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Large Still Images into PE - One Workflow

Jun 19, 2009 8:04 AM

Tags: #premiere #large #batch #actions #scale #automate #still_images
  Latest reply: Bill Hunt, Feb 12, 2014 3:02 PM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 20, 2010 12:16 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Thanks Hunt,

     

    I experimented for 1/2 day with this in Premiere Pro CS5, which works with the new Mercury Playback Engine and speeds things up, even with large images. Here's what I discovered editing for a 720p (i.e. the vertical frame will be 720 pixels).

     

    If I leave my Canon 40D RAW image its original size (3888x2592), perhaps with about amount 50 radius 1.0 in Smart Sharpening in Photoshop, I can either upsize or downsize and get excellent image quality. For example, Scaling down to 28% makes fit vertically. And scaling up to 250 or even higher gives me a good zoom and/or pan. Both with good image quality. This way I don't have to make calculations with every image or decide ahead of time what I want to do in premiere. I don't know whether I'll clog my system eventually with these large sizes?

     

    Or alternatively, I can downsize the 2592 dimension (landscape image)  in Photoshop to a 1440 vertical--that will work fine with panning; but you lose quality if you wish to zoom.

     

    One problem or bug I'd like to ask about. If I resize by dragging in the Program Panel, the image comes out blurry. What I have to do then is downsize in the Effects Panel, click outside the white bounding box, and the blur disappears--then upsize again from the Effects Panel. What's with that? Why does clicking the actual image in Program Panel and/or dragging the white bounding box cause blurriness.

     

    kdoc

     
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    Dec 20, 2010 2:24 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Thanks Hunt:

     

    This leaves three questions, if you have a line into Adobe (or if you work for Adobe?):

     

    1. Is the scaling interpolation smart enough that when you scale down substantially in PrP it uses Bicubic sharper; and when you scale up substantially it uses Bicubic smoother? That would be awesome if it did. lBut anyway, the image looks good on full screen Program playback, so.... why worry!

     

    2. Once you've zoomed/panned, (and assuming the software didn't crash with the larger file sizes), and then you've exported--is the file size kept by the exported product only that of your final resizings, or does it keep the file size you put in from Photoshop (say, 28 M)? To put the question differently, if I import a 28 M psd file, but then only use it at 28%, is the final exported and rendered size which is stored 28 M or smaller?

     

    3. If one were to save the Photoshop file as a jpg file it would be smaller, and less likely to crash PrP. If we then scale up and down, and up and down, etc. experimenting with an optimal scaling and panning, does that deteriorate the image each time you change it (as does opening and changing, and then closing a jpg image generally?

     

    Just  wondering...

     

    Thanks

     

    keith

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 20, 2010 4:39 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    > According to Adobe, MPE allowed them to basically use the same Scaling algorithms from PS, so things really got better.

     

    Actually, with CUDA processing, Premiere Pro CS5 uses a scaling algorithm that is even better than what Photoshop uses.

     

    > I will try to get the word on #1, as I just do not know which of the PS algorithms might be used, and under which circumstances.

     

    Premiere Pro CS5 doesn't use a different algorithm for upscaling versus downscaling. The factors that determine what algorithm is used are 1) whether CUDA processing is being used and 2) whether Maximum Render Quality is chosen. The details are here.

     
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    Dec 20, 2010 8:18 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Both responses are very helpful. From this I've (temporarily) decided to neither upsize or downsize in Photoshop--as long as the system isn't freezing; based on your answer Hunt, there would be no point to it. And I'm delighted I'm using CUDA--It looks like I can resize in Premiere without hesitancy and get excellent quality from my still images. I'll stay with not using JPEG's, as has been the case in PS.

     

    But most important, let me say how delighted I am with the responsiveness and clarity of the answers in this forum. One could not ask for more. You know, I almost moved to a Mac, since all the people I knew used Final Cut. I'm delighted I decided against this--Premiere is terrific now, and is overwhelming  FCP as we speak! And the support we're getting is equally wonderful.

     

    Thank you all.

     

    kdoc (Keith)

     
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    Dec 24, 2010 12:26 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    I just came upon this link:

    http://library.creativecow.net/harrington_richard/Premiere-Pro_Photosh op-Document/1

    and thought it fit in well with the topic. It's particularly useful if you don't want black borders on your frame (due to the 16:9 aspect ratio of a high def Premiere frame, and the typical 3:2 aspect of many DSLR's). This tecnique is fine for placing an image full view into Premiere. If one plans to zoom/pan, instead of using 720x1280, for example, you might double the dimensions. Frankly, I'm not sure this isn't more trouble than its worth--all of what it does can be done by resizing in PrP now.

