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SynthMan65
SynthMan65
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How best to down-convert HD to SD?

Jan 30, 2010 11:01 AM

I am using Premiere Pro CS4 on a Mac and Snow Leopard.  I have some footage that was shot in HDV and given to me.  It was captured in Final Cut Studio and exported with the ProRez codec.  I wish to down-convert this footage to export to both an NTSC compliant DVD and stand alone QT files for the client.

 

I've noticed that with different codecs and aspect ratios that I can get varying results, especially banding issues in fast movement.  I've included 3 images that will hopefully depict what I'm seeing:

 

 

Below Image: Source window open and I have choosen QT NTSC Widescreen to match aspect rations (note that the hands are properly blurred)

 

Screen-shot-2010-01-30-at-1.42.49-PM.png

 

 

Below Image: Output window open (same settings as above) and you will notice that the hands have "banding" on them:

 

Screen-shot-2010-01-30-at-1.42.55-PM.png

 

 

Below Image: Output window open and this time I have choosen QT NTSC (non-widescreen) and you will notice the banding in the hands goes away but I get the black bars on top and bottom.

 

Screen-shot-2010-01-30-at-1.43.34-PM.png

 

So, how can I best convert this footage from it's 1920x1080 size to NTSC, maintain the aspect ration and loose the banding in the fast movements?

 

Thanks!

Steve

7232 Views   22 Replies   Latest reply: Jeff Bellune, Apr 21, 2010 4:15 PM
 
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  • Jeff Bellune
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    1. Jeff Bellune,
    Jan 30, 2010 11:11 AM   in reply to SynthMan65
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    1. Make sure your sequence settings match your source footage.
    2. Watch this: http://bellunevideo.com/tutorials/CS4_HD2SD/CS4_HD2SD.html

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • SynthMan65
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    2. SynthMan65,
    Jan 30, 2010 11:33 AM   in reply to Jeff Bellune
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    Jeff,

     

    Thanks for the link to the video - very enlightening!  A couple questions related to that video please.

     

    My footage when clicked on it shows as such in the project window: Movie, 1920x1080 (1.0), Alpha.  So I'm assuming 1.0 means Square pixels so I created a sequence to match that has the settings: Sequence, 1920x1080 (1.0) - is that correct to start with?

     

    Next, how do you know when to use Lower, Upper or Progressive fields in the settings?

     

    Thanks,

    Steve

     
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  • Harm Millaard
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    3. Harm Millaard,
    Jan 30, 2010 11:40 AM   in reply to SynthMan65
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    By using the same settings you used to shoot in: if you shot interlaced, use interlaced, if you shot P use progressive. For interlaced HD material it is UFF (upper field first).

     
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  • SynthMan65
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    4. SynthMan65,
    Jan 30, 2010 11:49 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard
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    Thanks - I was really trying to figure out how you would tell what footage was shot if you physically didn't shoot it and the information was not available to you.  Is there some utility you can run against footage to give you that sort of information or are you pretty much stuck with guessing at that point?

     

    Probably should have rephrased the question better.

     

    Steve

     
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  • idar lettrem
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    5. idar lettrem,
    Jan 30, 2010 11:56 AM   in reply to SynthMan65
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    Steve

    Jeff's instructions are very good.

    But SD Mpegs tend - in my opinion - to end up a bit soft.

    So - my advice on export

    - apply LEVELS 16-235

    - adjust luma 0.94- 0.95

    - apply a small amount of SHARPEN

     

     

    beware long render times - but it's worth it

     
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  • Curt Wrigley
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    6. Curt Wrigley,
    Jan 30, 2010 12:12 PM   in reply to SynthMan65
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    sjurick wrote:

     

    Thanks - I was really trying to figure out how you would tell what footage was shot if you physically didn't shoot it and the information was not available to you.  Is there some utility you can run against footage to give you that sort of information or are you pretty much stuck with guessing at that point?

     

    Probably should have rephrased the question better.

     

    Steve

    Many folk use Gspot to analyze footage.

     

    In Pr CS4, unfortunately it does not display any field info in the info panel or properties.  I wish it did.

     

    But; PR does know (or thinks it knows) the field information.   A trick to see what Pr thinks is the field info for a clip is to select the clip in the bin, right click and do "Interpret Footage".   You will see a section of the dialog box that allows you to change the field order.   What Pr chooses is what it thinks the footage is.

     

    All that said; Pr CS4 does a poor job downscaling HD interlaced footage.   If the original is Progressive, it does a much better job.   Checking "Max render quality" will help a lot, but makes it render much slower.

     
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  • Jeff Bellune
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    7. Jeff Bellune,
    Jan 30, 2010 12:19 PM   in reply to Curt Wrigley
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    What they said.

     

    BTW, GSpot isn't available for the Mac.  But MediaInfo is.  You can get reliable field order info from that.

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • T Mikel
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    8. T Mikel,
    Mar 21, 2010 6:00 PM   in reply to Jeff Bellune
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    Hi Jeff,

     

    Your HD to SD conversion video is great. Thanks!

     

    I've just upgraded to CS4 from CS3, but "Maximum Render Quality" is not one of the options present in the fly-out menu. Have I done something wrong during installation?

     

    Also, I have a Sony HDR-HC3, set up as 1080i. Which of your input modes would apply?

     

    Thank in advance for any help!

     

    Best regards,

     

    Tim Mikel

     
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  • Jeff Bellune
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    9. Jeff Bellune,
    Mar 22, 2010 7:36 PM   in reply to T Mikel
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    I think MRQ was added in an update.  Are you fully updated?

