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4strings4lp
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Techinical Support: Very Frustrating!

Mar 2, 2010 12:43 PM

Sorry kids, just have to vent a minute about Adobe Audition assistance...

I started with sending an email about my issue with Audition and received a fairly quick response in the form of a pdf file. Cool. Except their "simple resolution" was beyond obvious and one that I've already tried...several times.  I decided to call tech support for a live person who could talk me through something that I might be missing.  After spending more than five minutes getting the tech to understand my name is Tommy not Tammy he decided to send me to a specialist that will help me resolve my issue with Audition.

So, after wasting the better part of an hour on the phone with a "technical expert" I still do not have a resolution to my issue.  There are so many things wrong with tech support for Audition that my head is spinning.  I'm sure India has some very talented workers, I'm very sure the folks of India work for pennys a day. But, I'm sorry after being transfered several times to get me to the best "expert" to assist with my signal input issue, after explaining it very slowly three times, their experts best suggestion was to try un-docking or to maximize the level meter. WHAT??????

I need to know why I'm unable to control my input signal in multi-track mode not how to move the level meter!!

To top it all off, this technical expert disconnected the call.  Accidentally? If so, that's scary for someone who is supposed to be a technical expert with Adobe products, software and technology.  On purpose? If so, flippin' shame on her, shame on Adobe.

I lilke Adobe products but this is just wrong.  We're failing economically here in California, just like the rest of America, and for a San Jose California company to send jobs to India while our unemployment is at double digits is just wrong.  And to top it off, from my experiences, these "experts" are clueless.

I've wasted my time, still don't have a resolution to my issue and I'm very disappointed in Adobe on so many levels.

 
Replies
  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Oct 26, 2006
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    Mar 2, 2010 3:34 PM   in reply to 4strings4lp

    tommsisco4 wrote:


    We're failing economically here in California, just like the rest of America, and for a San Jose California company to send jobs to India while our unemployment is at double digits is just wrong.  And to top it off, from my experiences, these "experts" are clueless.

    I've wasted my time, still don't have a resolution to my issue and I'm very disappointed in Adobe on so many levels.

    Just FYI, the part of Adobe that develops Audition is in Seattle. Apparently the helpdesk only has scripts to work from at the best of times, and despite what they claim, their 'specialists' have to work with a lot of different apps. I have no idea where their helpdesk is actually based, although if you think it's in India, that wouldn't be utterly surprising, I suppose. I've never called it, so I can't comment from any personal experience, but there have certainly been quite a few complaints about it here before. It's pretty small comfort knowing that you're not alone though...

     

    You could try posting here - you'd be surprised at what we can actually fix without any recourse to the helpdesk at all!

     
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    Mar 2, 2010 3:51 PM   in reply to 4strings4lp

    Good afternoon,

     

    My name is Durin and I'm on the engineering team for Audition and Soundbooth.  I wish I could protest and say you were wrong about Adobe technical support, and while I CAN say it has improved some over the last six months, it is still FAR below our expectations.  The end of August, Adobe released an official apology to customers for the problems associated with support and customer service.  A bit ago, many of us sat in on a discussion detailing why many of the problems occurred and what steps were being taken to resolve this.  I'm hopeful, if not still a bit wary, that the proposals will be effective in improving support, and I'll continue to monitor progress, both by official internal metrics and what my users are reporting here in the forums or via e-mail.

     

    I've maintained a semi-regular presence here in the user forums for several years, but I've certainly been trying to devote more time helping answer questions and document issues as the telephone support experience degraded.  I come from a call-center/support background myself, and firmly believe that even the best product needs proper support and service.  Hour-long hold times, perpetual transfers, and sudden hang-ups are absolutely unacceptable, not to mention being unfamiliar with the application supported.  I will make sure our marketing and support managers see your message and understand this is not an isolated incident.

     

    I know your support issue is being addressed via e-mail by another member of the development team, so I won't tackle it here unless other users have the same question.  I just wanted to let you, and others in this forum, that those of us on the product teams are on your side and are actively working towards making support a better experience for everyone.  In the future, I highly recommend technical questions be submitted to this forum rather than a phone call.  We've got some highly intelligent, very skilled Audition users and audio experts who visit here and are quick to offer solutions for most problems that people run into.

