Originally posted by Lundberg02:

"The Dancing Wu Li Masters" by Fridtjof Capra is an attempt to meld eastern mysticism with outdated modern physics. It is nonsense written by a lunatic."

It was by Gary Zukav, Lundberg...and I thought it was pretty brilliant. Which leads me to the questions....Have you actiually read it, or are you confusing it with Frijtof's "The Tao of Physics?" Which part of his work has lead you to such a dismissive tone about it? You don't cotton to Eastern Religion (or religion in general), you're being too critical of the science, which, by today's standards (The D.W-L M was written in '79) is a bit outdated, of course? You can't grasp the connections Zukav was making between the physics and religious experience? Zukav wasn't so much trying to meld the two seemingly disparate ideas as he was pointing the way toward that possibility. Perhaps you of too literate a mind to let go to the joyfulsness that can come with the free conjecture that precipitates and infuses many of modern physic's ideas. Most theorists in physics gain their insights, and will freely admit, by taking the pure science they already know and allow it to percolate and synthesize on congnitive levels that are outside of and parallel to the thought processes they use to bake a loaf of bread. Einstein explained a similar idea, as does Hawking.

Capra wrote "The Tao of Physics" which took a considerably different tenor than Zukav's "The Dancing Wu-Li Masters."

I'll admit that Zukav comes off as a bit of a flake lately, but that book was solid, and well-written, and went much further than any widely sanctified religious book (see: The Bible, The Koran, The Torah, The Bhagavad Gita, et al) in explaining to non-believers what all the hubbub is about.

Carl (viol8tion)...I'm surprised you didn't chime in on this.....

Ready..GO!!!!

> Ready..GO!!!!

I was out partying from 5PM yesterday until way toooo late. I am not in
a pretty mood this morning, and I read that post, well I responded with
the only appropriate response to his post directly, then finished
reading the thread.

The Dancing WuLi Masters is the best book that explains quantum physics
in a manner that is understandable to the layman, that I have ever read.
As far as I know, none of the theories that Zukov in his own twisted
way expounds upon has been disproven. The book is all accepted scientic
theory (when it was written) and proven principals. Zukov does have
some flaky ideas, but in the WuLi Masters they take a back seat to the
science. And any reasonably intelligenmt person can come to their own
conclusions about the religious part.

Nothing, to me, is more flaky than teachiung about a god that comes to
earth and dies and comes back to life and ascends up to a heaven (in
3-dimensions?) and is now foing to give eternal life to all of his
children that refuse to use the minds he supposedly gave them and
believe in something that cannot ever be proven and that flies in the
face of logic; and who is going to eternally punish his children who use
the minds he supposedly gave them to figure out "hey, this doesn't make
sense" .. but I will not expound any further on that as it is sure to
create controversy.

I have Capra's The Web of Life, and this is one that I have never been
able to get into. I got to chapter 3, and it still sits on my shelf, so
I can neither recommend nor comment on it.

Oh.. and a list of some of the other books on my shelf:
The entire works of Voltaire - 26 volumes
The Complete works of Shakespeare
The Unabridged Edgar Allen Poe
The Mind of God - Paul Davies
The Holographic Universe - Michael Talbot (this one is really out there)
Star Wave - Fred Alan Wolf
The End of Science - John Horgan
Wholeness and the Implicate Order - David Bohm
The Last Three Minutes - Paul Davies
The Origin of the Universe - John D. Barrow
The Origin of Mankind - Richard Leakey

Thoreau, Plato, Rollo May, RD Laing, William Blake...everything by
Tolkien, everything by CS Lewis... Calvin and Hobbes... oh and 8
different versions of the Bilble, the book of Mormon, the Koran, Strongs
exhaustive concordance which tells you where the words are in the bible
and then gives you the greek, hebrew or aramaic word it was translated
from. So my interests are varied, and I would prefer to have a wide
world view and at least a nominal understanding of all things rather
than be narrow minded self-righteous idiot that waltzes into a
conversation and makes disparaging remarks in order to elevate his own
ego and cover up his own feeling of inadequacy.

But I digress.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Beer: helping white guys dance since 1864.

http://www.wuli.com

I liked (emensely actually) The Tao of Pooh and The Te of Piglet! Very deceptive for their simplicity. Very profound thoughts hidden in such a simple bear.

dave

>So my interests are varied, and I would prefer to have a wide
world view and at least a nominal understanding of all things rather
than be narrow minded self-righteous idiot that waltzes into a
conversation and makes disparaging remarks in order to elevate his own
ego and cover up his own feeling of inadequacy.

