Jun 1, 2009 3:28 PM
add used colors re-colors artwork
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I think I have found a bug in CS4.
Say there is an object, its fill color is not in the swatch list. Now make a spot color, with a CMYK definition that matches the fill color of the object
DO NOT change the fill color to the spot color, leave the fill as is
Now add used colors. Illustrator recolors the object, making it the spot color. I don't think this is supposed to happen. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Illustrator should add a new process color swatch when adding used colors, instead of re-coloring objects. Any thoughts?
This is not a new problem, it happens in CS3 too.
I think it works that way. In other words it can't read your mind as to what your intent is and if you have a different view point you could say hey why did it not replace the color after all I now confirmed that I wanted it to be a spot color and I made a swatch of it and said this is used color if it is a used color then it must be somewhere in the document so what do you expect?
Now make a spot color, with a CMYK definition that matches the fill color of the object
Seems to me it's logical. If you have a fill that is the exact same color breakout as a spot color, Illustrator assumes it's the spot.
I agree with Scot if you say it is a used color and it matches then it must be being used. Sees logical to me as well. And actually a good feature.
I sort of see your point but not entirely. Before add used colors, the art is a process build. After add used colors, it's a separate plate. So not at all the same thing from a print perspective.
If the spot color is an F.P.O. technical non-printing color it can get you is serious trouble.
I think add used colors should make a new process swatch. The artwork is left unaltered, the new swatch is in the list, ready to be changed later if necessary.
This is a personalized view point perhaps step back from it and look
at the other possibilities and you might think of a feature request as
opposed to calling it a bug.
A bug is something that fails to function not some I don't like there
is a big difference.
BTW the Live Color Feature would give you many choices about how you
would like this handled and might be a tool you should become familiar
with for a more modern work flow.
With all respect, I agree with Herb. That the object is changed to the exact same color build as another swatch already in the swatches panel is one thing. It's one thing that makes perfect sense as Scott and Wade point out.
But this is not all that's happening in Herb's example. Illustrator is converting a process color to a spot color... without being asked to. So in this case it isn't simply "adding used colors" because the spot color was not, in fact, being used!
It seems risky to claim that, because an already named but unused spot color happens to have the same color build as a used but unnamed process color, Illustrator should feel free to fill objects containing the latter with the former after asking it to Add Used Colors!
The "Add Used Colors" command is supposed to:
1) look for colors actually stroking or filling existing artwork (and stroking or filling existing symbols, brushes and graphic styles) for which there are no swatches in the swatches panel.
2) If and when such unnamed colors are found, add those colors to the swatches panel.
But in Herb's example, the spot swatch he created was nowhere in the artwork or in any symbol, brush or style. In fact it ONLY existed in the swatches panel itself. And it SURELY was not filling the object that Illustrator fills with the spot color once he chose Add Used Colors. It would truly make more sense for the unnamed process build filling the object to be added to the swatches panel. This is not a personalized view. I too would call it a bug.
First of all Doug you arguing about what you think is what it should do and not that it is a bug. Which it is not.
But back to your thought that since it was a process color it should be replaced by a process color even if you go through the trouble of opening a color book library to select a spot color again Illustrator does not read minds, functions very poor in this regard. it is up to you to tell it what to do and if you picked a spot color then you must want a spot color.
Doug
Thanks you're the only one so far that sees my point. Fact: AI changes process to spot without being asked to. Fact: I had a job that ended up white paper on press where there was supposed to be color.
You can't see this sort of change in a composite view. You have to open the AI in Acrobat Pro with output preview to catch this sort of thing. But not expecting a problem I did not do that. The re-coloring of the art should not have happened in the first place.
Wade, my dear friend, is it your understanding that the Add Used Colors command is to create swatches in the swatches panel for colors that are used in the artwork but not named in the panel EXCEPT if a spot swatch that happens to have the same process build as an unnamed color used in the artwork exists in the swatches panel and is not used in the artwork?
Herb and Doug we can argue the point but what it comes down to is that we see it differently so we disagree.
I do understand your point of view but I know from experience that it ill not be the only view point and so there will be a disagreement.
It depends on the way the person works.
I don't think this is a really large issue or there would have been more opinions expressed here, I can se there being a users choice in this matter
but not a change. And that would be a feature request.
I find it hard to believe also that so many things that do not work the way he user wants it is called a bug. A bug is something that does not function the way it was designed not something that does not function the way I think it should or would like it to function.
I was hoping Herb would react in a way that would express a way he thinks he would could work with this if it could not be changed a preference setting
or a toggle or a new item etc.?
Maybe if a dialog popped up, "There is a used color which corresponds to an existing spot color swatch, "[Swatch name]". Re-color art? (Yes, No, Cancel) That would work.
