corner of the Option key.

    Son if a gun -- so they do! Thanks, Ramon.

    --Gene
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
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    Apr 3, 2008 1:36 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Edited my typo:

    Many Mac keyboards have "alt" in tiny letters on the upper left-hand corner of the Option key.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2008 3:55 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Hey guys, thanks. I hope Adobe can soon bring a solution to this issue.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2008 7:34 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Fullsize Mac keyboards have alt keys both at left and right. Printed "alt" on them.

    As for the problem of non US-keyboard layouts, there is no other solution as far as I know but to edit your shortcuts and assign other keys than the ones provided.

    I've fought for non-US-hardcoded shortcuts in Adobe apps for many years in many different fora and it has become better for some apps in the Suite but we are still not there. I've always run US English version of apps (including the OS) but has to use Swedish keyboard-layout (or won't be able to write either my name or mmy adress, not to mention my native toungue).

    I wish the developers would get it into their thinking some time that we are many users who use US English application-versions but are stuck with our native keyboard layouts. Editing shortcuts isn't always what you want to do as you normally lose those between versions and need to start all over again. And some shortcuts are hardcoded into the apps and cannot be changed no matter what.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2008 7:58 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Nini,
    >I've always run US English version of apps (including the OS) but has to use Swedish keyboard-layout (or won't be able to write either my name or mmy adress, not to mention my native toungue)

    For your umlauted "a", on a U.S. keyboard, it is easily set using Option-u followed by a: ä. Many other western European accents and letters are similarly easy to key -- albeit with multiple keystrokes. But it is not impossible, as you imply.

    Neil
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
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    Apr 5, 2008 8:14 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Neil,
    >easily set using Option-u followed by a: ä

    "Easily" my foot! Apple's dead-key combinations were a welcome development when they first appeared back in the days of Messy-Doze as they made typing so-called "special" characters a workable possibility; but they are remnants of the Pleistocene these days.

    You can easily re-map a software keyboard layout to eliminate the need for dead keys.

    Literally decades ago I used MacKeymeleon from Avenue Software to create my custom keyboard layouts, which I've been using since the MacPlus days through today's Tiger 10.4.11.

    Typing Option-a gets me ä in a single step, etc.

    As a matter of fact, even Windoze's US-International keyboard layout, part of Windows, makes the two-step Apple way mercifully a thing of the past.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2008 7:14 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Ramón,

    Since I do not do a lot of typesetting that requires accents, having to do a little finger exercise to get those characters is no big deal for me. (And certainly a lot easier than MS's old, bewildering and hard to remember alt+four digit method. If I had a lot of accented typesetting as you do, I would certainly find an easier way.

    My point to Nini was that her comment made it appear that it is not possible to extract accented letters from a U.S. keyboard.

    Neil
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 6, 2008 3:42 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Exactly. Bad translations and the lack of application-updates were the main reasons I originally switched to US English versions years and versions ago. Unfortunately I need to use Swedish localized versions at work so I still see the lousy translations.

    For those of you who are only using English and living in English speaking countries, note that the problem is that keyboards that come with the machines are localized to your area and if you change keyboard layout the layout of the keys do not match what is under them. Does make it hard to work unles you glue something to the keys or create an overlay (remember those?) for the keyboard. That means that for isntance you cannot reach the tilde key (just an example, there are other ones too) but by using yet other keys to get there. That's what breaks the shortcut.

    Editing keyboard shortcuts in each and every version of the applications is usally also not an option (and in some apps those shortcuts - if they can be called shortcuts when they contain around 4 keys...) as the shortcuts do not even reside in a selfcontained file that you can move to other machines, but is embedded into other settings. Or hardcoded into the application an unreachable. And not portable between versions.

    Changing keyboard layout in Internationl is not an option either.

    The only application that is semi-smart is actually Bridge where you can set your keyboard prefs to another keyboard layout than the one you use for the application itself (Bridge is multi-lingual like OS X) and then the shortcuts follow with that setting. On the other hand you cannot edit shortcuts in Bridge. Bridge is also a limited application when it comes to features and shortcuts which makes this esier from an engeneering view I would guess. The other Adobe apps are far more complex in that regard (and if a short-cut would be changed in favour of the international users in for instance Illustrator, you would hear a roar you wouldn't believe from those Illustrator users....those are a conservative bunch).