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • T Mikel
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    10. T Mikel,
    Mar 24, 2010 7:36 AM   in reply to Jeff Bellune
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    Hi Jeff,

     

    That did it, and the video looks great on my computer. However, do you have any idea why it won't work on either of my two players (one Blu-Ray the other standard, both R- compatible)?

     

    I greatly appreciate your assistance!

     

    Tim

     
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  • Jeff Bellune
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    11. Jeff Bellune,
    Mar 24, 2010 7:49 AM   in reply to T Mikel
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    Why a burned disc won't play on one or more hardware players is a topic that deserves its own thread, and probably in the Encore forum.

     

    That said, what are you using for blank media?  Brand makes a difference; I use Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim exclusively.  Avoid Memorex or store brands at all costs.

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • Bill Hunt
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    12. Bill Hunt,
    Mar 24, 2010 11:01 AM   in reply to Jeff Bellune
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    This FAQ Entry from the Encore forum might prove useful to supplement Jeff's comments.

     

    I also agree that this discussion would be best in the Encore forum. Besides Jeff's expertise, there are a few others, who do not post here. Thus, Encore issues can be addressed by a different group of subscribers.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • T Mikel
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    13. T Mikel,
    Mar 28, 2010 6:57 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt
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    Thanks Bill and Jeff for your replies!

     

    I probably should have indicated that I had already used the two brands of DVDs that I am using now for previous non-converted projects (one of which is Taiyo Yuden, the other Ridata) without any problems. Neither brand seems to work following the HD to SD conversion in my players, but seem fine in my computer. Any thoughts?

     

    Thanks!!

     

    Tim

     
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  • Bill Hunt
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    14. Bill Hunt,
    Mar 28, 2010 7:02 PM   in reply to T Mikel
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    Tim,

     

    In my many Projects, Taiyo Yuden is about as good as it gets. If you are using T-Y's, that should not be the problem.

     

    Not sure what else I have to offer.

     

    Hunt

     
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  • T Mikel
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    15. T Mikel,
    Apr 4, 2010 6:42 PM   in reply to Jeff Bellune
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    Hi Jeff,

     

    I probably should have told you that I had been able to burn both types of disks (Ridata and Taiyo Yuden) before I purchased my HD camcorder. Is there anything in the conversion process that would make the disks incompatible for use in my DVD players?

     

    Thanks for your help, and I hope I'm not becoming a pest!

     

    Best regards,

     

    Tim

     
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  • Bill Hunt
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    16. Bill Hunt,
    Apr 5, 2010 9:29 AM   in reply to T Mikel
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    With top-quality blank media, the burn speed can have an effect on playability in set-top players. I burn more slowly, than some folk do (without issue), but the general feeling is that about 1/2 of the max speed is the ideal - never max.

     

    One thing to remember is that no set-top player is certified to play ANY burned DVD's, but only replicated/pressed media. Most do, without issues, so long as the media is good and the burn not too fast, but some just flat will not. Newer units seem to do better than some older models. Also, though not as big a deal now, as it once was, the -R and +R types can still make a difference with older units.

     

    Beyond those thoughts, I cannot think of any other reasons for the behavior that you are seeing.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • PMVINC
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    17. PMVINC,
    Apr 21, 2010 12:13 PM   in reply to Curt Wrigley
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    Hello. I drop the "hidden" menu down and don't have the Max Render Q

    uality" just the other 3 settings. Any ideas?

    Kevin

     
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  • Jeff Bellune
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    18. Jeff Bellune,
    Apr 21, 2010 12:45 PM   in reply to PMVINC
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    Try a different workspace, or resetting your current workspace.

     

    If that doesn't work, then trash your preferences file:

    http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/2009/11/having_weird_behavior_wi th_an.html

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • T Mikel
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    19. T Mikel,
    Apr 21, 2010 12:45 PM   in reply to PMVINC
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    I asked Jeff Belune the same question a few weeks ago, and he told me that I needed make sure I had all of the updates installed. That did the trick!

     

    Tim

     
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  • Jeff Bellune
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    20. Jeff Bellune,
    Apr 21, 2010 12:48 PM   in reply to T Mikel
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    Good call, Tim.  Max Render Quality wasn't added until a later update to Pr 4.0.0.  It may only be in 4.2.1.

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • T Mikel
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    21. T Mikel,
    Apr 21, 2010 2:01 PM   in reply to Jeff Bellune
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    Thanks for the compliment Jeff,

     

    It's extremely rare when I'm the one giving advice!

     

    By the way, the trick with ImgBurn did not allow me to play my T-Y disk on either of my DVD players (still works on my computers). I thought that perhaps I had make an error in recording or capturing (I am using a Sony HDR-HC3, HDV 1080i), and I went through some of my Premiere settings and preferences. That's when I noticed that my clips were 1440 X 1080 at 29.97 fps (note that during conversion, I used your settings for 1920 X 1080 at 30 fps),

     

    Could this impact my ability to convert properly and perhaps cause some of these player problems? And, if so, is there a fix for my project, or, at least a lesson for future recordings or capture? Or is the output from my camcorder just incompatible with with your conversion process (i.e. 1080i vs. 1080p)?

     

    As always, thanks for your astute advice,

     

    Tim

     
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  • Jeff Bellune
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    22. Jeff Bellune,
    Apr 21, 2010 4:15 PM   in reply to T Mikel
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    How old is your standard DVD player?  Older players may choke on burned DVDs.

     

    Have you updated the firmware in your BD player?  Does your BD player manual state that it will play burned discs?

     

    As a last resort, try burning at a slower speed - no more than half the rated speed of the media or the burner, whichever is lowest.

     

    -Jeff

     
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