Still the function of add used colors really should not make any change to any art. I consider process to spot a change, it's a different plate. The command should just add colors that aren't in the swatch list, and make them global colors. I'm not sure why someone would use this command to change art - if you want to re-color art, then use another means, not "add used colors". The name of the command doesn't even indicate a change to artwork.
InDesign has a similar feature and it does not re-color objects. It does however automatically add a CMYK swatch, you can't make a CMYK color without adding it to the list. So a little different approach.
Do I need to put this in a feature request? I will if it is warranted.
Herb, I just tested this in CS4.
It's a bug.
I periodically need both a spot (enamel) and an equivalent process color in my work. This totally unexpected conversion of process to spot could lead to costly errors.
Yes Judy I agree, it's a bug, I stand by my original statement.
The only workaround that prevents recoloring - duplicate the spot swatches, change these to process. Move these to TOP of swatch list. The add used colors will not change the artwork then.
If the swatches aren't at the top it doesn't work. Not a good solution but it's all I can come up with.
Herb, I have just submitted a bug report here:
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform
If you'd like to reproduce the problem on your own machine and use the report I've submitted, feel free to copy or edit it as you wish for submission.
-----------------
Problem:
Illustrators 'Add Selected Colors' command converts process color objects to spot color objects, if an equivalent CMYK spot color already exists in the swatches panel.
Steps to reproduce bug:
1. CMYK document color mode.
2. No color swatches in swatches panel.
3. Draw an object. Using the color mixer, fill it with C=0 M=100 Y=100 K=O.
4. Do not add this swatch to the swatches panel.
5. Make a new *spot color swatch* named 'Red Enamel' based on the identical CMYK mix as previously used, C=0 M=100 Y=100 K=O.
6. Draw a new object and fill it with the swatch 'Red Enamel'.
7. Select all objects.
8. In the swatches panel, Add Selected Colors.
Results:
1. No new swatches are added.
2. All process red objects now have the spot 'Red Enamel' fill applied.
3. When printed to separations, objects that were supposed to print on process plates will print on a spot plate.
Expected Result:
A new process swatch, C=0 M=100 Y=100 K=O, should be added to the swatches panel.
Please note that this bug is not limited to the specific CMYK mix used here as an example. It occurs whenever a spot and process color have identical CMYK numbers.
I periodically need both a spot (enamel) and an equivalent process color in my work. If this totally unexpected error is not caught and manually corrected, it will result in costly errors.
Judy,
Thanks for this link. I also submitted report:
1. New file, CMYK
2. Create an object, Fill it with 80C 0M 100Y 0K
3. Delete all swatches
4. 2nd new file, CMYK
5. Create a swatch - named "dieline", spot, CMYK 80C 0M 100Y 0K
6. Create an object, add stroke color "dieline"
7. Copy this object, paste into the first file
8. In first file, deselect all. In swatches panel, Add Used Colors.
Results: The object created in step 2 is now filled with "dieline" spot color
Expected results: New global process swatch should be added
Same general idea, thanks again
Thanks Doug. :)
Herb, thank you for bringing this issue to our attention. Had I not known about it, it could have cost me dearly.
I've learned that a good way to get software improvements is to submit concise bug reports. I know it takes a bit of time, but unlike rambling discussions on forums, it conveys the problem directly to the engineers.
If you guys think it is a bug you have done the right thing.
i am however curious are you all former Freehand users? My guess is yes!
You might find this logical but as we see Illustrator users do not
necessarily see your logic.
For instance it seems there are old time Illustrator users who do not
like the new clipping mask behavior.
Some of you might not understand that and though I like it they just
do not understand why anyone would want this new behavior
as much as it might be like FreeHand.
This might be another one of those issues. And since there is a way to
accomplish this already a feature request might be in order.
That is what I suggest.
I posted this last week so I do not know why it is showing u today.
I have worked in Freehand (been a long time) but have always preferred Illustrator, and knew Illustrator first
In my opinion this is what makes it a bug:
1. A used color that is not a swatch (I am not sure what the term for that is) can not be a spot color. It's impossible. So add used colors, or add selected colors, is redefining the color
2. My workaround proves its a bug. If you duplicate the spot, change the new swatch to process, Illustrator still recolors the object to the spot color. What sense does that make? The only way to prevent it is to move the new swatch higher on the list. Then AI picks the process swatch (I guess it works from the top of the list down)
And the even bigger question I have is, in what instance would someone want AI to redefine a color, when all you're doing is adding used colors? If someone wants an object to be a spot color, he'll recolor the object, not have AI do it arbitrarily without his knowing.
This is probably more of a bug fix the engineers need to work on, as opposed to a feature request. Like Judy said, it can result in costly reprints. I'm already getting pocket folders redone because of this issue, some of the art dropped off because it defaulted to the dieline color. Dumb me didn't see it.
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