     

    Sincerely,

    Durin Gleaves

    Adobe Audition and Soundbooth

     
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    Mar 3, 2010 4:48 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Full marks for Durin's honest and detailed response but to be fair I think you could take the ops post and replace Adobe's name with just about any large organisation's name and it would be just as accurate.  To be fair to the help desk people they are not generally power users or even users but work from 'scripts' - does that make it right or even better.  Of course not.  Does it mean that the help desk doesn't resolve problems no because they do - just not yours - which does make things very frustrating.

     

    But as SteveG said this is the place - if you can't get an answer here I'd be surprised.

     

    Quite frankly in this day and age I would have thought between Google & the product forums the help desk is the last place to go :-)

     
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    Mar 3, 2010 7:49 AM   in reply to 4strings4lp

    Actually this forum isn't all that great.

     

    The main people that answer questions (durin is semi-cool btw but doesn't answer many questions) the main people steve-g and that others junior software writer they will give you an answer just not necassarily to the question you asked, and very vague.

     

    They like to basically try to sound intelligent and know-it-all ish...but that's the exact opposite of what people want when they ask a question, they want a very specific answer, see the thread about how to make a unique copy for a good example.

     

    They never just cut to the chase and give the straight deal, they dance around like morons because they don't know the answer but of course they think they know everything so they just keep talking because they like to hear themselves (or see what they've typed).

     

    If you want an answer you have to basically look for it yourself by playing with the program combined with readin teh manual. even with something very basic like making a unique copy, but 1 might be able to be of some assistance from time to time.

     
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    Mar 3, 2010 8:29 AM   in reply to 4strings4lp

    While I appreciate Adobe's pledge to do better, the reality is that individual telephone and email tech support for mainstream products (like Adobe software) has been a trainwreck, no matter what software or hardware company you're talking about, since the 1990s. I wouldn't waste my time calling except as a last resort, especially if a firm has a good forum support system or if the product is popular enough that it gets forum support on other websites.  I'd rather take my chances that either the question has already been asked and answered (by far the most likely outcome), or that 20 knowledegeable users will see my question and one just may happen to remember how to do what I need to do, than hope the one techie I happen to hit up in the company or outsourced knows what to do.

     

    Telephone and email tech support is a very inefficient and an extremely expensive way for companies to help customers and nobody does it consistently well. Some companies (especially some small firms) do it better than others, but the overall solved-and-highly-satisfied customer rate is going to be low at even the best firms.  Granted, there are issues that crop up that cannot be dealt with on forum boards, but this is a rare situation. I don't think it's an accident that the calling experience is so unpleasant.  Most companies want to discourage you from calling when you need help.  They want you to think, "That was a waste of time last time.  I'd better look around for help some other way.  Maybe they have a help forum."

     

    Part of the reason knowledgeable users get treated like Dummies when they call or email is that a large portion of callers just couldn't be bothered to RTFM or otherwise suffer from basic competency issues, so the company has to start assuming you are a Dummy until proven otherwise.  If they escalated everybody calling for help to one of the very few top experts the firm has in a product right away, nobody who really needed them would be able to get through.

     

    While in a perfect world we could call a company and with minimal hold time get through to an expert who would solve the problem very quickly, the reality is that any product that offered that would have to hire and train, train, train a lot more people.  It would therefore cost many times over what it now costs and would not be price-competitive with the competition providing poor support.  I'm sure some people say, "I'd pay it!," but no, hardly anybody would.  There's a reason there's been a race to the bottom in service.  Nearly everybody would rather pay less, or nothing at all.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Mar 3, 2010 9:57 AM   in reply to Ned43

    Ned43 wrote:

     

    Actually this forum isn't all that great.

     

    It was a lot better before you started posting your abuse on it, which I suppose we will now get some more of...

     

    The main people that answer questions (durin is semi-cool btw but doesn't answer many questions) the main people steve-g and that others junior software writer they will give you an answer just not necassarily to the question you asked, and very vague.

     

    They like to basically try to sound intelligent and know-it-all ish...but that's the exact opposite of what people want when they ask a question, they want a very specific answer, see the thread about how to make a unique copy for a good example.