     

    kdoc

     
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    Dec 24, 2010 1:32 PM   in reply to kdoc2

    http://library.creativecow.net/tutorials/adobepremierebasics

     

    For some bizarre reason I can't seem to get a link into this. But if you select and copy the above, and paste it into the browser as a URL, then scroll down to "Need a Photoshop Document" you'll have it. Then you can tell me how I should have gotten that to register correctly here

     

    kdoc

     
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    Dec 31, 2010 8:42 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd (and Hunt), can you tell me something about the deep workings of Premiere. I'm bringing in still images which I intend to pan/zoom--sometimes a little, at times a lot. I'm just bringing in the size that came  off the camera 3888x2592. So in a 720p video, I'm initially seeing a markedly zoomed portion of the image, and the scaling calls that "100%". Is there any difference to Premiere at all whether I handle them:

         a. Down-size, by scaling down to around 28% to see the entire image, and to around 35% or whatever for zooming/panning?    Or...

         b. Scale to Frame Size to begin with, in which case the entire image is called 100% scale by Premiere, and then to pan/zoom I have to upsize to a scale of over 100%.

     

    In effect what I'm asking is whether we're upsizing in one method and downsizing in another, and whether it makes any difference to the overall quality of the images or the ease by which Premiere handles the files?

     

    Thanks

    kdoc

     
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    Dec 31, 2010 11:55 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Actually, while your responses are always very helpful--and very much appreciated--in this case it's not what I'm asking. I'm using a different approach than you, and I put the whole large image into Premiere (3888 x 2592). Then I resize in Premiere--because Todd said the interpolation is so good there, and the computer seems to handle it fine. I'm asking whether it's better or worse or indifferent to start with setting "Scale to Frame Size", and then resize in the Video Effects/Motion Panel, or whether I  should skip "Scale to Frame Size" and do all the resizing using the Effects Panel?

     

    kdoc

     
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    Jan 1, 2011 10:04 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Think of it this way: If you scale the image once and then work with the resized image as a source asset, then you've just spent the time to rescale it once. But if you work with the full original image, you force Premiere Pro to scale the image each time that it's used. Even with a powerful computer, that can be a considerable performance hit. If you're just working with one image, maybe the convenience of just working with the original and scaling on the fly in Premiere Pro is a good tradeoff; but sometimes the balance of benefits tilts the other way.

     

    There's a section in Premiere Pro Help that goes into some detail about these recommendations.

     
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    Jan 1, 2011 11:21 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd, I too appreciate your help and comments, and the excellent reference. But here's what I'm wondering. Let's say that with 80-90% of the images one plans on having at least some movement (panning or zooming). That means that Premiere will always be going from one size or position to at least one more, perhaps two--sometime going from larger to smaller, other times the other way. And you'll be creating in Premiere, so the exact zoom or movement isn't known  ahead of time--it depends on the final order of the images, the rhythm, duration, audio, etc., and all of that is in creative flux.  It seems like you might as well routinely scale to 2 times each frame dimension or so in Photoshop, and just work starting there in Premiere--but avoiding up-resolutioning. What do you think of this approach?

     

    kdoc

     
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    Jan 2, 2011 12:30 AM   in reply to kdoc2

    There are no hard and fast rules. The goal is to not use a source image that is too large for no good reason. Work with whatever size works best for you under the circumstances. If the image is just a static background plate, make it exactly the size of your frame; if it will be panned across, make it bigger than your frame. But don't bring in 5,000x5,000 pixels when you only need 1920x1080.

     
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    Jan 3, 2011 7:50 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

     

    It's getting more and more clear. I'll try and recapitulate: I (we) need to make every effort to not bring more pixels than we will use!! And certainly not a great excess of pixels! And I do understand that everyone does this a little different--"whatever works," so to speak.  I'm also hearing that if one plans on upsampling the original image, for a major zoom, it should be done in Photoshop, according to the link Todd sent--probably because interpolation in Premiere (particularly when GPU acceleration is not available) may not be as good as in Photoshop Bicubic Smoother. (i.e. The article suggests that upsampling in Premiere will result in significant degradation in image quality). Preparing in an image which then becomes around twice the Premiere frame size in each dimension, sRGB; *.psd would probably be a reasonable "batch" action to perform on those images one plans to zoom and/or pan--assuming you don't know exactly how you're going to use the image in Premiere.

