I found a link: http://shutterbug.com/digital_help/0209digitalhelp/
Again, this does not seem like the right solution to this issue.
So are you implying that no Epson drivers work correctly with PSCS4 and Lightroom?
I don't believe that is the case? Don't some driver work correctly?
If some Epson drivers work correctly then they know how to make the rest work correctly?
The only experience (what no spell checker now in the new forums) with Epson I have is with the 9600. No the latest driver for the 9600 does not work correctly.
The latest drivers from Canon for the iPF series drivers work correctly.
Have you done the reinstall, make sure it is the default printer (checking CUPS interface), make sure it is registered in ColorSync thing?
I am not implying anything. I have installed all the latest firmware and driver updates from Epson for the Stylus Pro 3800 and I am still experiencing the dark prints problem. As you can probably tell, I am pretty frustrated with this.
I am curious about this question: "Have you done the reinstall, make sure it is the default printer (checking CUPS interface), make sure it is registered in ColorSync thing?"
I have reinstalled the driver for the SP3800, but I do not know what you are referring to about registering it in ColorSync. Have I missed something in this long thread?
PS: I would still love to hear from an Adobe Engineer . . . .
>I am curious about this question: "Have you done the reinstall, make sure it is the default printer (checking CUPS interface), make sure it is registered in ColorSync thing?"
CUPS interface is http://127.0.0.1:631/printers The preference pane does not always set the default printer correctly.
In the ColorSync Utility (.../Application/Utilities) does the printer show up in devices? And are the profile registered to the media settings?
If the driver is not truly updated for Leopard you can always use the ColorSync workaround.
As for implying I should have made it more of a point that I was refering to Epson, not you.
WasDYP, Thanks for your response. I hope I did not come across as snarky, as I did not mean to. I merely meant that I was not implying anything--instead, I was outright stating that the driver for the 3800 is not working right with my set up. Part of my frustration with this issue is that I cannot tell if it is my fault, Adobe's fault, Epson's fault or Apple's fault that it is not working right.
I think I have checked the CUPS interface. I will do it again. I will also check the colorsync app to make sure that my SP3800 is listed there.
I assume that Adobe monitors these forums as a way of keeping in touch with their installed base?
Please see my posts from today. I spoke with Epson today and their TS guy claims that they are done releasing a driver for the Stylus Pro 3800 to address the OS 10.5 changes.
Can you call their engineers and speak with them directly?
grayscapes (fka aviduser)
Peter, p_d_f, pfigen, (or whoever the forums have forced you into these days ...)
Did you ever perform the Delta-E comparison between printer default/non-default you mentioned a few weeks ago?
If so, I'm very interested in the results - I have an exhibition coming up in a couple of months and I'm about to take delivery of a new Epson 3800. I'd like to come up to speed as painlessly as possible - many prints need to be cranked out.
Thanks for any insight ...
Well I just fired up my iMAC with OS X 10.5.6 and tried to print using ABW on an Epson 3800: Prints come out too dark. (This is on Epson paper using their profile for it.) After reading this thread, it sounds like (1) it is still an open issue and (2) Epson doesn't think it is their problem. Correct? Are Adobe and Epson still talking to each other about it?
Also, is it true that the "ColorSync utility workaround" can be used to sidestep this issue?
As somebody else on this thread said: This is way more aggravating than wet darkroom printing ever was!
In case you might have missed it, here is the post on working with ABW in the Epson driver.
I am not sure the CU workaround works with ABW but it might be worth a try. It does certainly work with color.
I did see that one, and made a note to try it, but in that same post Eric says:
"However, the catch is that -- as noted in this thread -- there is currently a glitch, which we (Adobe + Apple + Epson) are investigating. One of the symptoms of that glitch is that the above suggested workflow does not work on Leopard."
So that makes me think it's not going to work on my setup.
That's not too encouraging. It reminds me of the nonsense I have to deal with at work whenever a problem involves more than one vendor. We get them fixed eventually, though. If the driver coding is done in Japan, there could be a language-related communication issue as well.
Has Epson acknowledged that there is a problem?
What is a concise description of what the driver is doing wrong, from a design standpoint, that results in dark prints?
Does Epson know who to contact at Adobe or Apple to discuss it?
Having just spent over $3K so that I could make B/W prints, and now find I can't, I'm happy to help kick chairs over there. The more facts
I can bring to bear, the better chance of getting somebody's attention. Thanks.
Having just spent over $3K so that I could make B/W prints, and now find I can't, I'm happy to help kick chairs over there. The more facts
I believe Epson most recent printer drivers work correctly in Leopard and CS4. So if that is the case then they know how to do in correctly. The question is do they want to.
Having just spent for the printer I would return it if they do not want to support the latest software.
