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HDV --> SD DVD Workflow (DebugMode FrameServer, AviSynth)

Jul 2, 2008 10:16 PM

  Latest reply: Jaanus108, Feb 18, 2011 8:13 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 27, 2008 10:10 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    I will do that one of these days. I do not doubt your script will provide superior results. But right now Im buried. Writing a book with harsh deadlines, finishing some of my own studio jobs, my basement needs cleaned, and Im out of yoodles.
     
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    Aug 28, 2008 3:53 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Curt,

    Head for the lounge...
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2008 12:54 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Hi Dan,
    I'm filming in DVCPRO 720p (HVX200) and trying to burn a SD DVD out of Encore that will look good on an interlaced t.v. I've tried encoding (out of Premiere A.M.E.) mpegs in progressive, and interlaced, upper, and lower fields first, best quality. I can't make it look anything but bad on the t.v
    As soon as the camera moves or anything in the picture moves I get severe jagged edges (interlacing?).(The dvd looks o.k.- no jagged edges on my computer.)
    Is there anything I can do to make my progressive footage look better on an interlaced t.v.? I would greatly appreciate any help or feedback on this as it's making me crazy......Thanks Dave
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2008 1:33 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    > As soon as the camera moves or anything in the picture moves I get severe jagged edges (interlacing?).(The dvd looks o.k.- no jagged edges on my computer.)

    Possibly interlacing artifacts, but equally possible are jagged curves, edges and diagonals due to poor de interlacing.

    Have you tried Dan's script using something like this? :
    >hd2sd("mydvcpro720p/60pfile", interlaced=false, interlaced_out=false)

    -Jeff
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2008 1:54 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Thank you for the reply, I just downloaded everything from his post, so I'll install it all and try that.......thanks again, Dave
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2008 2:15 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    You're welcome. If your file *isn't* 720p/60p then you will need to adjust the hd2sd function parameters accordingly.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2008 5:49 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    >720p/60p

    Too many p's Jeff. Don't need p-p. Just one p is fine. :)

    720p/60
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2008 7:08 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Sorry to get carried away, but I *like* the "p" key. It's just so darn convenient there underneath the "p"inky finger of my right hand. :)

    BTW, Avid describes it as 720p/60p in their Panasonic P2 compatibility document.

    Link: http://www.avid.com/resources/briefs/Panasonic_FactSheet.pdf
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2008 7:26 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Two wrongs still don't make a right. Now three lefts, on the other hand...
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 1, 2008 11:34 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Hi Dan,
    Thank you!
    My PPro project is DVCPRO 720/30p and now looking at your question maybe the format I need to get out of it is 60i?(to play on an interlaced NTSC T.V.)
    Thats been part of my problem,(not knowing if I need progressive, interlaced, upper, lower?) I've encoded at 30p (from A.M.E.) which looks o.k. when the DVD or mpeg2 is played on a computer, but if the DVD is played on an interlaced T.V. it has lots of jagged edges when there's any kind of motion Adding upper or lower fields first doesn't seem to make a difference.
    Thanks for your time Dan! It's really appreciated.....Dave
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2008 3:33 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    David,

    Is the source footage from your camera definitely 720p/30? If not, that could be a source of the problem.

    Pure progressive footage in a progressive project and exported as progressive should not show any interlacing or deinterlacing artifacts, even on an interlaced TV.

    AFAIK, the only way to get the situation you describe is to start with interlaced footage in a progressive project/export.

    If you try to deinterlace progressive footage in-project, or check the Deinterlace box on export from the AME, I still don't think you'd get the same visual artifacts that you are describing.

    Dan and Jim will correct me if I am wrong. :)

    -Jeff
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2008 9:01 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    EDIT:
    Dan fixed his post. ;)
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2008 9:42 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Thanks for the reply guys.

    >Is the source footage from your camera definitely 720p/30?

    The footage is shot on my HVX200 720/30pn - definitely progressive.
    When I make a new project I select 720p 24p
    "For editing MXF material recorded in 720p/24p or 720p/24pn modes with a 60Hz Panasonic P2 camcorder".
    Then I go into custom settings and change the framerate to 29.97

    >If your footage and project are 30p, then you should be able to get fairly nice 30p output for DVD with AME.

    Thats the most frustrating part the DVD out of AME looks good on my computer but not any T.V. I've played it on.

    >Pure progressive footage in a progressive project and exported as progressive should not show any interlacing or deinterlacing artifacts, even on an interlaced TV.

    Now that I know that (keep everything progressive), I guess I'll go through everything and try again, then try Dan's script.
    Thanks again for your time!........Dave
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2008 9:56 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    After a quick Google search, I read on a forum that DVCPRO50 in 720/30pn mode may actually be interlaced with 3:2 pulldown applied. I would investigate this supposition thoroughly if I were you.

    OT Sidebar: Dan, how's the search for a new monitor coming? I hear those 30" Apple Cinema displays are nice. The Dell and Gateway ones are supposed to be good, too.