     

    Since you make it very clear that you've read very little, if any, of the threads and posts in this forum, your comments are irrelevant. All of the people who answer questions on it do so voluntarily - and none of us have any need of your abuse at all, quite frankly.

     

    And in the main, if you give very simple answers to questions, you get all the supplementary questions anyway - at least you do from intelligent people; I wouldnt expect them from you, of course. Since I've had rather more experience of this than you will ever have, I think you should quit arguing about it at this point before you make yourself look even more stupid.

     

    but 1 might be able to be of some assistance from time to time.

    That's given me the best laugh I've had all day. Please close the door on the way out...

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Mar 9, 2010 1:19 PM   in reply to 4strings4lp

    I have never ever known the developers (as opposed to the public face of support) to be anything less than as helpful as they can possibly be. Indeed they are pretty much the saving grace of the support situation with Adobe. I just hope that not too many people hit on them though, because that will inevitably slow down development! As Durin says, ask here first; if we don't know, they'll pick it up.

     

    As for Lexicon, IIRC there were threads about their drivers back in Syntrillium days! If you look in the AudioMasters archive, you'll probably still find them...

     
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    Mar 31, 2010 12:13 PM   in reply to 4strings4lp

    Yes, their Tech Support AND Customer Service are useless. If the issues that we currently face with our Adobe products are not resolved, I'll be making pirated copies of their software and handing it out on street corners OR I'll do my best to convince other users to use another product. Everyone needs to hold Adobe System accountable for their lack of support and force these morons to do something.

     

    I know, it sounds crazy, but when you pay thousands of dollars for apps and they do their best to screw you around, you tend to get a little frustrated.

     

    I've never had to deal with idiots like this anywhere else. I've been an Adobe app user since 1991 and their stuff has always been great - no big issues, until now.

     
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    Mar 31, 2010 10:13 PM   in reply to monck_guy

    Without defending any corporate executives whatsoever (who are pure scum for the most part) I do have a bit to say about "tech support"

     

    It's a losing battle, people have to understand.

     

    Human labor is a huge cost, even when outsourced to india.

     

    Audition is so intuitive that many people who can barely read can learn to use Audition.

     

    "tech support" I'm sure, is inundated with hundreds of calls from people who don't even know how to set up the basics of the program, that's really not tech supports problem at all as there isn't any problem with the program the problem is with the idiot caller who just started trying to rap over loops and wants to know how to make a hit record, but can't figure out the difference between mono and stereo and why they're should be one.

     

    Furthermore, the people that have Legitimate questions are many times more fluent in Audition than their tech support, most people who are experts at Audition simply do not work in India or wherever doing tech support, so while tech support may be familiar with the program somewhat they are sometimes in over their head when it comes to questions from Audition experts.

     

    Add to that the fact that some questions simply have no answer, tech support my spend a long time pursuing a question that in the end turns out to be either a bug in the system: bad o.s. install, some conflicting software or hardware, or a bug in Audition itself...the 2 former scenarios are also not technically the responsibility of "tech support" but probably end up spending some time with these issues.

     

     

    So remember, being that Audition has an interface who's basic functions can be halfway learned relatively quickly by an indigent, I'm sure that, considering how many dumb beginner questions they get, it's an uphill battle and sometimes their legs get weary so they decide to give it a rest.

     
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    Apr 1, 2010 12:16 PM   in reply to Mark Branch

    mark - here's my complaint about tech support:

     

    i call in to ask some questions about some specific problems that are occurring on our systems at work. i can usually handle any technical issue that we face, but sometimes, we all need help in one way or another. after all, none of us are infallible.

     

    when i call to ask them for some help, i get caught in this endless loop; a downward spiral of black hole proportions that none of them can even begin to fathom. of course, i have to trust them when they say "we can help you with that right now - may i share your screen please?" and when i finally do, the tier one agent begins to get lost on my system. long story short, i had to coach the agent as to what they were trying to do and then inform them that what they were doing was not going to work... that coupled with the fact that i asked for tech support for this product and they transferred me to acrobat support.

     

    so, unfortunately mark, this isn't a case of a user that has no idea they're doing. rather it's a case of support not knowing what they're doing.

