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Problems with UK PAL DVDs playing overseas

Mar 23, 2009 4:30 AM

  Latest reply: LordSmurf, Sep 29, 2011 8:46 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2010 11:37 AM   in reply to John T Smith

    Join this forum to ask questions about DVD players

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=18
     
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    Jun 28, 2010 12:19 PM   in reply to John T Smith

    I Googled the software you mentioned... and it is, as far as I can tell without actually installing, only for a computer... not for a standalone DVD player

     

    See http://www.fbmsoftware.com/spyware-net/process/DVDRegionFree59_exe/384 1/

     

    I also found mention that it MAY be malware... or at least that there may be some versions floating around that are malware

     

    http://www.bestspywarescanner.net/errors/DVDRegionFree59.exe.html

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2010 2:30 PM   in reply to John T Smith

    I do not know much about American players, the players in the Netherlands can play PAL and NTSC. The only problem here is the region code if we (in the Netherlands we have code 2 as region code)  want to play an american code 1 disk.

    The changing of firmware to make the player region free pricipally must be done by the vendor (but he shall not do so), but many hobbyists have done it by trail and error and publiced the method on the web and then this will be used by the shop who sell the player to make it region free and use it as a selling point.This is not forbidden in the netherlands.

    Sometimes you must use your remote control to change the firmware, sometimes  you must use a small computer with blue tooth or so. It very much depent on the player. It is true that you cannot be shure if the given method is correct but you find in some forums the discussion about this and then try it for good or better. I don't know if in the US the firmware works the same way as the players in the netherlands, I did make my 3 DVD players region free using this method. The warning is that if it doesn't work out the player can stop working and must reset by the vendor.

    Chris

     

    .

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2010 2:36 PM   in reply to John T Smith

    Hi John;

     

    Many thanks for your replies, and the trouble you have taken to find me an answer.

     

    I understand your comment that the "download" is probably only if one is trying to play the DVD on a computer.

     

    I also telephoned the National Trust and a very helpful guy indicated that the DVD I was interested in purchasing could not be adapted to play on North American players, but another DVD they have about many of the National Trust properties can be read by both systems.

     

    So, I have decided not to pursue this idea.

     

    Your assistance has been appreciated by a non-geek guy ! I presume that your expression "malware" means it could have a virus attached. I will watch for your reply tomorrow!

     

    Cheers,

     

    John.

     
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    Jun 28, 2010 3:48 PM   in reply to john868

    >expression "malware" means it could have a virus attached

     

    Click the links I provided

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 11, 2010 4:17 AM   in reply to (Daniel_Lock)

    The Software mentioned above will allow a computer based player to play the discs in the wrong regions.

    Be VERY careful here, as you will be doing the following:

    1 - Modifying your firmware of the drive - this allows 4 resets, sometimes 5 before it is permanent.

    2 - Invalidating your drive warranty.

     

    If you need a disc to play anywhere outside PAL/Region 2 areas, you must do BOTH of the following:

    1 - Region-Free authoring (all regions, or Region 0)

    2 - Use NTSC.

     
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    Aug 28, 2010 4:35 PM   in reply to (Daniel_Lock)

    Hi

     

    I was interested to see that my original post had sparked off new debate. I thought you might like an update from my point of view. We have a few customers in the US, and they CAN now read the PAL discs we produce. However they went to the shops with a disc in their hand to try them first to be safe! It seems there is no absolute certainty without trying the discs but if you do look up the model numbers some will show support for PAL. My label's releases have no need for Region coding, so now I produce all releases encoded for all regions - at leaset that cuts out one pitfall, and allows Australian customers to play DVDs without problems.

     

    Daniel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 3, 2010 5:06 AM   in reply to (Daniel_Lock)

    Indeed, the conversation was already dated a year ago. It wasn't accurate then, or now.

