I'm looking for a new PC that can handle CS4 (I primarily use Premiere Pro) and HD editing. I've done some research and came up with this config from HP. Can you provide some feedback?
NOTE: I'm planning to purchase and install extra RAM (thinking 8 gigs total). Are there any issues with combining purchased RAM with what comes with the PC?
Thanks --
Keith
-Configurable- HP Z400 Workstation - Microsoft Windows® SATA/SAS - Build Your Own Promo and Save $75 Instantly until 9/1/09!
FX625AV-PR400
HP Z400 Workstation
Genuine Windows Vista® Business 64-bit
HP Z400 475W 85% Efficient Chassis
Intel® Xeon® W3520 2.66 8MB/1066 QC CPU (HIGHPWR)
HP Z400 Localization Kit
HP Air Cooling Solution (Must order Heatsink with this item)
HP Standard Heatsink Thermal Kit (This Module is required if Air Cooling and Low Power CPU are selected)
NVIDIA Quadro FX1800 768MB Graphics
HP 1GB (1x1GB) DDR3-1333 ECC RAM
HP 160GB SATA 7200 1st HDD
HP 160GB SATA 7200 2nd HDD
HP 160GB SATA 7200 3rd HDD (Second drive must be SATA)
HP 16X DVD+-RW SuperMulti SATA 1st Drive
No Floppy Disk Kit
HP PS/2 Standard Keyboard
HP PS/2 Optical Scroll Mouse
3 years parts, labor and onsite service (3/3/3) standard warranty. Certain restrictions and exclusions apply.
Hi Harm --
In your guide, you note that the manufacturer-recommended video cards may be overkill for HD editing workstations. I had selected a Nvidia FX1800 in the above HP config. Do you think I could get by with something less powerful? Any recommendations on a card that would be acceptable for HD and CS4?
Thank you --
Keith
Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like the Z400 may not be the way to go. Do you have a recommendation for another HP model and processor I should look at? I'm not stuck on HP but I'm going to buy a pre-built and would rather not get a Dell. I have also looked at Maingear (seems expensive). Any other manufacturers you recommend?
Thanks --
Keith
Before you rule out the Z400, take a look at this...
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/videoedsys/revfeat/review_hp_z400_05 12/index.html
And if he aint a computer geek and is actually a creative type ,pro editor...what does he do then?
I have never had a problem telling my 'puter builder to custom build me a machine to do the task I want them to do. They have built me about 7 reliable systems
I suggest to the OP if you do not wish to build it your self ..take Harms list to a custom 'puter builder and get the job done. Avoid the factory Dells and the HPs etc...
If it doesnt work...BLAME HARM M.
JSS1138 wrote:
You get a better computer for less money, without all the crap that a pre-built will invariably come with.
I can only speak from my experience, but when I got my HP workstation, the only extra "crap" it came with was just some CD/DVD burning software - just that and XP. When HP sent me my (free, by the way) Vista64 upgrade, it was just Vista64 - nothing else. Now, my laptop was another story, but that was more of a high-end consumer model - not a workstation-type laptop...but I had all the "crap" cleared off in about 15 minutes.
As for a better computer for less money, that may be or may not be. I think many people have issues with PPro because they work on home made systems that have components that may not work together well. I think a large part of why I've had such a smooth PPro experience (with CS3 and CS4) has been because my system was built to work together well...not being a hardware/IT guy, that's reason enough to me to spend the extra money.
But I know others who build their own systems and are very good at it - they can put together a great system that runs great for less money...but they also can function as their own IT support...me - I like picking up the phone and calling HP...their workstations have a great warranty.
Keith, good luck in what ever you decide!
Keith,
I understand your reluctance and I can not judge the value of your time. Just a couple of general remarks.
When buying or building a new PC the most time consuming part is selecting which components you want to have in that PC. Once you have that list it is time to shop around and nearly always will you find that either not all your selected components can be found in a prebuilt system, or you can't get everything from one supplier or delivery times vary due to out-of-stock situations, so you may have to compromise, selecting other components that need further investigation. This process can easily take a week or more. BTW, that was why these guides were written, to help in the selection process and save time.