     

    in closing, never assume without asking questions and fully understanding what the issue is.

     

    cheers

     
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    Apr 1, 2010 3:51 PM   in reply to monck_guy

    You sound a bit defensive there, or else you have trouble reading.

     

    As I clearly said, there is quite a few Audition user who fall into the catagory of knowing more about the program then the minimum wage receiving technical support.

     

    Why is it that people don't understand that you're not going to get experts when they're not paid like experts, and furthermore Adobe couldn't stay in business if they hired an army of experts to work in tech support for each and every one of their products, and paid them an expert salary.  It's just not an economically viable option, furthermore Audition isn't even one of their main products, but thankfully they have developed it somewhat.

     

     

    Question: Why would you even expect anyone, much less a low-paid tech support worker, to know your own system better then you do?  Shouldn't it be expected that you would have to guide them somewhat, and that it would take them some time to figure things out given that they have no familiarity with your particular system?  Furthermore, if you know your system and the program better then they do, why would you even turn to them unless you're requesting that the actual developers call you back when convenient for them (which I don't recommend, let them develop).

     

    Maybe if the problem is not with the program itself but with conflicts within your system that you can't get sorted out, then perhaps you should hire someone to come take a look at your entire setup and see where the conflicts may be arising.

     
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    Apr 1, 2010 5:49 PM   in reply to Mark Branch

    dearest mark,

     

    please understand that i'm not here to fight or be disruptive. what i said was never assume anything. you are right, i definitelty never expect anyone to understand any of my systems better than myself.

     

    what i was simply asking/stating was this - why, when i ask for audition tech support, would i be transferred to acrobat tech support? acrobat is acrobat. audition is audition. as i mentioned before, i (and many users) seem caught in a nasty downward spiral of tech support.

     

    that is the gist of my beef with tech support. their inability to understand simple requests.

     

    btw, my issue is now resolved and it had nothing to do with acrobat or my systems. the bug has been reported to the developers (spoke to one today).

     

    sorry if you misunderstood what i was trying to get at.

     

    cheers and good health.

     

    -j-

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 2, 2010 2:52 AM   in reply to monck_guy

    monck_guy wrote:

    what i was simply asking/stating was this - why, when i ask for audition tech support, would i be transferred to acrobat tech support? acrobat is acrobat. audition is audition.

     

    Adobe have answered this themselves before, although I don't think you'll like it very much. In the same terms that you expressed it, they say "Tech Support is Tech Support..."

     

    What it means is that tech support is process-based, not product based. None of the tech support staff are specialists in any individual bits of software at all - they all have to cover a range of products (in pretty much the same way as their 'evangelists' now have to*). So you get through to the part of the tech support team that deals with products starting with 'A'... And that, apparently, is cost-effective. They work from crib sheets, and I'm pretty sure that none of them actually have access to the software you're calling about at all. Even if they do, it's pretty much a waste of time, because you probably know more about it than they do anyway.

     

    All I can say about that situation is that if it wasn't for this forum and AudioMasters, Adobe tech support re. Audition would be mired in the deepest pile of stinking doodah imaginable, and they would have had to have done something about it. So it's rather perverse; the better we are, the worse Tech Support for the product can afford to be, and that extends to all other products too. Something is clearly wrong here, isn't it?

     

    *Audition used to have an 'product evangelist', but now he's just an evangelist. He came originally from Syntrillium, and used to specialise in using CEP/AA. Not any more, though. Jason now has to work with the entire Creative Suite, and for all I know, other stuff as well. Is that a good thing? Well, it is for Adobe, because as anybody who's seen him knows, he's a very personable and capable guy with amazing presentation skills, and who could probably sell you your own grandmother if he tried. Is it good for everybody else? Probably not, because you are going to have to wade through a lot of stuff before he gets around to Audition. But hey, that's okay because it's 'cost effective'... Downside for Jason is that he has way less free time than he used to have when he's abroad, so I virtually have to make a bloody appointment to see him now - if he ever gets here at all, that is. He used to get days off, fer chrissake - not any more!

