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Revive GoLive - Interested Parties Only

Nov 4, 2009 10:04 AM

  Latest reply: sonofmrsnak, Apr 3, 2014 9:37 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2010 4:45 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    Of all the things in the world to complain about...after months and months we've still got somebody heckling us about a GREAT program.

     

    The news flash is that we're not going to change our minds about GoLive. So heckle away..............

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2010 8:05 AM   in reply to AlleyCatSmith

    diloretta wrote:

     

    Of all the things in the world to complain about...after months and months we've still got somebody heckling us about a GREAT program.

    Diloretta, are you really so ignorant? I'm not heckling you. I'm telling you that if you want your voice to be heard, CONTACT ADOBE DIRECTLY. Linda has distracted you with this impotent thread where Adobe pays no attention.

     

    EDIT: I just answered my own question with this thread from diloretta.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2010 10:00 AM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    blah, blah, blah

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 9, 2010 9:20 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    Yes.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2010 8:56 PM   in reply to LRK 2

    First off, I know Adobe is never going to revive GoLive.  Their business is based on serving creative people, yet they abandoned them by going to Dreamweaver.  Oh well, I would happily abandon them too if there were decent competitors to their other apps.

     

    My question though is has any GoLive Mac users here switched to another app and become happy with it?

     

    I've spent two weeks with Dreamweaver and even though I can use just about any other program put in front of me, it makes no sense to me as it was built with a coder mindset, which I do not have.  It's like using Excel in place of InDesign to make a newsletter, only far worse. 

     

    So any suggestions as to whom I can give my money since Adobe no longer wants it from me?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2010 6:18 AM   in reply to AlleyCatSmith

    diloretta wrote:

     

    Of all the things in the world to complain about...after months and months we've still got somebody heckling us about a GREAT program.

     

    The news flash is that we're not going to change our minds about GoLive. So heckle away..............

     

    It's not heckling, it's frustration that few people here are listening to the reality she is laying down. And not only am I in complete agreement with her reasoning as far as the business end is concerend, I would also encourage anyone here who hasn't to look at GoLive 9. It's not as impenetrable as Dreamweaver, surely, but speaking as someone who first used the software when it was GoLive Cyberstudio, it looks to me that with GoLive 9 Adobe has clearly lost its way. And if that's where it was headed, then I think putting it down was the only humane thing to do.

     

    But man I hate Dreamweaver. I don't even know where to begin. My son says it's easy, but he's 17 and clearly is just plain nuts.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2010 6:25 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    Wish I could have gotten it. Don't mean to derail the thread, but is it Intel compatible? That's why I upgraded to GoLive 9 form CS after having been out of the game a while. Boy did I regret that wasted $200.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2010 6:41 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    LRK 2 wrote:

     

    TheTSArt wrote:

     

    My question though is has any GoLive Mac users here switched to another app and become happy with it?

     

    Unless you are ready to switch to a CMS setup like Joomla or Drupal, Dreamweaver is your best option.

    A CMS is not a design application. CMS stands for "content management system". A CMS can only replace the site management and template/component functions of GoLive.

     

    There's been a bunch of noise in this thread that probably distracted from the list of alternatives. Scroll back through this topic to find several options. A Mac-based designer may want to look to Adobe Fireworks, MediaLab's SiteGrinder, or Softpress' Freeway Pro.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2010 6:55 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    LRK 2 wrote:

     

    You are not derailing the thread. This is all good information… and it keeps this thread alive. Who knows if a developer might come along and decide he/she wants to pursue an option that might be at least similar to GoLive. Or preferably that Adobe might even reconsider down the road. I know it's doubtful, but it never hurts to put this kind of information out there.

    It does hurt if you do not tell people where they really need to go.

     

    I posted a link some time ago that listed several web editors. If you really want an application like GoLive, you'd contact the developers of those programs and tell them what features you'd like that are not already present. The specific features you seek are probably already there.

     

    When you say "Dreamweaver is your best option", you reveal that you have not given consideration to the alternatives. There are plenty of WYSIWYG design programs out there that mimic GoLive's ease of use for a designer that does not want to touch HTML.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2010 7:08 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    I use GoLive. That is why I am here.

     

    I also use Photoshop, Fireworks, Aptana, Dreamweaver, Firebug and Geany. I like these because they all do different things. I would never want to lock myself into a single tool. At that point I am just an operator of a program, not a web designer/developer.

     

    But it does not matter what I use as we all have our own unique way of working. I would not dare tell anyone which program they should use. We each need to shop around for a design tool that suits our own personal style.

