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5.1 Audio Mixer window

May 26, 2009 3:23 PM

Can anyone tell me what the order of the meters are in a 5.1 project with a 5.1 audio master?  The meters appear to be L, R, Ls, Rs, C, Lfe while the surcode plugin is looking for L,R,C,Lfe,Ls,Rs.

 

Is there any way to change the order of the audio mixer meter to ensure  it matches with the surcode plugin?

 

Also, is there any way to send audio exclusively to the Lfe instead of to L,R,Ls,Rs and Lfe?

 

THX!

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2009 5:59 PM   in reply to mikem75

    There are several questions and considerations here.

     

    1. the order of the VU meters is predicated on the Audio Tracks (AT) in PrPro. At this stage of things, you place source material on the various AT's and then position them spatially. Effects (say a filter on an AT that you want to go to the LFE channel) also can play a role, but you make the decisions.

     

    2. the "standard order of channels in say a WMA file, with the individual tracks set for stripping to discreet mono WAV elements, is as per below:

     

    Track NumberTrack Name
    1Left (front)
    2Right (front)
    3Center (front)
    4LFE
    5Left Surround (rear)
    6Right Surround (rear)

     

    Now, with the SurCode DD 5.1 SS encoding, things change a bit. This does come into play if you go to a program, like Audition:

     

    Track NumberTrack Name
    1Left (front)
    2Center (front)
    3Right (front)
    4Left Surround (rear)
    5Right Surround (rear)
    6LFE

     

    Hope that this helps. If you are Importing and placing "standard" discreet SS files onto AT's, use the first table. [I also rename each AT to reflect exactly what is going to be one it.] If you are Exporting, via SurCode to then plan on using table #2, when dealing with the discrete mono files.

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 27, 2009 1:26 PM   in reply to mikem75

    I believe that the reason that your LFE signal is appearing in other channels is that it contains material above the cutoof frequency, i.e. full spectrum signal and being centered is feeding this signal to all channels equally. Not sure what Audio Effects PrPro has (many can be added as VST's) to EQ and filter your LFE channel. Coming from an Audio house, I would have expected that this would have been done for you. Maybe it has, and it's only a matter of placement and settings.

     

    When working in discrete 6 channel material, I usually do the mixing in Audition on Multi-track, and send that Mixdown to PrPro. This is placed on a 5.1 channel Audio Track, and SurCode handles the encoding to AC3 fine. I usually also send this file to the SurCode DTS encoding program to give me a DTS "optional" Audio Track on my DVD's, selectable by Menu. If you get into doing the Mixdown in Audition, let me know, as there are a couple of little things to do, and they are not really intuitive from the interface.

     

    Sorry that I do not have a direct answer for you, but have never done it quite this way. Maybe Jeff Bellune can help more, as he does a good deal of DD 5.1 SS work and probably knows different workflows far better than I do. Neil Wilkes (most often on the Encore forum) also does a great deal of multi-channel Audio for various delivery schemes. I know that DVD-Video with his Audio is one of these. Do not know if he ever uses PrPro, or not. I'd post to the Encore>Audio Handling sub-forum (linking back to this thread) and wait for Neil, or Jeff to weigh-in. Also, from the Encore end of things, Joe Bowden does use PrPro and I believe that he also does a good bit of 5.1 work. Though your question is basically about doing the work in PrPro, getting it right for Encore would bring it into the Encore spectrum. I know that Neil will not likely see this post here, and he's one of the ones, who I would want to hear from. In the Encore forum, he'll very likely see it.

     

    Good luck and I'll be watching for the resolution, because there's no telling when I'll have to do a Project, exactly as you are now.

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 27, 2009 5:26 PM   in reply to mikem75

    You are probably correct with this. That particular control is available in Audition in Multi-track Mode. One can completely isolate each channel, up to 100%.

     

    If you find more useful info, please post it here, as I'll be ready to learn something new with the discrete source files in PrPro.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2013 1:15 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    back to the Adobe Premiere Lfe cross talk issue...

     

    Lfe cross talk to other channels prevents me from using a 5.1 master channel for a 5.1 sequence where I have to build the audio from 6 discrete audio channels readily sent from the mixing studio...

     

    If I insert a 5.1 multichannel wave to the sequence everythings goes right.