     
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    Apr 2, 2010 3:26 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    Well these forums aren't so helpful from many people's perspective.  I believe there is a huge void on the internet, many recording programs have active forums where people have discussions about their general usage and techniques. That is where much valuable information is gathered by beginners as they read people discuss the different ways they use the program.  I feel that Audition is losing popularity from it's cool edit pro days and part of the problem is these forums, where nobody participates in any type of meaningful dialog between each other, it's too formal there's just people answering questions from time to time in the there own formal way which may or may not help but not really any true discussion threads other then the one about how the regulars hate this forum.

     

    The lack of activity on all the Audition forums is definetly holding it back as a product, when people go to every forum for that product on the internet and they're all ghost forums it raises red flags immediately when that shouldn't be the case since it's superior at what it does to most other software.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 2, 2010 4:43 PM   in reply to Mark Branch

    Well that's only your opinion. Which I suppose you're entitled to, however much fantasy you base it on.

     
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    Apr 2, 2010 7:34 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    It's based on reality, friend.  Take a look around and compare Auditon forums to ableton, cubase, pt et al....forums.

     

    If you don't see that what I'm saying is true, then you truly are delusional.  Perhaps you're a bit defenseive because you happen to be a moderator at one of these forums and don't want any blame shifted onto yourself for the lack of activity.  Is there a reason you have a guilty conscious?

     

    I imaging you're a bit heavy-handed and conservative as a moderator, the type to point out little rules and minor infractions of them, haha, that's a real turn off to most musicians.  People who are worried about little rules and regulations on a chat forum for christ sakes, get a life, get out a bit more and don't be so uptight.  Loosen up those cheeks mate.

     
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    Apr 2, 2010 7:43 PM   in reply to Mark Branch

    Hey good point - those other forums are really, really good  - so why don't you go hang out over there I'm sure they would love to have you and I know that they would appreciate your input way better than its appreciated here.

     

    Bye

     
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    Apr 2, 2010 8:17 PM   in reply to Suite Spot

    Actually I'm here to stay.  This forum needs people like me who actually give an honest effort to help people, especially with people like you running around not helping anyone and just trying to aggressively push their entirely flawed software that nobody uses.

     

    So, what's your next "get rich quick" scheme involving some piece of **** software you attempted to author but failed miserable yet still promote as if it's useful?  We're all dieing to know what's next. lol

     
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    Apr 2, 2010 8:24 PM   in reply to Mark Branch

    The only thing you were able to prove with your screen dumps is that you have no idea what you were talking about

    Not once were you able show any evidence of your claims

    Also its donationware which gives you the right to use it and if it you find it useful you are free to make a donation

    What it doesn't give you is the right to be abusive or a jerk

     
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    Apr 2, 2010 9:01 PM   in reply to Suite Spot
     
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    Apr 3, 2010 6:35 AM   in reply to Mark Branch

    rly!

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 4, 2010 2:31 PM   in reply to Mark Branch

    Mark Branch wrote:

     

    Actually I'm here to stay.  This forum needs people like me who actually give an honest effort to help people...

     

    But you don't - as several other threads, and a current points score of a big fat zero, reveal. You're a sham.

     
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    Apr 4, 2010 6:13 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    The only shame is the people over at Audio censors, with those ridiculous, informationless FAQ's.  It's no wonder this forum did away with them, they're of no use, the information is many times inaccurate or incomplete.  You ban people who expose valid questions about bugs in media sweeper, censoring the only really valuable information on your petty forum.   You reap what you sew and that's why nobody frequents audio censors except for a few losers who've you managed to convine you're an expert with laughable posts about rolling off high frequencies equaling the sound of a professional reel to reel.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 5, 2010 2:03 AM   in reply to Mark Branch

    Just two of your problems are that you have a lot of trouble coping with the truth, and with any concept of decent behaviour. I'm sure that you have several others as well to add to those, though - like lying through your teeth.

     
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    Aug 5, 2013 1:46 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    SteveG,

     

    I'm going to be very respectful to you, PERSONALLY.  And, respectfully, while it's not my job to do this, and my apologies, and kudos to you if it's not your job to listen to us complain, but I would think that if some PR, or Cust Svc VP @adobe.com wants to make some brownie points, they should read this entire thread, eat some humble pie, AND FIX THE PROBLEM no matter whose feelings get hurt!!