     

    After looking at some of these other design tools, you may wonder why you bothered with either GoLive or Dreamweaver.

     

     

    ...to add to the Mac editor list, do not forget RapidWeaver or iWeb.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2010 8:46 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    LRK 2 wrote:

     

    These options are very limited, in my opinion.

    The last suggestion of apps was for people that did not like my previously suggested options. Are you saying the previously mentioned programs like Freeway Pro are too limited in your opinion as well? Freeway Pro seems like a perfect replacement for GoLive. It is designed much more like a page layout application with style sheets, an always accessible site window, built-in menu capabilities, and easy form processing. It does what GoLive failed to do (unless you also bought extra add-ons like NateMail and MenuMachine). GoLive seems clunky and ancient compared to modern WYSIWYG editors for Mac.

     

    Check out some videos of the program in use:

    http://www.softpress.com/support/tutorials/

     

    LRK 2 wrote:

     

    It may not be perfect, but GoLive still rocks!

    So why does it need to be revived? And how is it not perfect?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 13, 2010 5:43 PM   in reply to LRK 2

    Well I don't know why, but since there is an upgrade option from GoLive 8 or 9 to Dreamweaver CS4, I went ahead and took the plunge and upgraded. As has been said, the future--if you're going to stick with Adobe--is Dreamweaver. I actually used it years ago around version 2 or 3 or whatever back in the Mac OS 8 days when Macromedia owned it, and it has definitely evolved to say the least.

     

    Anyway, the interesting tidbit I picked up while working through the Dreamweaver tutorials was that Adobe seems to have updated GL 9 as a stepping stone of sorts for the transition to Dreamweaver. This explains a lot about why GL 9 isn't what it coulda/shoulda been. The plan wasn't to make a better GoLive. The plan was to move people away from GoLive to Dreamweaver using GoLive itself as transitional bridge. This suggests to me that Adobe planned on killing GoLive for quite a while prior to the announcement of its discontinuation. Seems like GoLive was marked for death a long time ago. If that's true, it sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have a hard time believing Adobe would market GoLive 9 as The Ultimate Transition Tool to Dreamweaver. I'm not sure I would have plunked down my $199 upgrade fee if I'd known this was their intention for the software.

     

    Then again, how smart can I be? I just plunked down $199 to upgrade from GoLive 9 to Dreamweaver CS4. Adobe gets their $400 no matter what. Shame on them for preying on fools!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 23, 2010 8:33 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    Revive GoLive — I hate change so I would love it!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2010 3:00 PM   in reply to LRK 2

    Hi,

    Who here's going to the CS5 thing on April 12? I assume I got invited because of this thread.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2010 3:55 PM   in reply to LRK 2

    Don't know if you can see this - taken from my email - guess its the new CS with the new Dreamweaver. If you can see it, sign up.

     

     

    http://csbuzz.adobe.com/?trackingid=FDKPN

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 14, 2010 9:07 PM   in reply to LRK 2

    Yes.  Yes, I think GoLive deserves another incarnation.

     

    I manage many sites and use GoLive cs2.  It's so easy to use and surprisingly productive.  I appreciate the built-in warnings and extra information, as one user here mentioned, the red broken link bug.  Oh, that's a Wonderful Asset!  And that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as features in GoLive CS2.

     

    I used Dreamweaver briefly, for about a week.  It was too clunky after the ease of GoLive.  I need to get the work done.

     

    When I first saw Adobe pushing the idea "How to change your GoLive website to Dreamweaver" I was sickened.  No, no no no.

     

    Love GoLive's whip select.  Lends to the program's sleek interface.  Why hadn't anyone else thought of this?  Is the whip a feature designed by the Original German developer?  Those Germans.

     

    since Adobe doesn't want the program anymore and won't support their GoLive Customers they may as well set it free.  Or allow another company to develop it to its full potential.

     

    Not bashing Dreamweaver but there was a reason it was always the cheaper program.

     

    -- Please don't bother telling me the same things I read above. I know a good thing when I use it.

     

    BTW You can buy GoLive CS2 online for about 50, with prices ranging up to and over $200.

     

    Message was edited by: summer1934:  Other web editing programs I have used: a heavily-tweaked version of HomeSite in the late 90s, Joomla (very frustrating), FrontPage, but just once (oh dear!  messy!).  Throughout this time I learned Photoshop, so was ultimately attracted to GoLive for its Photoshop integration, and never looked back.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 15, 2010 6:58 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    People... don't worry. I have been in front of a Mac since 1987. When the Mac started taking off everyone thought that designers would be obsolete because everyone would be able to do their own design.Well, unfortunately (or fortunately for us designers) it didn't have a Graphic Designer button included. So, people started doing their own things, or getting their secretaries to do them, and realizing that it was ugly as sin. The same thing has happened with the Web. A lot of the sites on the Internet are ugly as sin because they are just horrible. That's OK. My clients come to me because that is what they don't want. They still want the custom design and the pampering I give them. That is what they are paying for.

