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Photo in frame showing outside of stroke

Sep 3, 2009 2:25 PM

I have several photos in frames. An object style is applied for a 2 pt stroke (paper color) set to the inside. A sliver of the photo is showing outside of the stroke. Take a look at the attached pdf.

 

Any ideas on how to correct this?

 

Thanks,

Phil

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 3, 2009 2:46 PM   in reply to philking

    Hi Phil,

     

    I'm not seeing anything odd in the PDF at all. Where should I be looking?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 3, 2009 5:26 PM   in reply to philking

    I've had exactly the same experience with images whose container is stroked to the inside. It's not shown up in print, but can definitely be seen on screen, bit in InDesign and the PDF. In order to play it safe, I've changed the size and position of the frame to get the desired layout result with a "centered" stroke. AFAIK, that's the only workaround.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2009 6:48 AM   in reply to philking

    I've had images with stroke on inside of frame and the image sliver show up on print as well as seeing the effect in the PDF. And switching the align stroke to center or to outside is the only workaround.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2009 7:41 AM   in reply to philking

    PDF looks good here, too.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2009 7:46 AM   in reply to philking

    Just printed it out and I see it on paper..... Center image, to the right of frame. Is that the same area you see or is there more/less?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2009 8:19 AM   in reply to philking

    I can see the hairlines you're talking about in Reader 9. If I zoom in, they come and go - there at 800%, not there at 600%. If I zoom all the way in to 6400%, they're still visible but +still+ only one pixel wide. Could it be a rounding error? If the image frame dimensions and placement are not whole numbers of points (=pixels in ID) and the stroke inside is placed (by the PDF renderer) to the nearest pixel, this might in some places be one bigger or smaller than the frame itself. Most of the hairlines go away if I turn off smoothing in Reader preferences.

     

    Just to test this, try making say the horizontal size of one of the images an exact number of points and see if the vertical hairlines go away.

     

    Noel 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2009 8:31 AM   in reply to philking

    I tried several print options to no avail, but I do find that if I place it in ID, they do not print. Does your native file print the error? What are your print settings when making the PDF? Have you tested to print a PS and distill the file? Just process of elimination...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2009 4:44 PM   in reply to philking

    OK. That was just an idea. I'm still sure it's a rounding error, which you can confirm by opening the PDF in Acrobat or Reader and zooming in to 6400% on the top left-hand corner of one of the images. You might see hairlines above or to the left of the image, and you can see that they're only one pixel wide. Change the zoom to 6399%, then 6398% and so on and watch how the hairlines change - sometimes both, sometimes one or the other and sometimes neither. Do the same at around 600% and see hairlines appear on the left side, then on the right. You'd have to be unlucky for this to show in print.

     

    You can probably cure it by increasing the size of the frame by, say, 1% without altering the image fit - in other words, centre your 50pt x 50pt image in a frame 50.5pt x 50.5pt.

     

    Noel

     

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2010 9:35 AM   in reply to !Firedog

    I'm struggling with this same problem and have yet to find a solution. In my case I wrote it off as a screen-display issue since I could not see the hairline when zooming in on the PDF.  However when it went to our Prepress department they confirmed in the dot information going to the rip that the hairline existed and was going to print the same as my laser prints were showing, so I had no choice but to align strokes to center. This solves the problem sometimes but there are some instances where I really need to align the stroke to the inside of a photo and would like to determine if this is a known issue with InDesign?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2010 9:46 AM   in reply to Jason Mohr

    Jason, does this picture gets downsampled by the export, or are you instructing ID to include all data nevertheless?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2010 12:23 PM   in reply to [Jongware]

    My preview PDF is a standard PDFX-1a export, so it is set to downsample anything over 450dpi (which doesn't apply to any of the images in my file). On our final output for plates the tolerance is even higher so I don't think this is a downsampling issue.  We just ran a second test and basically what is previewing in InDesign (the appearance of the hairline outside the white border) is showing a more accurate preview than even the PDF is. InDesign shows the hairline consistently in standard mode and also when I preview separations, so the visual feedback it's showing me is consistent with the final output of dot data going to plate. We previewed the individual separations (post-rip) and can see that there is a hairline of the image outside the white border being introduced for no apparent reason. The ONLY solution I've found for this is to set stroke alignment to center, so that tells me InDesign's implementation of stroke alignment to inside is not working as it should.  I've attached screenshots from a composite of the post-rip separations to illustrate the problem.