Wow! Right on, Dave! ;-)

"A Confederacy of Dunces" John Kennedy Toole

ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC!

John

"Listen, little man!"
-Wilhelm Reich

A guy that really stirred the pot.

Best book the first time I read it " Letters from the Earth", Mark Twain.

Shocked and delighted me !

Dr. Seuss's Yertle the Turtle, The Big Brag, and the one with the cats tails (I don't recall the title).

> Why do people always want to believe the least likely possibilty?

Where did I say I believed what was in the books, you moron?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Trouble With the Gene Pool Is That There is No Lifeguard.

http://www.wuli.com

> Gee, I thought if it was in a book or on TV or in the movies it had to be true. Isn't that, like, a law or something?

Dave, you're right! If you read it in a magazine or newspaper, or in a
book, if you saw it on TV, or on the internet, then you obviously must
believe it.

I try to keep my horizons broad by reading a lot, from fiction to
non-fiction, from liberal political mags to right-wing political mags,
from mainstream religious books such as the bible to the lost gospels,
from eastern mysticism to Ayn Rand. And guess what, I am intelligent
enough to glean truths from any of them, and to toss the garbage. In
other words, when eating fish, one spits out the bones!

I would not recommend weak minded individual pursue this course of
action for fear that they might unwillingly believe some nonsense and
become brainwashed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Trouble With the Gene Pool Is That There is No Lifeguard.

http://www.wuli.com

In my car presently I have hard rock (Zep, AC/DC) and zydeco/cajun
(Buckwheat Zydeco, Sonny Landreth, Beausoleil) and blues (Blind Lemon
Jefferson, BB King, Rob't Johnson). In my collection at home I have
classical, I love Bach. I have Jazz, don't care for acid jazz so much
as I like Miles Davis & John Coltrane. I love swing, have a lot (2
words) Benny Goodman. Sinatra is my favorite. For rock I have eclectic
taste, such as Morphine, Radiohead, Nick Cave. At work on my rack I have
Days of the New, War, Primus, Nick Cave and the Bad seeds, Blues
Traveller, John Mayall, BB King, 3 Doors Down, Collective Soul, Stray
Cats, the Sundays, North Mississippi All Stars, Zappa, The Residents,
The Jolly Boys.

'nuff said!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific.
www.wuli.com

How come you haven't mentioned the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan?!? I'm suprised, Dave!

Bonfire of the Vanities was brilliant but the film was rubbish, moronic film maker thought it was a comedy .. yes to Aldous Huxley and George Orwell, plus Orwell's other work and especially his essays, plenty of food for thought there... Steven King but horror/fantasy only, stuff like Geralds' game I just found boring and I thought Green Mile was patronising and stereotypical ...

lots of easy-going crime stuff like Patricia Cornwell ... No Logo ... Stupid White Men .... re-read some Dickens when I have plenty of time, very dense, much of it funny, some just too sentimental ... still re-read Hitchhiker's from time to time, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, needs revisiting ... Zadie Smith's White Teeth was interesting, different ... to be honest, at the moment, lots of manuals and how-to books / javascript tutorials as I grapple with web-stuff I'm working on, plus newspapers (Guardian, Observer, Socialist Worker when I can get it), don't seem to have time to fit books in much lately (so how come I've got time to hang out in forums .... :) .. agree with the religion as superstition comments but don't want to get into that ...

"Somewhere a Roscoe..."

>No I'm serious! :) Ever read Tao of Pooh and Te of Piglet? You don't need to be "serious" to impart wisdom. Swimming pools are an analyogy for life.

Yes, I've read those Dave, and I agree with you on the pool thing! ;-)

A very Zen sort of thing, cleaning the pool! :-)

Very much! I especially liked the intro in the Pooh book where the author gets impatient with all of pooh's questions and interuptions, and finally explodes, telling Pooh it was a book about how to "remain calm and composed in any situation" (or something like that) to which Pooh calmly responds, "Have you read it yet?" I burst out laughing at that! ;-)

Yeah, I forgot about that, Dave. I should re-read those books. It's been something like 15 years since I did! Ouch!