    The only solution that would be a good one would be if there would be no hardcoded shortcuts at all that are tied to one keyboard layout only, the US English one, but would use keys that can be used regardless of keyboard layout used at user end. I've fought for this for many years but so far only with limited success.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2008 7:32 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Hi

    I did a search on short cuts, keyboard layout, in Photoshop CS3 and this link came up:
    http://www.webdesignerwall.com/tutorials/photoshop-secret-shortcuts/co mment-page-18/

    The last tip is about creating ones own short cuts.

    "Finally, if you want to check or set your own custom shortcuts, press Cmd + Opt + Shift + K will bring up the Keyboard Shortcuts panel."

    For the Mac, but it is probably something similar for the PC.

    Have a great day!

    Paal Joachim
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2008 1:39 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    That's an entirely different matter.
    The forumdiscussion is not about being able to create your own shortcuts (I've always known how to do that and so does the original poster in the forum).

    The forum discussion is about being able NOT to have to remap the shortcuts as soon as there is an update and that when you use an English version of an application but are stuck with a Swedish or Norwegian (or whatever) keyboard and need to use that keyboard layout, then you are locked out of a lot of shortcuts because they are done only for the US English keyboard layouts and only work if you use such a keyboard layout. And even worse, some are hardwired into the application and cannot be changed to something else. Which means if you are not using an English keyboard layout you are unable to use those shortcuts and alos unable to create another shortcut for that function.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2008 4:51 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    This has reportedly been a major problem for many people with European keyboards.

    Particularly troublesome is the inability to replace the use of the Tilde and square bracket keyboard shortcuts with different ones.

    If you haven't already posted a "Features Request" for a remedy for this, perhaps you should?
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
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    Apr 13, 2008 8:35 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Nini,

    Is there a key combo for increasing/decreasing the size of the brush in a Swedish version of Photoshop when you use a Swedish keyboard?

    I'm just curious about possibly re-mapping a custom software keyboard layout to accomplish the same with a standard US keyboard.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2008 10:02 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    There is also a problem with the German Photoshop CS3 version and the German keyboard layout. I can't use "ä" or "ü" or "ö". "ö" is the standard key for scaling down the brush size.

    Would be nice if this bug could be fixed.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 14, 2008 1:14 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    I wouldn't call it a bug as much as the lack of a feature.

    I had to work with German keyboards for years.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 14, 2008 9:16 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Ramón,
    I normally don't use Swedish software except at work where we are still in CS2...(and Tiger)(except for me and a chosen few). My CS3 at work is US English by choice (ahppened to have an extra private license) still as I prefer that and am used to it.

    The keycombo in CS2 for increasing/decreasing the brush size is å for decreasing, and ¨ for increasing brushsize. None of the English shortcuts for tools/brush can be used on a Swedish keyboard layout, except the one for next and previous brush and last as they require additional keys.

    Of course you can remap the shortcuts but then you would have to do that over and over and over again with each whole version update. I gave that up somewhere around Photoshop 3 or something and reverted to using the mouse instead of shortcuts (another reason is that I use too many applications and am unable to remember all those shortcuts where they are nto the same in all apps). It is just too much work to go through all these non-functioning shortcuts as you cannot move them between versions either. It is the same problem in Illustrator and partly in InDesign (InDesign is actually better) and in Bridge you can actually choose your keyboard layout (including shortcuts) independently of the language of the application. THAT is good.

    Ann, I've had (and have) direct access to the right people for years so I think they've heard me (and to some extent gone tired of hearing it). I've managed partly for InDesign (but not fully) and I have the impression that the Bridge people have listened. It's one of my pet hangups that I keep repeating version after version when I have an opportunity... ;)
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
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    Apr 14, 2008 4:40 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Morten,
    >wonder if the Bridge team works on another planet than the Photoshop team

    My unconfirmed but strong suspicion is that they are on two different continents.

    If true, that's not necessarily a good thing, incidentally.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 20, 2008 1:46 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    @John Joslin: I think it is in fact a bug that has to do with Leopard.
    @Feerix, do you run Leopard by any chance? I run
    - Macbook Pro
    - Mac OS 10.5.2
    - Photoshop CS3 10.0.1
    - Swedish keyboard layout
    I can't use å, ä, ö or ¨ for increasing/decreasing the brush size. I can set them in the settings, but nothing happens when I press the keys and have the brush selected.

    On a Powermac G5 with Mac OS 10.4.11 and the same version of Photoshop, those keys work fine.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2008 2:07 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    >I can't use å, ä, ö or ¨ for increasing/decreasing the brush size. I can set them in the >settings, but nothing happens when I press the keys and have the brush selected.