In contrast, physically building your own PC takes less than a day and is not nearly as challenging as some believe. If you have the skills to plug an electrical cord in a wall outlet and can handle a screwdriver, you can easily build your own system.
BTW, just out of curiosity, I wanted to see the HP Z800 workstation and I started to configure the system. The price was already over $ 13K when I was trying to configure the raid controller and saw that the only options were so limited in capabilities, that I gave up. If they can't deliver any good raid configurations on a workstation, it is not worth the name, let alone the extravagant price.
For comparison, my system costs less than 3000 euros in the Netherlands, excluding sales tax at the moment and is much better equipped than the HP Z800. A single 1 TB disk costs me around 60 euros, HP charges $ 450 for a similar disk. Count your benefits if you want 16 disks... disregarding the fact that their case does not allow that.
I envy you the daily rates you can charge if you can make up that price difference in one day physically building a system.![]()
Keith, if you do end up specifying a computer to someone I noticed you mentioned 8 GB of RAM. That would have worked well in last years systems but with these newer processors of the i7 family you have to do modules in increments of three's. So you might want to specify 6 GB or 12 GB to keep all the memory modules the same size. I have not done business with GuyGraphics but have heard some favorable results in the past.
Thank you everyone for the very helpful feedback thus far. I will be giving GuyGraphics a call to see what they can do. It's not looking like HP can deliver the right set of components in a given model for a reasonable price. I probably could put the machine together myself, but I'd rather have the piece of mind that an expert has put it together and worked through all the issues that I'd invariably encounter. I spend my non-working hours on music/photography/video projects and with a busy schedule those hours are precious!
I'll let you know what Guy G. has to say --
Keith
www.myspace.com/hemmit
I spoke to Ashley at Guy G (very helpful) and he recommended:
-Processor: I7 920
-OS: XP Pro (and wait for Win 7)
-RAM: 4 GB DDR 3 1600
-Video card: ATI 4850 1 GB
-500 GB OS drive
-Dual 1 TB media file/project file drive in RAID 1 config
-Mobo: P6T Deluxe
-Power supply: 650W
-Chassis: Cooler Master 690
With a Sony DVD RW drive and an extra Firewire B card it prices out to $2,282. Not too bad -- what do you guys think of the config?
Keith
Good basic system, it will not quite compete with Harm's disk-centric overclocked monster (you can see I am jealous). but a fairly reasonable, what I would call a true entry level video editing system.
But I am confused to why he specifed 4 GB (unless he was following your directions). I would guess that for that motherboard it would either be 3 GB or 6 GB or some multiple thereof. Unless you use all three memory channels I would suspect performance would be somewhat crippled.
I personally would not go with RAID 1. With out adding appreciable to the cost I would specify those two disks be used seperately but the second disk in a mobile rack and get an additional tray or two and archive to the mobile rack drive(s). Also personally I would use a VelociRaptor drive for the OS. You will not have quite the storage and it will cost a few dollars more but you will get better performance from the OS and applications.
John beat me to it, but for information only the new i7 family of Intel chips have three memory channels there are system that only use pairs.
Hi there --
"But I am confused to why he specifed 4 GB (unless he was following your directions). I would guess that for that motherboard it would either be 3 GB or 6 GB or some multiple thereof. Unless you use all three memory channels I would suspect performance would be somewhat crippled."
Ashley said that with Win7 4 Gigs was the max. On their configurator, it's described as 4GB DDR3-1600 RAM (2x2 GB). I'll ask him about it.
"I personally would not go with RAID 1. With out adding appreciable to the cost I would specify those two disks be used seperately but the second disk in a mobile rack and get an additional tray or two and archive to the mobile rack drive(s). Also personally I would use a VelociRaptor drive for the OS. You will not have quite the storage and it will cost a few dollars more but you will get better performance from the OS and applications."
If I am reading right, you are recommending 2 separate drives instead of 2 drives in a RAID 1 config, and that the 2nd drive be in a mobile rack that I archive to. What are the advantages of manually archiving to a mobile drive instead of using a RAID 1 config?
Thanks for the tip on the VRaptor drive, I'll ask about it.