     

    I sometimes wonder how much people have actually tested DVD players, rather than repeat a decade-old dogma that "NTSC players don't handle PAL DVDs". Starting about 5 years ago, most DVD players are made from cheap universal kits in cheap-labor Asian countries like China. Back when most DVD players were made in Japan, sure, the North American players were NTSC only, as Japan and North America are NTSC. But with the cheap kits, made in PAL-native lands, virtually all players all over the world can now play NTSC and PAL, and it's been that way for half a decade.

     

    "You can't play PAL in NTSC players" is no longer an accurate statement. Most of them do, in fact, now play PAL without any issues, and have for several years. This includes DVD recorders.

     

    It's not required to play PAL, and maybe 25% of them are still NTSC only (and I think that % is maybe a tad high, but I'm being conservative here). But pretty much everything currently sold new in stores is capable of PAL and NTSC both. The only real obstacle is region encoding. But of course, commercial DVDs can be ripped and copied (no region after that process strips it). And then many DVD players have firmware hacks or "secret" remote codes (service menus) to ignore region coding (or RCE).

     

    For more details, there's a pretty good conversation here: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/uk-dvds-regions-1948.ht ml

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2011 7:42 PM   in reply to LordSmurf

    I want to comment on LordSmurf's post above, and then I have a related question.

     

    My comment:

     

    I don't know what percentage of US-sold DVD players can play PAL as well as NTSC. One of mine doesn't (3 years old), and one does (2 years old).

     

    However one thing you should know is that even the ones that do play PAL have to convert the PAL signal to NTSC to play on standard US TV sets. They have to change the frame rate because PAL has fewer frames per second than NTSC, and they have to change the resolution of the picture because PAL has more lines than NTSC. And they have to do this on the fly! To do this conversion well requires software and hardware that are not going to be built into any consumer grade DVD player.

     

    So even if your NTSC player is multi-system and can play PAL, smooth motion will be visibly jerky as the player doubles every sixth frame. And the picture will be softened. Depending on the quality of their player and the content of the DVD, viewers may or may not notice it. (This is not an issue when playing the DVD on a computer, as the computer and its screen can play any frame rate equally well and have plenty of 'lines' of resolution.)

     

    My question (probably best answered by people in PAL countries):

     

    I am having a DVD commercially produced, intended for sale in the US. But unfortunately I went ahead and pre-sold a PAL version of the DVD ... which it turns out I won't have.

     

    The DVDs I do have will be NTSC and "all region" and therefore playable on (for example) standard European DVD players.

     

    I don't expect that the NTSC DVD will look as good on those players as it does on an all-NTSC system, for the obverse of the reasons above -- but how bad will it look? Do European buyers expect better, or do they order and play NTSC DVDs frequently and don't seem to really care?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2011 12:05 AM   in reply to Rich-LMF

    Whilst the situation has got better, it is still by no means ideal as most NTSC DVD players will not play a PAL disc.

    There are exceptions, but I know a lot of folks on t'other side of the pond and most of them are having trouble with PAL discs.

    Rich-LMF wrote:

     

    However one thing you should know is that even the ones that do play PAL have to convert the PAL signal to NTSC to play on standard US TV sets. They have to change the frame rate because PAL has fewer frames per second than NTSC, and they have to change the resolution of the picture because PAL has more lines than NTSC. And they have to do this on the fly! To do this conversion well requires software and hardware that are not going to be built into any consumer grade DVD player.

     

    So even if your NTSC player is multi-system and can play PAL, smooth motion will be visibly jerky as the player doubles every sixth frame. And the picture will be softened. Depending on the quality of their player and the content of the DVD, viewers may or may not notice it. (This is not an issue when playing the DVD on a computer, as the computer and its screen can play any frame rate equally well and have plenty of 'lines' of resolution.)

    And this is a very accurate descriptV set that will ultimately decide what will play & what will not play, as NO NTSC CRT set will output a PAL signal no matter what the player does, and there are still a considerable number of folks with CRT sets. One thing you must always remember as a DVD author is that not everyone has the latest tech, with around 50% of people having first or second generation players and CRT screens.