     

    Any disagreements? Thanks again, all.

     

    kdoc

     
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    Jan 3, 2011 8:23 AM   in reply to kdoc2

    >  I'm also hearing that if one plans on upsampling the original image, for a major zoom, it should be done in Photoshop, according to the link Todd sent--probably because interpolation in Premiere (particularly when GPU acceleration is not available) may not be as good as in Photoshop Bicubic Smoother. (i.e. The article suggests that upsampling in Premiere will result in significant degradation in image quality).

     

     

    The scaling available in Premiere Pro CS4 and earlier and Premiere Elements is worse than the scaling available in Photoshop.

     

    The scaling available in Premiere Pro CS5 with CUDA processing is better than the scaling available in Photoshop.

     

    The scaling available in Premiere Pro CS5 without CUDA processing is the same as the scaling available in Photoshop.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2011 8:35 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Great Todd: That nails it down.

     

    kdoc (keith)

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 10:45 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Man, there's a lot of detail in this thread. I'll have to read through it a couple of times to gaterh it all in. Thanks for the info.

     
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    Apr 24, 2011 12:14 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    > ...the 4096 x 4096 max (that might have changed upward in PrPro CS5, but I cannot remember now).

     

     

    Yes, that's much different now:

    http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2010/07/maximum_dimensions_ in_premiere.html

     
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    May 1, 2011 10:35 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    I have become aware that my project is burning up memory and causing frequent out of memory errors.

    I am way down the creation path having used many still images that are 2560 X 1920 pixels and I am wondering what is the best way for me to correct my project situation now. Appears I need some batch software to condense my image sizes.

    My Project Settings currently use 720 X 576 PAL output but maybe I want widescreen format.

    What resolution images are recommended?

     

    I have 6 parts to my project and I am half way through part 2.

     

    If I need to redress all my images then I assume that is going to screw everything I have edited and produced so far.

     

    I guess I could lock away part 1 that I have finished and start afresh using lower resolution still images from now on. So would it be recommended that I park my project that has used large resolution images and start working on new projects which can be merged together later?

     

     

    David

     
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    May 20, 2011 4:08 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Hello. I'm creating a project in Adobe Premier using still images only. All the images I scanned are 4" x 6" and are 200 dpi. In the Adobe Premier project, they are getting cut off. When I go back into Photoshop, and re-size them to 72 dpi, they aren't cut off as much, but still a little bit. Certainly I'm not supposed to use an even lower resolution than that! Given that the help menu says it can support 4096 by 4096 pixels, what is wrong? Even when I look at my project in full screen mode, the images are cut off. I also tried the "fit" drop down menu from the preview screen, and I've selected "fit." The only way my images fit is if I select 20% or some such. Surely this can't be correct - an image that's only 4" by 6", at only 72 dpi, and 20% of that? Please help. Thanks so much.

    - Mona

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 20, 2011 5:14 PM   in reply to monagraphicdesign

    When you go into Photoshop, use the CROP tool instead of scaling or IMAGE SIZE

     

    Set the crop dimensions to match your sequence pixel dimensions.  For example, If you are doing NTSC DV, set the crop to 720 px by 480 px.  If you use pixels, the resolution textbox is ignore.  Use the crop tool on your image and same the resized image under a new name (to preserve your original). 

     

    Simlarly, if you are creating stills in photoshop, when you click on NEW, select VIDEO, and then select the video preset that matches your timeline--this will set pixel dimensions and pixel aspect ratio for you.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2011 10:19 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Image size is problematic if the proportions of the original image (eg 5 x 7)  don't match the proportions of the timeline (eg 1440 x 1081).

     

    Although the image size dialog does directly given the user the option of choosing the scaling algorithm, the user can set the default scaling algorithm in the EDIT PREFERENCES GENERAL dialog.  Its my understanding that this preference is used for all scaling unless overridden.

     

    What I usually do is the adjust the pixel ratio of the original before I do the crop.  I have the sequence recorded in a Photoshop action.

     
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    Jun 24, 2011 4:01 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Thanks for this long thread!

     

    It explains EXACTLY what I need to know with my new Sony digital camera's images and mixing with videos in CS5.5.

     

    Thanks!!!!!!!!!

     

    Petey

     
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