John beat me to it, but for information only the new i7 family of Intel chips have three memory channels there are system that only use pairs.
Still confused why it's offered in pairs on their site with i7.
Eventually you will go with a 64 bit OS (Win 7 is available in a 64-bit version) and then you want more than 4 GB. Even now I am daily using Vista 64 Business Edition for editing. At this point in time I would actually recommend going with Vista 64 if you are capable of tuning and performance enhancing it. It is unfortunate that some of the options that they offer are so limited, for instance they only offer Vista 64 Ultimate which is an overkill for video editing.
The mobile rack allows you to change disks readily and as your projects grow you can very simply archive to as many additional disks as you want and then easily pull an old disc of the shelf and access it with a simple reboot and no accessing the inside of the computer. The only advantage of RAID 1 is redundancy, there is no gain in capacity and no performance increase.
I suspect that they just have not brought their configurator up to date. Apparently it is not a very intelligent configurator as when you select the ASUS motherboard it should require three memory stick modules
Keith,
As Bill and others have remarked, DDR3 memory comes only in 3 sticks to be effective. So 3, 6, or 12 GB per set of three sticks.
Why you would opt for a firewire B PCI-X card I do not know, but keep in mind that mixing A and B on the same card can lead to problems. I would personally prefer to use eSATA for disks and the on-board firewire A connectors for external back-up disks or decks/cameras. On my system I have the firewire connector on the back for an external drive and my deck (for DV and playback), and the one on the front (better topside with my case) for camera capture from HDV.
"As Bill and others have remarked, DDR3 memory comes only in 3 sticks to be effective. So 3, 6, or 12 GB per set of three sticks.
Why you would opt for a firewire B PCI-X card I do not know, but keep in mind that mixing A and B on the same card can lead to problems. I would personally prefer to use eSATA for disks and the on-board firewire A connectors for external back-up disks or decks/cameras. On my system I have the firewire connector on the back for an external drive and my deck (for DV and playback), and the one on the front (better topside with my case) for camera capture from HDV."
I spoke to Ashley re: the RAM, and he said that although the mobo has triple channel RAM, with XP Pro you can only utilize up to 4 Gigs RAM. Once I upgrade to Win 7 (as is my intent) I would upgrade to 12 Gigs. So it sounds like triple channel is there, but since XP can't take advantage of it, putting in 3 sticks now would be unnecessary. I was planning to get 4 Gigs now, then upgrade to 12 Gigs once I switch to Win7. Is that a sound strategy?
Thanks for the guidance on the firewire. I have a need for the following:
-Fireware A for my external sound card
-Firewire A for Epson R2400 printer
-Firewire A for camcorder/digital camera
-Firewire A or B for LaCie 1
-Firewire A or B or eSATA for LaCie 2
-Firewire A or B or eSATA for SimpleTech ProDrive
From research, it looks like there is 1 Firewire A port and 1 eSATA port built in to the Asus 6PT Deluxe. You are saying if I want more connections, getting supplemental firewire A is recommended. So adding an A card gives me 3 more connections for a total of 4 Firewire A, which would take care of the 1st 4 devices on the list above. The remaining 2 devices on the list (LaCie 2 and ProDrive) could be served by eSATA, but it looks like the card only has 1 eSATA port. Any ideas? I suppose I could share an A port between printer and camera, and use the freed up Firewire A port for either LaCie 2 or ProDrive.
Keith
Keith,
I was planning to get 4 Gigs now, then upgrade to 12 Gigs once I switch to Win7. Is that a sound strategy?
No. Several problems with that approach. First, you are making the assumption of using XP32. I would not do that on a newly built system. Either Vista 64 or Windows 7 RC makes much more sense. The latter is free and with the advent of CS5, which presumably is 64 bit, it makes no sense to invest in 32 bit OS any longer. Also, just putting two sticks of RAM into a DDR3 system will seriously hamper performance. At a later date getting the same sticks to upgrade to 12 GB (6 sticks) may prove difficult because they have been replaced with other models with new specs. The consequence may be that your initial investment in these two sticks will be worthless and need to be thrown away for good memory management. You will be much better off with 12 GB now, especially since RAM is cheap. Every mobo manufacturer advises you to ONLY use the same sticks in all slots.