    But onwards......

     

    Rich-LMF wrote:

     

    My question (probably best answered by people in PAL countries):

     

    I am having a DVD commercially produced, intended for sale in the US. But unfortunately I went ahead and pre-sold a PAL version of the DVD ... which it turns out I won't have.

     

    The DVDs I do have will be NTSC and "all region" and therefore playable on (for example) standard European DVD players.

     

    I don't expect that the NTSC DVD will look as good on those players as it does on an all-NTSC system, for the obverse of the reasons above -- but how bad will it look? Do European buyers expect better, or do they order and play NTSC DVDs frequently and don't seem to really care?

    You should be just fine, assuming the standards conversion was done properly - and this is the key.

    In one way, NTSC - despite the reduction in vertical resolution - looks better than PAL simply because of 2 factors - the higher frame rate (and the resulting trick of a 2:3 pull with 24p content on DVD meaning there is no issue with audio pitch, but that's another thread altogether) and the less rectangular pixel aspect ratio - remember NTSC widescreen pixels are at 1.2 whereas PAL widescreen is at a whopping 1.4.

    However, there is still the issue of those customers with CRT TV sets running older players - we are still in a very nasty recession and buying new DVD or BD players is not exactly top of most priority lists when the gas bills just went up another 20% last week.

     

    If you do NTSC only, you will get some returns but not nearly as many as you would get selling PAL in the US & Japan.

     
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    Aug 4, 2011 9:48 AM   in reply to Neil Wilkes

    Thanks, that was very helpful!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2011 8:46 AM   in reply to Rich-LMF

    I don't know what percentage of US-sold DVD players can play PAL as well as NTSC.

    For the most part, it's as simple as country of origin. Most cheaply made players from Asia (non-Japan) can play PAL. There are only a few cheap MPEG DVD decoder chipsets, and a few common kits. In fact, many brands are just rebadging players from a company like Funai (Toshiba, Philip, Magnavox and a few others). I don't know the exact percentage, but it can be pretty well estimated using that information.

     

    However one thing you should know is that even the ones that do play PAL have to convert the PAL signal to NTSC to play on standard US TV sets. They have to change the frame rate because PAL has fewer frames per second than NTSC, and they have to change the resolution of the picture because PAL has more lines than NTSC. And they have to do this on the fly! To do this conversion well requires software and hardware that are not going to be built into any consumer grade DVD player.  So even if your NTSC player is multi-system and can play PAL, smooth motion will be visibly jerky as the player doubles every sixth frame. And the picture will be softened. Depending on the quality of their player and the content of the DVD, viewers may or may not notice it. (This is not an issue when playing the DVD on a computer, as the computer and its screen can play any frame rate equally well and have plenty of 'lines' of resolution.)

    While this can be true, it doesn't have to be. Because there isn't a standardized way to convert (or even pseudo convert a "good enough" signal), it varies from model to model. Some crop instead of resize. (Not to mention it's upsize that causes softening, not downsize.) Some interpolate frames quite well, and there's no jerky motion. Most of them simply blur 6 new frames, so motion is still not jerky.

     

    with around 50% of people having first or second generation players and CRT screens

    Sorry, but I dispute this information. Most DVD players die within 3-4 years, so it's highly unlikely anybody has an old DVD player that still functions. And then the massive sales of HDTV panels in recent years has easily dislodged a 50% CRT saturation that may have existed, unless you want to count TV sets in kitchens and garages.

    nasty recession and buying new DVD or BD players is not exactly top of most priority lists

    Walmart, $25. To most people, a functioning DVD player is a priority (right or wrong as that may be.)

     

    Only do standards conversion if you know how to do it properly. Otherwise you'll just mess it up further than any DVD player would have done. That's what I've been getting at -- that was my whole point.

     
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