For B/W I would try the iPF Canons as their drivers work correctly with Leopard and CS4 and they have a Plugin for printing from PS. And I here tell they print fantastic B/W and never a nozzle clog. And less than 3K too.
Description: in ABW mode, Epson's driver ignores the profile that comes with the image data, and assumes a fixed profile.
Yes, Epson knows who to contact at Apple and Adobe. Yes, we've talked about it.
But I don't think the engineers responsible have any idea what ICC profiles ARE.
Have you made sure the 3800 is the default printer in OSX's print preferences? I believe that is a key.
I'm using a CS4, 10.5.6, and a brand new 3800 and my prints (both color and ABW), are coming out great. I'm printing with Epson's UltraSmooth Fine Art paper using the canned profile for color and the ABW profile from Eric's site. I haven't done a lot of printing yet, but I haven't experienced the "dark print" problem.
When I look into System Preferences, the printer is shown as "Default, Idle". I would assume that means that it is the default printer, let me know
if that is not correct. Congratulations on the good prints. I will try Eric's ABW profile, thanks.
As an experiment, I loaded the latest Epson drivers onto my Windows XP laptop. Using the built-in profile for Epson Premium Glossy, I find that with the same printer options set, a B/W file that prints too dark from the Mac prints fine from the IBM. This particular image had the "canvas" resized in PS to create a white border. On the print from the IBM, that border merges with the white border created by the printer driver. On the MAC, the white border that is part of the image prints as what you might call a "zone VIII gray", making quite a contrast with the white of the paper. No wonder prints from the MAC look dark. Maybe this clue will help Epson realize there is a problem.
Let me restate this. What is happening with drivers that are not correct for Leopard, when in PSCS4 and LR2 application managed color is selected instead of turning off color management in the driver ColorSync is selected. With some drivers you may not be able to tell this from the driver settings. With Canon drivers (before they were corrected) you could tell if ColorSync was select or No Correction. This is why the ColorSync Utility workaround would work when the same profile that was chosen in PS was pointed point to the (same as chosen in the driver) media in the ColorSync Utility. The principle here is that if it is going to double profile, do it with the same profile both places so that nothing gets changed.
Now how any of this applies to ABW I do not know as I have not tested that. But, this is what is happening with the normal color print stream where drivers are not correct for the print path as chosen by LR and PS in Leopard.
Found something interesting as far as this goes.. When I upgraded all my lab computers to CS4, that's when the dark printing/ no color management problem started. After a lot of trial and error, I decided to start from scratch, do a clean install of the OS, install CS3, and CS4, and document each step. What I found out was that a print accounting software that we use to charge for prints is the culprit. As soon as I uninstalled this software, all my prints done in CS4 were identical to the ones in CS3. This software activtes as soon as a print job is sent and somehow is interfering with the way CS4 is handling the default printer. Though this dosen't apply to most users here, thought I might share this information.
All computes are G4/G5 PPC Macs running Mac OSX Tiger 10.4.11
Printers are Epson 2400's and 3800's
The print accounting software is called Checkbox by X2 print accounting.
There has been a number people mention these issues and what printer was set as default. But I wonder if this is a 10.4.x issue and the 10.5.x issue is something different. I have also noted that sometime setting the default printer in "Printers and Faxes" does not take. In that case one can usually set
the default printer in the CUPS interface. http://127.0.0.1:631/printers
I've tried a 10.5x configuration as well, with the same results. I also tried setting the printer in the CUPS interface but did not work. As soon as I uninstalled Checkbox, everything was fine. I'm going to test out another company's print accounting software and see if will work in CS4.
Interesting, when I testing the default printer setting I could not find any relationship. There must be more than one problem causing this.
With the Canon drivers you could tell if the driver was defaulting to No Correction or to ColorSync. At this point the Canon drivers have been fixed. At least for the iPF series. The Canon DPP software still forces the driver to ColorSync though even though PS and LR do not.
It still would be interesting to know what the Adobe engineers found in LR 2.3RC that cause the default to ColorSync but was then fixed in the 2.3 final release.
For those with this double profiling problem, and those of you that don't have this problem.
Have you noticed that Epson driver pages now list Epson Common Driver Updater. Have you installed this and has it made any difference with the dark etc. prints.
Don't assume this is limited ot MAC! Here in Windows Vista 64-bit land with LR2.3 and PS CS4 and an Epson 4880 I can report:
Monitors calibrated, papers profiled.
LR nearly gets is right but you have to brighten by about 10% on final print to get what you see on screen. Colors are correct when brightened.
PS gets it so horribly wrong I give up. Really dark and I'm not wasting paper and ink to find out the fix. I'll send the job back to LR for printing.
What I do find interesting (as others have observed) is that the UK site seems to have newer drivers, newer firmware for the printers compared to USA. Not that the 6.60 fixed the dark prints!
If you get prompted by the UK site for a Post Code (Zip Code):
I too have had the same issues...please review my information and see if anything else clicks.