    >On a Powermac G5 with Mac OS 10.4.11 and the same version of Photoshop, those keys >work fine.

    Yeah, exactly what people in our retouch department are complaining about now when we switched to Leopard. It worked to remap the keys in Photoshop CS3 when running Tiger, but now - even if the remapping itself seems to work in Keyboard Shortcuts - nothing happens to the brush size when the keys are pressed!

    We have:
    - Mac Pro
    - Mac OS X 10.5.4
    - Photoshop CS3 10.0.1
    - Swedish keyboard layout

    While it would be great to have a more unified way for shortcuts on non English keyboards, at least give us back the functionality that was in Tiger, please.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2008 4:27 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Hi all of you. I have the same problem and I have a Faroese keyboard. And I have struggled to find a solution so I can use the brush-shortcut on the keyboard - to de- or increase the brush size.. In my Faroese keyboard it is not possible - but if I go the system preference panel and go to "international" and then push "english" up above faroese, so "english" is on top (could be swedish or norwegian), then my keyboard is english! And the brush size shortcuts in Photoshop work!! And I can now program my Wacom touchstrip to regulate the brushsize..
    Maybe you all knew this - but i didn't!
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 7, 2008 5:01 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    It would be great if it were possible to use my Swedish keyboard complete with access to the ö, ä, å keys and still be able to perform the basic short-cuts.
    Not being able to adjust brush sizes with keyboard short-cuts is very frustrating and time wasting. I wonder what the response would be like if you couldn't perform this simple shortcut on an english keyboard. Yup, that's what I thought.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 9, 2008 4:29 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Ramón,

    I am having the same issues. I have a Apple keyboard in Spanish and I can´t figure out how to even map my Wacom tablet. I had it maped before with a US keyboard but now I can fifure out how to increase or decrease [] {} brush sizes and/or strengths?

    I read you post 4 or 5 I believe but did not understand it?

    I am running OS X 10.5.5 and CS 3 / 4

    Regards.
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
    11,247 posts
    Jul 27, 2006
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    Nov 9, 2008 4:43 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Hola José:

    My post #5 says:

    Many Mac keyboards have "alt" in tiny letters on the upper left-hand corner of the Option key.


    Here's what it means:
    Muchos teclados del Mac llevan las letras "alt" impresas en la esquina superior izquierda de la tecla de Opción.

    Con ello me refería al mensaje anterior al mío de uno que comentaba que "los Macs no tienen tecla de alt". Eso es todo.

    I was just referencing a previous message posted by some guy who said that Macs don't have an "alt" key. That's all.
     
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    Nov 9, 2008 4:57 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Hello Ramón,

    Thank you for your feedback. I thought I must have missed something on the light that I could not see a resolution in your message, glad (and sorry) that I did not miss something there. And I appreciate your time in clearing that up :)

    Anyways, is there a way to resolve an English version (todo el SW que uso es en Ingles ya que es my lengua materna) although I am using a Spanish keyboard?

    I just installed CS 4 and blew away all my preferences when I meticulously de installed CS 2 and 3... Now I can´t print nor get my settings back on my Wacom?

    Gracias,

    Jose
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 9, 2008 5:56 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Two Keyboards?

    Why not.

    One in a tray the other on top of the desk.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 10, 2008 12:16 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Brilliant!
    Adjust your brush size with the shortcuts on your english keyboard and then quickly plugin the other keyboard to type in yout text. Why didn't I think of it sooner!
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
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    Nov 10, 2008 5:12 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Both keyboards can be plugged in simultaneously.
     
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    Nov 10, 2008 6:45 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Is it possible to have too keyboards plugged in simultaneously with each set to a different output language?
     
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    Nov 10, 2008 7:36 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    I do not think it matters they are different keyboards that is all I think there is to it.

    But I think it is possible.
     
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    Nov 10, 2008 8:09 AM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    Hi Wade
    I was under the impression that it was necessary to select the correct country and keyboard type from System Preferences, International, Input Menu, so that the keyboard layout and language functions operated properly. I may well have this wrong, but if so does anyone out there know what is the purpose of the 'Input Menu'
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
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    Nov 10, 2008 4:04 PM   in reply to (Morten_Zetlitz)
    You are correct, Barkerjohn.

    While the two keyboards can remain physically connected at the same time, it will be necessary to switch the Input Method when you switch keyboards. That's still better tan having to additionally physically unplug one keyboard and then plug in another one.
     
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