     

    If Adobe is finally making Dreamweaver more user friendly, I welcome it. That is why I wouldn't use it. It has always had that webmaster feel to it. Not a program for designers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 16, 2010 12:18 PM   in reply to LRK 2

    This thread to revive GoLive is rather amazing. I'm saying this not as a GL user but as someone well-versed in the battle you are facing and in the discussions in these three pages of posts. I've read every one of them and the spirit is identical to the Adobe FreeHand forums where I wandered over from. Adobe latest FreeHand MX upgrade, Would you pay?

     

    Let me throw in my 2¢ here. I'm on the founding team at FreeFreehand.org and we have amassed over 5000 members to give FreeHand a future, just as you are wanting for GoLive. While this forum is vitally important to gather interest and users, it is a closed system that will not reach Adobe management in the way you think. The comment made by Marian is dead-on right that Adobe must be petitioned directly and that is a lesson we FreeHanders learned over time. Linda is also right to have started an outside site at ReviveGoLive.com to gather, coordinate and contribute to other GL users as it will give you the freedom to expand beyond the confines here. This can work for you with a few dedicated souls and building your user base by outreach into the web community. It doesn't matter that Dreamweaver is the industry standard, the fact is GoLive was mothballed by Adobe and if you want it released, shout for it in public, not here. I can say that there isn't a FreeHand user at our site that wouldn't sympathize and encourage your mission ahead. Go for it!

     

    Here's a consideration; petition for an open-source GoLive under Adobe auspices. As I presented on the FreeHand Forums, open source is a strong possibility for Adobe to take since the same VP who oversees FreeHand and GoLive also manages the entire Creative Suite 5. Replace FreeHand with GoLive as you read:

     

    If you’re not aware of Adobe management, the man in charge of Adobe’s Creative Business Unit (i.e. Creative Suite CS5) is V.P. John Loiacono. He joined Adobe in 2006 after the Macromedia merger and he oversees FreeHand MX along with the rest of the Creative Suite applications. John came directly from Sun Microsystems which is VERY significant because he was the guy that helped to open-source the Solaris operating system. Not to mention that Sun’s StarOffice is directly linked to OpenOffice and thus NeoOffice for Mac; both of which are open source. Do a search of his name and “open source” together and notice what pops up.


    Back in 2007, John wrote an Adobe blog post that showed his affinity for open source and the Adobe business model of “integration” that would prevent it. His blog seemed relevant at the time but today, Adobe is trying to keep up with fast moving trends and seems desperate not to be seen as a dinosaur (like with Flash?)  While he accepts the Adobe model of integration, he also says of open source, “I come from a company that believes strongly in open source . . . in the right circumstances, I absolutely believe in the model.” and he adds, “ ... open source software can be a perfect solution. It's just not right for everything. Or for everyone - like many creative professionals who are on deadline and prefer to innovate vs. integrate.” Note that “innovate” refers to open source and “integrate” refers to Adobe’s business model; an interesting distinction. There is more and I suggest reading his blog yourself:
    http://blogs.adobe.com/johnnyl/2007/08/innovate_or_integrate_3.html


    John Loiacono could be an important key to open up Adobe for testing the open source model and what better program than with FreeHand MX. With an Adobe “sponsored,” open-source FreeHand, they can still protect the FreeHand patents they need for Flash/Fireworks/Illustrator and yet have the innovation that comes from the open-source community.

     

    Of course Adobe could sell off GoLive as easily. Regardless, what you want is a future that probably won't ever exist under Adobe's lineup but might in other ways. If it's any help on the importance of direct petitioning, our membership is presently doing a mass mailing of key Adobe executives this month and we've hired a top PR firm for public exposure. Plus the irony is that Adobe is upset that Flash isn't being allowed by Apple and feeling shut-out of the market. Isn't that how you've felt?

     

    Good luck with all of you.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 17, 2010 7:10 PM   in reply to LRK 2

    Linda, you're welcome.