I am using Mac Pro Leopard 10.5.7 with CS4 and LR 2.3
I have an Epson 3800 and Epson 7900 using custom profiles from both Cathy's and Xrite i1Xtreme. I can make good prints dead on with profiled monitor with the 7900 but when printing to the 3800 prints are unacceptable as they are 2 or 3 stops to dark. I use no color management and results are the same with PSCS4 and LR on two different brands of paper. The issue is obviously an Epson problem...if I can print fine to the 7900 but not to the 3800 and all else is the same it must point to Epson. Oh I should mention that prior to getting my Mac i was able to produce good prints with a PC (XP Pro) and the 3800 so further proves it is an Epson "Mac" driver issues specific to the 3800.
…so further proves it is an Epson "Mac" driver issues specific to the 3800…
…and most likely tied to the Epson driver under Leopard.
Epson recently posted "Common Driver Updaters" for most printers. Have you checked to see if there's such a recent Common Updater for that printer?
Oh I should mention that prior to getting my Mac i was able to produce good prints with a PC (XP Pro) and the 3800 so further proves it is an Epson "Mac" driver issues specific to the 3800.
You could try installing the Epson Common Driver Updater although post #127 indicates it did not help with this problem.
Have you tried printing with the 3800 set as default?
Looks like your only option is the use the ColorSync workaround.
I spent some time experimenting this weekend and have come up with a method of printing in Advanced B/W mode that seems to more or less work properly. By "work properly", I mean that the prints match the appearance of the display fairly closely-- close enough to be usable. My setup is:
IMac running Mac OS 10.5.6
Epson 3800 printer
Image source: Epson 750 scan from B/W film, 16-bit, gray gamma 2.2 profile
Latest software updates installed everywhere.
Steps followed are:
1. Edit image in CS4 with View-> Proof setup -> Custom set to the paper I plan to use (I have tested with Epson's PGPP profile and Crane's profile for
Museo Silver Rag and gotten a good match in both cases)
2. Create a flattened TIFF and resize at 360 dpi. The gray gamma 2.2 profile is still embedded in the file at this point.
3. Prior to printing, select "Do not color manage this document" in the Edit -> Assign Profile menu. This causes the image on the screen
to appear flat and light.
4. In the Epson driver, select Advanced B/W mode and "Printer manages colors". In the Advanced Color setting, select "Normal" instead of "Darker"
(I don't have the Mac in front of me now so some of this terminology might be a little off.)
I hope this is helpful if anyone is still struggling with this problem.
I have recently moved to MacPro and Photoshop CS4 and have the same problem you recite. I have contacted Epson support, and I had the impression that they had experienced a problem with CS4 and Epson (my printer is the Epson Stylus Pro 4000) printers relative to the existing canned ICC profiles. I do not know if new profiles will be forthcoming. There was a suggestion that this same problem had occurred when CS3 first came out, and that Adobe came out with a fix in a driver update. I do not know whether this is true, but I have tried every possible fix for this printing issue without solution.
At this point, Apple and Adobe are sure that the problem lies with Epson (and only certain versions of their drivers).
Epson has been notified, and given a lot of evidence that the problem is in their drivers.
Ttry the workarounds suggested until Epson fixes their drivers. Of course, letting Epson know that you don't like their current driver bugs might help.
I am using the R1900 and this is what I found that works and might works for me
Photoshop managers printing
with Adobe RGB 1998 as the profile same as the document which is Adobe RGB 1998
and this is imprtant in the Epson print dialog I choose Color Settings>Color Controls>Adpbe RGB 1998.
Call me crazy but I don't see why you would profile an image and not make cerrtain you stick with it all the way.
Any way it works extremely well.
You will like it.
But did Adobe learn something useful from LR2.3RC that brought the
double profiling problem back with drivers that worked correctly in
PSCS4 and LR2.2 and the final release of LR2.3?
Yeah, we made it match the code in Photoshop more closely and avoid some Cocoa printer driver issues in the OS.
Wade, if someone could verify to me that one of the moderate priced
photo printers had canned profiles that were up to date with OSX 5.7
and with CS4 and Lightroom 2 to render accurate colors and brightness,
I would probably purchase the printer shortly. If there is a basic
issue in CS4 affecting printers generally, that may not be an answer.
Obviously, this is a huge issue for photographers printing their own
images for sale.
The best rendering I can achieve using CS4 with the OSX (5.7) is to use the "automatic" setting while having the printer do the color management. It also helps slightly to choose a gamma of 1.5 under the automatic setting. Yes, I do have my monitor fully profiled. It is strange, in that with my PC and earlier versions of Photoshop, the color was very accurate. The Colorsync rendering under the "Custom" setting is the next best. By far the worst rendering is using Photoshop to apply the canned ICC printer profiles provided by Epson.
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