     

    However, the problem doesn't seem to be with most of the people, like you.  The problem is the CULTURE of the support.  Meaning, when we come to Adobe.com we have to go around the world 8X's just to simply state our issue.  What's more, it seems like EVERYTIME I come to just the Audition section (God forbid if I had to deal with any other products) every page is different from the last time I came, and I just go in circles.  I mean they're pretty pages, but honestly, JUST GET ME TO WHERE I NEED TO GO. 

     

    I mean, you have to admit, here's the KING of web design, and graphics, yet their own site is SOO discombobulated their own customers can't get done what they came here for.  It's the same culture at Google, cuz it's basically the same kinds of people.  It seems like they're a bunch of overly creative teenagers that just HAVE to express all of their cute little techy ideas, and don't they just look SOO cool!  They haven't ONE CLUE as to how it affects the end-user customer.

     

    As so many other musicians here, I go to ALL KINDS of forums every day, all over the internet, so I know what an EASILY accessible forum looks like.  For instance, Cakewalk, your competitor.  While there's things about their product that make me crazy, but if I want to go to their forum, it only takes 3-4 steps...MAX!  Click on their Community/Forums/My subforum/Login/...AND ASK MY FREAKIN' QUESTION!... DONE!!  If I want to search for a similar issue, I can, but I HAVE A CHOICE!  I don't have to be harrassed to do things YOUR WAY!  I'll give you a clear example from this very forum as to the opposite negative experience.

     

    In fact, the way I 1st saw your name was in a thread titled BeatMatching.  And while I got MOST of my question answered in the thread, there was still a minor question (that STILL lingers due to crappy forum design).  I tried to click on the poster of that response, and it gave me a list of the threads he'd posted on, I clicked on it, and it just took me right back where I was.  It didn't auto prompt me to SIGN IN; which I'd ALREADY done, but it kicked me out, just cuz I went to another page. 

     

    Someone well-grounded in customer service needs to sit down with these web content designers and say "Look, here's a list of what you need to provide to users to service THEIR needs...NOT YOURS.  Show them BIG, CLEAR Login buttons, BIG CLEAR links to get where THEY want to go.  If you want to suggest some helpful links AFTER they have posted, FINE!  If their issue gets resolved, give them a BIG CLEAR button that says so."  And Steve, Adobe has been like this for years.  So, by ALL MEANS, if they'd rather just let the natives settle issues by, and amongst themselves, I'm plenty good with that.  Just give us a decent arena to do it in!

     

    I hope I didn't offend you, and it does seem like the ones that DON'T need to hear our voice, are always the ones that do, and vice versa. Kinda like govt these days!

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Aug 5, 2013 2:34 PM   in reply to George Lea

    I'm not offended, but this is a three-years-old thread... has the situation with support changed? As far as I can tell, no. Has the website and the way it's accessed improved? No it hasn't altered at all. This is an Audition forum - it's about an audio editing product. Can you post a wav file on it to demonstrate something? No of course you can't - don't be silly! If I want to post a link, I have to edit it in the HTML editor to put something meaningful for people to click on - there's no option to enter a simple title at all otherwise. The web software is stuck firmly in the dark ages - probably for ever.

     

    So why did it all go quieter? Simply because the few people that wanted to rant about it finally gave up (in some cases, that was a good thing, right?). Maybe the scripts that the chatline people use have improved? I don't know - I've never rung one. Or is there a very large elephant in the room?

     

    There's more. At present we are sitting here with a program that has links into loads of other bits of Cloud software, and if questions about that aspect of it turn up, I simply can't begin to answer them because I don't use all that stuff - so I don't. End result? More developer presence here - and that is probably the only good thing that's happened.

     

    And incidentally, Cakewalk/Roland isn't a competitor as such. It's all music-creation based, and Audition is editing software. Audition can record music, but as such it doesn't create it. Yeah, that hacks a lot of people off. But even they've been a bit quieter recently...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 10, 2013 1:47 AM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    Yes, I think you really nailed it this time, Steve.

     

    The eternal motto of this forum should be,

     

    "we have given up".

     
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