I will do that one of these days. I do not doubt your script will provide superior results. But right now Im buried. Writing a book with harsh deadlines, finishing some of my own studio jobs, my basement needs cleaned, and Im out of yoodles.
I'm filming in DVCPRO 720p (HVX200) and trying to burn a SD DVD out of Encore that will look good on an interlaced t.v. I've tried encoding (out of Premiere A.M.E.) mpegs in progressive, and interlaced, upper, and lower fields first, best quality. I can't make it look anything but bad on the t.v
As soon as the camera moves or anything in the picture moves I get severe jagged edges (interlacing?).(The dvd looks o.k.- no jagged edges on my computer.)
Is there anything I can do to make my progressive footage look better on an interlaced t.v.? I would greatly appreciate any help or feedback on this as it's making me crazy......Thanks Dave
My PPro project is DVCPRO 720/30p and now looking at your question maybe the format I need to get out of it is 60i?(to play on an interlaced NTSC T.V.)
Thats been part of my problem,(not knowing if I need progressive, interlaced, upper, lower?) I've encoded at 30p (from A.M.E.) which looks o.k. when the DVD or mpeg2 is played on a computer, but if the DVD is played on an interlaced T.V. it has lots of jagged edges when there's any kind of motion Adding upper or lower fields first doesn't seem to make a difference.
Thanks for your time Dan! It's really appreciated.....Dave
If you are using the freeware HC Encoder (not a bad choice), change OutputColorSpace to "YV12". You can open the .avs file in HC and encode it to MPEG2. Be aware that HC does not encode audio, so you'll need to export a .WAV file from PPro.
Otherwise, "YUY2" is a good choice. Open the .avs in VirtualDub and save it to a lossless .AVI file (try the Lagarith codec in YUY2 mode, for example). Open this .avi in Encore -- and be sure to set the transocoding options for 30p.
>Is the source footage from your camera definitely 720p/30?
The footage is shot on my HVX200 720/30pn - definitely progressive.
When I make a new project I select 720p 24p
"For editing MXF material recorded in 720p/24p or 720p/24pn modes with a 60Hz Panasonic P2 camcorder".
Then I go into custom settings and change the framerate to 29.97
>If your footage and project are 30p, then you should be able to get fairly nice 30p output for DVD with AME.
Thats the most frustrating part the DVD out of AME looks good on my computer but not any T.V. I've played it on.
>Pure progressive footage in a progressive project and exported as progressive should not show any interlacing or deinterlacing artifacts, even on an interlaced TV.
Now that I know that (keep everything progressive), I guess I'll go through everything and try again, then try Dan's script.
Thanks again for your time!........Dave
After a quick Google search, I read on a forum that DVCPRO50 in 720/30pn mode may actually be interlaced with 3:2 pulldown applied. I would investigate this supposition thoroughly if I were you.
OT Sidebar: Dan, how's the search for a new monitor coming? I hear those 30" Apple Cinema displays are nice. The Dell and Gateway ones are supposed to be good, too.
I fear I've abandoned my dual-monitor setup for now. I will upgrade soon to a 24" or 30" widescreen LCD monitor from my 22" Gateway. If I ever get rid of my NTSC Monitor, then maybe dual 24s will find their way on to my real desktop, but not in the foreseeable future.
Well, in any case, you can't get blood from a stone, David -- or 60i from 30p without using motion interpolation or frame blending: The former being too time consuming and artifact-prone, and the latter won't look particularly nice.
You are better off sticking to 480p output given your sources.
I use DVCPRO HD all flavers "P" "i" HD, 50 ....
The rule of thumb - if you capture (sourse) 720p make sure you output P (progressive) and it should look good.
I thinks ppro does ok job on progressive material, interlaced = no good.
I dont discount it Dan, the only problem I have is I get stuck in the middle of it. It is either the AVI is too large of a size on my long projects, or using 3rd party Mpeg incoder which is not user friendly as incore or ppro.
It would be greatly appritiated if you could make video tutorial on how to get is thru....
By the way do you know what are they promising on cs4 as far as PPro resizing and deinterlacing options?
just as a follow up in case somebody searching the forum has the same problem as me:
My problem wasn't playing my 720/30p progressive dvd on my computer (progressive monitor)that looked good. It was trying to make it look good (or anywhere near that) on an interlaced T.V.