     

    I understand the seeming magnitude of this appears to be a lot and you wouldn't want to "revive" GoLive without some partners to share the duties. But a good place to start is simple; find out the size of the GL user base and the interest. Set up a link on your site that simply collects email addresses from users and see how big it gets. Advertise it on all GoLive sites and help forums. If it's a handful then it isn't worth it. But if it gets into thousands, then you have a reason to go on to save GL and you will definitely attract partners to share the task.

     

    Read our story here for how we began: http://www.enrichdesign.com/fhblog/

     

    Best of luck.

     

    Mark

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2010 8:05 AM   in reply to maeric

    Before we get further confused about "open source"...

     

    Look at the open source technologies currently in use to understand the future. A technology company only offers open source options if it will feed back to their commercial interests. GL and FH are not commercial interests. Such an open source app (if it would ever exist) would feed back into DW and IL.

     

    Selling off or giving away any application while dancing around patents will leave a product like swiss cheese. Adobe would degrade and slice up a divested application so much that it would be nothing like it was and would push users to consider Adobe's fuller-featured commercial product (Dreamweaver/Illustrator). Adobe will never release a product to a competitor without facing the  wrath of shareholders.

     

    Freefreehand.org has done well to show the massive number of people interested - and to also show the complete lack of action with that massive number of people. The only way for users to steer Adobe is with money. You can either boycott the purchasing of DW and IL (not likely to even make a dent in sales) or buy controlling stock of Adobe (if you have that kind of money, you're not likely using GL or FH).

     

    maeric wrote:

    Note that “innovate” refers to open source and “integrate” refers to Adobe’s business model; an interesting distinction.

     

    Look at Inkscape, Sodipodi, sk1, KompoZer, Nvu...  There's little innovation there from these open source apps. They're playing catch-up to Adobe. While it is true that there's been some innovative features in GIMP and Cinepaint that appeared before they appeared in Photoshop, Adobe's closed source, commercial apps for vector drawing and web design have always been ahead of any similar open source project.

     

    John Loiacono's blog ended in early 2008. The last post regarded software as a service. Look at the online services for Acrobat.com and Photoshop.com. It will be no surprise if Adobe also offers an easy to use web page service like many others currently offer (Google Sites, Yahoo! Web Hosting, WordPress, etc...) The web design customers that you served just last year now have the ability to make their own web site in a matter of hours (at at little or no cost). The many available templates that can be easily customized with logos and the users' own graphics put to shame the work I have seen from us (including myself) in this GoLive forum. It amuses me how many simple questions about web forms, menus, commenting/feedback and e-commerce are asked on the GoLive forum when these features are so simply handled in a modern CMS or hosted web service. Even Dreamweaver users are threatened by this software as a service.

     

    "Hold close to your guns and religion" or evolve/adapt. With the ever changing world of web design and development, it is unbelievable that anyone can recall or prefer the "good old days". A web designer from ten years ago could not survive today. Look to the future, set your sights higher, even above Dreamweaver.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 4, 2010 1:26 PM   in reply to LRK 2

    I would be interested in having some new versions of GoLive. The web is evolving and GoLive is a great package, but without any new versions, it will be a continued challenge. Dreamweaver is not the answer either if you have to relearn and redo so much starting over in some ways of thinking.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2010 2:16 AM   in reply to RSheasley

    Obviously actually Golive don't have any competitor in it's category, so

    it's really kitty to say "go and and use an other web app." Is there any that could use adobe files as components?... comon...

     

    So, first at all I had to change over a new machine with Win7 64 bit and so that Golive 9 had serious problem with refreshing windows.

     

    24 hours of to build my own bug fix for golive... I gonna publish it soon, otherwise you can still install a VM on top of win 7.

     

    However, my first tip is to build URGENTLY a website with all the work done to our days, unfortunately Adobe Exchange is not anymore available for Golive. And without it Golive is absolutely going to it's end because people don't have any support.

     

    http://www.golivecentral.com/ is powered by only a man, it's obviously not enough and if you really wan't do something, then help this man to update the site or better, write new actions and extensions... I see only people asking to revive Golive... you can revive it starting writing new stuff.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2010 6:26 AM   in reply to LRK 2

    having simply a domain does nothing.

    With the extensions a lot of work can be done and fixed.

    Such as the extension DeforceCSS fixes the  /*agl rulekind: base;*/ bug

    the redraw problem in win 7 and vista can simply fixed with an extension that intercepts the window events....

    (I only wrote a temporary external app that can be useful)

    and so on...

     

    what has to be done before is a good customer support site: full collection of module, script and extension as we had before.

     

    customer support first, for keeping existing customer base, without it forget it, everday golive will loose some user.

    And that's the reason why Adobe deleted Golive Exchange section.

    Giulio

     
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