On you firewire setup, I'll reply shortly. The Managing Director just called me for dinner, and we can't keep her waiting, can we?![]()
Keith,
-Fireware A for my external sound card
-Firewire A for Epson R2400 printer
-Firewire A for camcorder/digital camera
-Firewire A or B for LaCie 1
-Firewire A or B or eSATA for LaCie 2
-Firewire A or B or eSATA for SimpleTech ProDrive
You could easily daisy chain the first two, or maybe three. While playing sound, you don't need to capture, when capturing you don't need your printer, so bandwidth with these two or three devices would be unlikely to cause problems.
In my case I have a firewire harddisk daisy chained with a DV deck, taking up one firewire connection.
On the P6T-WS Pro you have two firewire A ports, so, again in my case, I use the second firewire for direct camera connection.
If you can get a PCI-X firewire B card in, you will have two additional B ports for your HD's. My remark was based on the fact that I once installed such a PCI-X card with 2 B connections and 1 A connection (which was rather difficult to find at that time) and it caused some difficulty with using A and B at the same time.
Hope this helps.
Very helpful all, thank you. I think I've got the Firewire ports sorted out, and thanks for the clarification Harm on the mixing of A and B. Sounds like 12 Gigs RAM now is the way to go. I also like the idea of installing the Win7 RC, but am not sure if Guy G. can accomodate. I'll ask him. If he can't, is the recommendation Vista 64? Guy G. only lists the "Ultimate" version but I am assuming I don't need that?
Keith
If they do not want to install Windows 7 RC have him install the OS they offer with an upgrade coupon.
Also see this ad from Microcenter Unfortunately I missed this.
Hey I just also found Windows 7 64-bit RC media from Newegg for only $10!
Thanks everyone for all your help! In the end, I elected to go with a local systems integrator using the list of components below. Apparently, 1 TB drives are experience high year 1 failure rates, so I went with 3 x 500 GB drives instead. Everything else is as we discussed -- getting everything for a decent price too. Thank you again for your assistance!
Keith
Cooler Master COSMOS 1000 RC-1000-KSN1-GP
No Power Supply Full Tower Case (Silver/Black)
Thermaltake W0227RU Toughpower XT 650W
Power Supply
Asus P6T DELUXE V2 Core i7 / Intel X58/ DDR3/
CrossFireX & SLI/ A&2GbE/ ATX Motherboard
Intel Core i7 Processor i7-920 2.66GHz 8MB
LGA1366 CPU, Retail
Super Talent DDR3-1600 4GB (2x2GB) CL7 Dual
Channel Memory Kit
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD4850 VAPOR-X 1GB DDR3
VGA/DVI/HDMI PCI-Express Video Card, Retail
Seagate ST3500320NS 500GB SATA2 7200rpm
32MB Hard Drive
Lite-On IHAP222-06 LightScribe 22X DVD+/-RW
Dual Layer Drive (Black)
Shuttle PC23 25-in-1 USB2.0 Internal Card Reader
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit w/ SP1
ADS PYRO Basic 1394/FireWire PCI Host card -
API-311
Linksys WMP54G Wireless G PCI Adapter
Congratulations, but you confuse me with your 4 GB of RAM and a 64 bit OS when we all explained that the chip and motherboard have three memory channels. You are limiting yourself to 2/3 the available memory bandwidth to save yourself ~$50. Can you tell us why?
Also since there are two 1394 ports on the motherboard why the 1394 card? I could not find anything on the ADS web site about a API-311, maybe they have repaced it with a newer model?
Keith,
One thing I don't understand. You get a
Asus P6T DELUXE V2 Core i7 / Intel X58/ DDR3/
CrossFireX & SLI/ A&2GbE/ ATX Motherboard
and combine that with
Super Talent DDR3-1600 4GB (2x2GB) CL7 Dual
Channel Memory Kit
Why disable DDR3 capability by using only 2 sticks? Get at least 3 sticks to make full use of DDR3.
Good choice with the Sapphire Vapor-X series.
North America
Europe, Middle East and Africa
Asia Pacific