     

    But - if I insert 6 discrete mono channels (L R C Lfe Ls Rs) I have to route them to the according 5.1 layout.

    For L R C Ls and Rs this can be done via the 5.1 audio panner. But the Lfe channel always has cross talk to the other channels because it can't be panned exclusively to the Lfe.

     

    The 5.1 type of master channel is more logical for the 5.1 workflow then a abstract multichannel setup with 1+2 3+4 5+6 channel groups routed via stupid "stereo balace" knobs to the final output (hmm a stereo knob to mix center and Lfe - I don't get it??)

     

    This is a real problem whenever you have to route mono tracks to a 5.1 master audio.

    If you have feature lenght material Adobe Premiere can't load a 5.1 multichannel wave file because of the 4GB filesize limitation - but you also can't load mono fles and place them on the sequence...

     

    Are there any good workflow suggestions here?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2013 2:22 PM   in reply to nw42

    This video may help you also:

    http://www.retooled.net/?p=317

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 11, 2013 11:01 PM   in reply to reToolednet

    Hi reToolednet,

     

    thanks for the link - good instructions - showing the multichannel route...

     

    But for what is it good to have cross talk from the Lfe in a 5.1 master audio sequence?

    Is this simply a bug or is there a usful workflow assigned to it? (We don't talk about subwoofer - we talk about a Low Frequency Effects Channel that is typically created in a DAW...)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 12, 2013 5:39 AM   in reply to nw42

    It is my understanding that a 5.1 mix is not to be used for relaying a

    mix from an audio mixer. It is meant to be used for people doing their

    own 5.1 mix in Premiere. So therefore if you get a mix that is a 6

    channel multimono clip or 6 separate split files for your mix you should

    use multichannel. As to answer your question about the flaw in the 5.1

    mix method, I'm not sure the answer or if its a flaw because I've never

    used this workflow.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 12, 2013 2:48 PM   in reply to reToolednet

    without a question multichannel master audio would be the way to go for a readily mixed 6 channel source...

     

    but:

     

    the multichannel audio mode is a bit wired to setup and you don't see the config directly in the audio mixer

    - 5.1 panner is visual logical structured - you see if a channel called left isn't panned to the left

    - multichannel master has all this stereo mixing knobs that have to set right and the setup is confusing:

     

    if you want to: get 6 mono channels

    channel - assignment

    1 - L

    2 - R

    3 - C

    4 - Lfe

    5 - Ls

    6 - Rs

     

    you have to setup:

    channel - assignment

    1+2 pan 100% left      - L

    1+2 pan 100% right    - R

    3+4 pan 100% left      - Ls

    3+4 pan 100% right    - Rs

    5+6 pan 100% left      - C

    5+6 pan 100% right    - Lfe

     

    I think this has it's roots in the stereo pairs of tape decks - but it's not called "legacy tape deck mode" ;-)

     

    so I would prefer a more logically structured setup...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 12, 2013 2:49 PM   in reply to nw42

    oh, totally agree its a completely illogical setup. but at least it

    works! haha

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 13, 2013 3:29 AM   in reply to reToolednet

    To get the mono LFE track to only go to the LFE of the out put file. Send the track to centre and LFE and send a duplicate of that track to only centre but use the 'invert' audio effect, this will cancel out the centre feed leaving onlt the LFE.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 13, 2013 5:13 AM   in reply to Richard M Knight

    Hi Richard,

     

    clever idea - already read it at the forum ;-)

     

    - but in my case I have multiple 5.1 & stereo mix versions in the sequence (original version, localized version, cinema mix, home theather mix, TV stereo mixdown...)

     

    that would add too much tracks and the risk of expoting wrong channels

     

    The Premiere audio workflow is much better since CS6 but there are a lot of issues left...

     

    1. unlogical multichannel setup

    2. 5.1 panner Lfe cross talk

    3. unable to load and save <4GB WAV (needed for 6 channel feature lenght material)

    4 unable to do a useful export of discrete channels (I need 6 discrete WAV files per exported 5.1 mix)

       but Premeiere only can export the mixdown or a complete multichannel setup (problems with large multichannel files - export error due to 4GB file size limitation - even MXF can't deal with 16channel 24bit)

     

    so hopefully we will see here some more progress - the import channel routing is great and also the new mixer...

     
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