     

    Notes:

    • Using Indesign CS4
    • There are no effects on the image box
    • Background color of the image box is set to none (and setting to white doesn't fix the problem)
    • Our system is as far as I understand using the latest Adobe RIP

     

    Stroke_Problem.jpgStroke_Problem_ZOOM.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2010 2:05 AM   in reply to Jason Mohr

    Exactly the same problem here.

     

    Have a 250-page book filled with images using inside stroke going to press today, and a former book with the visible hairlines to show the problem.

     

    It must be a known bug, but I had hoped that an Adobe representative would join the conversation and comment on what to do, and if it is being worked on for CS5. There is no use for a function like inside stroke, if it is doing something like this.

     

    CS4 int., Mac, os 10.6

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 9:49 AM   in reply to philking

    I am having the same problem with this issue, not happy it seems to be so well known, but no fix has been made...following is the post I made to a different place on Adobe website.

     

    "I work at a print company. We received an InDesign file from a customer  for a big print job. there is a full background image, mostly knocked  out with a white-filled box, and other art and text elements as  needed.  The problem seems to be that all the picture boxes have a 3 pt  white stroke, aligned to the inside, but the stroke is NOT knocking out  the picture all the way out to the box bounds - a very fine line of the  image shows up at the outside box edge, at most but not all preview  percentages, and has carried over into high res pdfs and on through our  plate rip system to all the plates before anyone saw it AND we found out  the customer did NOT want it. Fortunately the job is not printed.  We  cannot help but consider this a glitch in the program.  As the default  alignment for strokes is centered, and only former QuarkXPress  (trademark) users, as is this creative, probably would want the inside  align, this may not come up very often. However, QXP does crop pictures  to the center of the line for trap and related purposes, and InDesign  does not seem to.  HELP!!..  We have covered up the edges so we can  continue with the job, but NO ONE is happy about this."

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 10:18 AM   in reply to BarbLovesInDesign

    I share your frustration that there isn't any response from Adobe on this.

     
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    May 26, 2010 10:23 AM   in reply to Jason Mohr

    What exactly do you expect in terms of a response? The bug is reported and in the system for repair. I'm surt it's been assigned a priority level which may or may not be as high as users who've been bitten feel it deserves. That's the case with all bugs -- some are considered more serious than others, especially when there is no known workaround, and some don't get fixed right away, if at all.

     
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    May 26, 2010 10:53 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Thanks for your response. How should we have known it was in the system for repair?

     
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    May 26, 2010 11:05 AM   in reply to Jason Mohr

    I suppose I assumed that someone at Adobe would at least monitor these posts, it seems to me to be a good way to find out what is bothering your CUSTOMERS!!!

     

    THIS THREAD STARTED ALMOST A YEAR AGO.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 11:05 AM   in reply to Jason Mohr

    Well perhaps I've made a bad assumption that one of you folks who was affected actually reported it: Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

     

    It won't hurt to do it again, but don't expect any response unless the engineers need more details.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 11:15 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    OK, I reported it, thanks for the link.

     

    How deep into the support stuff did you have to go to find the bug request page? or did you just know it was there.  The support pages start off with activation/ordering issues, then refers to user forums - that's what I got out of it, so that is where I went.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 11:18 AM   in reply to BarbLovesInDesign

    Indeed there are Adobe employees who monitor the forums on their own time, but remember, these are user-to-user forums, not a line to tech support or the ID development team. It's overly optimistic though to presume that any particular thread has been seen, or that an employee feels the problem is severe enough to be actively pursued when so few users have posted about it. The official form is always the best way to report a bug.

     

    I see Noel suggested making the frame slightly larger. I thought I remembered someone else posting that enlarging the image itself very sightly also solved the problem, so perhaps there are two threads about this.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 11:23 AM   in reply to BarbLovesInDesign

    BarbLovesInDesign wrote:

     

    OK, I reported it, thanks for the link.

     

    How deep into the support stuff did you have to go to find the bug request page? or did you just know it was there.  The support pages start off with activation/ordering issues, then refers to user forums - that's what I got out of it, so that is where I went.

    Wow. I've had that link bookmarked for years, and it looks like it's completely disappeared off the support pages in the latest Adobe.com incarnation. I don't see any way you'd find it on your own.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 11:30 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    hehe. thanks for that Peter. I just spent the last 30 minutes trying to see if I could land there some other way. I really don't see anything in their "knowledge base" about this issue either, so there's really no way for us little "users" to get much here outside of posting to this forum and hoping someone notices.

     

    Further, if there was a way to see that it had already been reported as a bug, I wouldn't have posted here in the first place. I started by attempting to find out if it was already a "known issue" with no success, so I ended up here.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 11:31 AM   in reply to Jason Mohr

    I'll try to be more diligent about posting the bug form link earlier. I'm actually quite surprised one of us didn't do it last year.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 11:34 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    do you know if there's a way to search existing bug reports or see the status of any known issues?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 11:35 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    So, who do we lobby to get the link more prominent in the support pages?