    I fear I've abandoned my dual-monitor setup for now. I will upgrade soon to a 24" or 30" widescreen LCD monitor from my 22" Gateway. If I ever get rid of my NTSC Monitor, then maybe dual 24s will find their way on to my real desktop, but not in the foreseeable future.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2008 11:42 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    >Your footage is actually double-rate (60p), right?

    It shouldn't be. If he shot in 720pN/30, then only 30 progressive frames are recorded. The normal 720p records over 60p, but not the native mode.

    https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/sales_o/p2/hvx200/

    >When I make a new project I select 720p 24p

    I agree that seems a little strange for 720pN/30 media.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2008 5:03 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    In the Premiere menu "DVCPROHD 720p 24p" reads as:

    >For editing MXF material recorded in 720p/24p or 720p/24pn modes with a 60Hz Panasonic P2 camcorder. Material recorded using Variable Frame Rates will be treated as 23.976fps. Progressive rendering.

    This is the only selection with any reference to native modes - 720p/24pn
    I then adjust the frame rate in custom settings. There is no 720p/30pn setting to choose.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2008 9:50 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    I use DVCPRO HD all flavers "P" "i" HD, 50 ....
    The rule of thumb - if you capture (sourse) 720p make sure you output P (progressive) and it should look good.
    I thinks ppro does ok job on progressive material, interlaced = no good.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2008 10:10 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    I dont discount it Dan, the only problem I have is I get stuck in the middle of it. It is either the AVI is too large of a size on my long projects, or using 3rd party Mpeg incoder which is not user friendly as incore or ppro.

    It would be greatly appritiated if you could make video tutorial on how to get is thru....
    By the way do you know what are they promising on cs4 as far as PPro resizing and deinterlacing options?
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2008 7:53 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Hi,
    just as a follow up in case somebody searching the forum has the same problem as me:
    My problem wasn't playing my 720/30p progressive dvd on my computer (progressive monitor)that looked good. It was trying to make it look good (or anywhere near that) on an interlaced T.V.
    Dan was right, I needed 60i from my 30p footage.
    (Interlaced for interlaced monitor, progressive (or de-interlaced) for a progressive monitor)
    Here is a tutorial on how to do that (A.E.):
    http://library.creativecow.net/articles/solorio_marco/interlacing_prog ressive_footage.php
    It basically involves doubling the frame count using pixel interpolation, rendering, then doubling the frame count (now 60p) And then exporting a 60i file (to make an mpeg2 out of).
    While still not quite there, it's 100% better than anything I've tried so far. Pictures way sharper, most (not all) of the jagged edges are gone.
    If some one knows a better method to interlace footage I would appreciate hearing.
    thanks...............dave
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2008 11:13 PM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Hi Dan,
    Thank you for your help, scripts and the tip on "unedited sources" I'll try your script and time lapse package, and see which works better for me, Thanks again for your time ...........Dave
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 9, 2008 6:23 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Hello Dan,
    I may not be adding anything extra to this topic. I did have problems when trying to export my hdv 1080i 25fps project to interlaced SD DVD (PAL).
    Then I found this forum. I haven't tried the workflow you suggested. Probably will do it this week. But before I go and follow your workflow, I want to ask this:
    What if I just export my finished Premiere project back to tape and then set the camera to do the downconvert process from hdv to SD?
    The image quality of an interlaced SD video captured in SD PAL system from the HDV camera is great (I did it before) and I was quite happy with the results when I created the DVD. At the time I was using Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0. Now I have CS3 Pro.
    In resume, do you think that by using your workflow I can achieve better results than if I export to tape and then down convert the video to interlaced SD, using the camera hardware instead all the software you use in your workflow?
    Best regards

    Diogo
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 11, 2008 3:54 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Hello Dan,
    Thank you for your time and for the response to my last question.
    I will try to use your workflow once you said that I will achieve better results. Although, I have one last question. Once I will be producing a DVD for PAL systems, do I need to use the SmoothDeinterlacer plugin?
    Is the workflow exactly the same as you described? Will I have to change anything in the AviSynth script?

    Thank you.

    Diogo
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 13, 2008 9:58 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    I notice that your workflow converts to RGB32 just before smoothdeinterlace. Would it not be better to leave it as YUY2.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 18, 2008 1:04 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Thankyou Dan for that explanation I wondered what the Trim was for. I have downloaded you latest hd2sd. I want to convert from 1080 25i to 720 24p. I am not sure if I should set smoothtime with the frame rates being so close. I wondered if you had any recomendations.

    I use the the Mainconcept HD Pro plugin for Premiere Pro so I wondered if the same issues apply?

    It looks as though CS4 is out soon lets hope they address some of these problems.

    I would like to thankyou for your work. I think it is very valuable to the video community. Are Adobe and Mainconcept aware of your concerns.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 18, 2008 7:46 AM   in reply to Dan Isaacs
    Sorry I mean 1440x1080 25i -> 1280x720 24p
     
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