Dan was right, I needed 60i from my 30p footage.
(Interlaced for interlaced monitor, progressive (or de-interlaced) for a progressive monitor)
Here is a tutorial on how to do that (A.E.):
It basically involves doubling the frame count using pixel interpolation, rendering, then doubling the frame count (now 60p) And then exporting a 60i file (to make an mpeg2 out of).
While still not quite there, it's 100% better than anything I've tried so far. Pictures way sharper, most (not all) of the jagged edges are gone.
If some one knows a better method to interlace footage I would appreciate hearing.
> If some one knows a better method to interlace footage I would appreciate hearing
Well, I don't know David. I've never done a "head to head" between Adobe's pixel motion feature and AviSynth's MVTools plugin. I've used both, with good results and errors from both, both are slow, so ??
In my experience, rate-doubling via motion compensation works much better on unedited sources than it does in post-processing. Stuff like effects, titles, cuts, transitions can easily trip it up.
If you want to try it the AviSynth way, you can use my
timelapse package. You can try something like this from Premiere using DebugMode FrameServer...
I may not be adding anything extra to this topic. I did have problems when trying to export my hdv 1080i 25fps project to interlaced SD DVD (PAL).
Then I found this forum. I haven't tried the workflow you suggested. Probably will do it this week. But before I go and follow your workflow, I want to ask this:
What if I just export my finished Premiere project back to tape and then set the camera to do the downconvert process from hdv to SD?
The image quality of an interlaced SD video captured in SD PAL system from the HDV camera is great (I did it before) and I was quite happy with the results when I created the DVD. At the time I was using Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0. Now I have CS3 Pro.
In resume, do you think that by using your workflow I can achieve better results than if I export to tape and then down convert the video to interlaced SD, using the camera hardware instead all the software you use in your workflow?
> What if I just export my finished Premiere project back to tape and then set the camera to do the downconvert process from hdv to SD?
You can try it. I suppose the quality will vary from camera to camera. Early on in this discussion were many folks who tried that and were dissatisfied with the result. Even in the best case, it requires rendering to back to HD MPEG2, which is slow and lossy.
> do you think that by using your workflow I can achieve better results...
Thank you for your time and for the response to my last question.
I will try to use your workflow once you said that I will achieve better results. Although, I have one last question. Once I will be producing a DVD for PAL systems, do I need to use the SmoothDeinterlacer plugin?
Is the workflow exactly the same as you described? Will I have to change anything in the AviSynth script?
> converts to RGB32 just before smoothdeinterlace. Would it not be better to leave it as YUY2
I wish it were. There is (apparently) a bug in SmoothDeinterlace when processing YUY2 streams, whereby there is visible degradation on scene changes.
There is also a bug when processing RGB32 that causes the first field to appear twice, which is why Trim(1,0) is called after the deinterlacer.
If you are interested in better quality (and less conversions) you should definitely be using my "advanced" hd2sd() function. There are many more options in there -- and some for much better deinterlacing than "Smooth" provides.
Thankyou Dan for that explanation I wondered what the Trim was for. I have downloaded you latest hd2sd. I want to convert from 1080 25i to 720 24p. I am not sure if I should set smoothtime with the frame rates being so close. I wondered if you had any recomendations.
I use the the Mainconcept HD Pro plugin for Premiere Pro so I wondered if the same issues apply?
It looks as though CS4 is out soon lets hope they address some of these problems.
I would like to thankyou for your work. I think it is very valuable to the video community. Are Adobe and Mainconcept aware of your concerns.
AviSynth does not have the best arbitrary audio samplerate conversion. It may be better to comment out the last line. Assuming you have 48kHz input, this will leave you with 48034Hz. Do "File/Save Wav..." from VirtualDub and open the .WAV file in an audio editor such as Audition or Soundbooth and convert to 48kHz.
Alternatively (in your case of 25 -> 24 fps) you can set the Audio Smaple Rate in Premiere's export options to 50050 Hz -- which will become exactly 48000 after the slowdown. See what I mean?