     

    I could see the situation developing where many users go to the bug fix request for things that aren't really bugs, and the system maybe got overloaded.

     

    Last I looked into the support stuff, at least some of the contact methods required buying a support plan, or other monetary considerations. Money is getting tighter and tighter, and any request for paid support tends to put me off of the whole thing. OK, so this is sort of an "all or nothing" reaction, but time gets limited too, and frustrations pile up quickly.

     

    As for changeing the stroke weight, we did test that, just a bit, did not matter.  The only thing I can think of is to crop the picture to just fit inside the bounds, not to or beyond the edges, and that will fly like a lead balloon.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 12:24 PM   in reply to Jason Mohr

    Jason Mohr wrote:

     

    do you know if there's a way to search existing bug reports or see the status of any known issues?

    Unfortunately not for mere mortals like us.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 12:30 PM   in reply to BarbLovesInDesign

    I can't say that I've ever seen this in my own work, so I don't really know what to tell you. I'd consider selectinghte image, not the frame, and scaling to 99.5% or 100.5 % and see if it works. That sort of thing is scriptable so could be done fairly automatically.

     

    The best place to compaliin about the bug form link is probably http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/contact.html on the feedback tab. And guess what, the link to the bug form is on that page, too. Go figure...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 1:04 PM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Glad you found the bug report page.  How long did that take you?  OK, so I get impatient.

     

    As for the issue, if one is determined to have "inside-aligned" frames around cropped images, perhaps having one box, sized appropriately, for the image, then copy/paste in place, frame the box, and delete the picture.  Just have to make sure the picture box's bounds are smaller than the frame box. Again, problem "disappears", but is not fixed.  Probably get another "lead balloon" response from creatives, too.

     

    I tried some differently-colored frames, but problem seems to persist, just most visible with "PAPER" or any other "white".

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 1:19 PM   in reply to BarbLovesInDesign

    Finding the bug report link was entirely accidental -- I wanted to collect the link to the Adobe.com feedback page for you so you could complain about not being able to find the bug link, and bang, there it was on the same page. Not terribley intuitive in some ways, but I suppose a bug report IS feedback.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2010 2:54 PM   in reply to Peter Spier

    I've just written a javascript which I think will solve the problem. It will adjust the size and position of all inside-aligned stroked frames after switching the stroke alignment to "centered."

     

    So, you can continue to use inside-alignment if you want to during the design phase, and then convert those frames before you pass the document on or print/export it.

     

    The script seems to work on regular frames like rectangle and ellipses in both CS4 and CS5. I suspect it will also work in CS3. It currently does not properly adjust the corner radius of rounded rectangle, but could be made to do so. Anyone interested can send me an email, and I'll be happy to send it to you... (Click on my name for the address.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 3, 2012 2:17 PM   in reply to philking

    Hate to say it, but here it is Dec. 2012, and I've just been bitten by this bug.  Creative Cloud subscriber (so CS6) with all updates installed.  Was it fixed at one point, and now popped back up?  Peter does your script work on CS6?

     

    sample-stroke-error.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 3, 2012 2:25 PM   in reply to Gavin Farrington

    If it doesn't work directly, it can probably be made to work by running froma subfolder marked with the correct version number. It won't hurt a bit to contact Peter T to ask about it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 3, 2012 2:25 PM   in reply to Gavin Farrington

    Hi Gavin,

     

    I don't know that the bug (or, is it a "feature?") was ever fixed. The script was written and tested with CS4. The most recent version of CS with which I've tested it is CS 5, or possibly 5.5. I have not tested in CS6, but am guessing that it will work.

     

    Script attached. Please let me know if it doesn't work, and I'll have a look...

    --

    Peter Truskier

    Premedia Systems, Inc.

    Berkeley, CA USA

    1-510-495-6442

    http://www.premediasystems.com

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 3, 2012 2:30 PM   in reply to Peter Truskier

    Peter,

     

    Attachments are disabled -- have been for quite awhile. You'll need to provide a link.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 3, 2012 2:38 PM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Just in the process of figuring that out when your message arrived. Thanks, Peter.

     

    Here is a link:

     

    <http://www.premediasystems.com/downloads/MakeInsideStrokesCentered.jsx .zip>

     

    Cheers,

    --

    Peter Truskier

    Premedia Systems, Inc.

    Berkeley, CA USA

    1-510-495-6442

    http://www.premediasystems.com

     
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