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InDesign Backwards Compatibility in CS5 an MAJOR issue

May 18, 2010 7:01 AM

  Latest reply: Harbs., May 29, 2011 6:13 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 9:18 AM   in reply to peterpica

    peterpica wrote:

     

    No argument IF customer is willing to pay for the template, which most 

    of them probably will not be.

    If someone hires me to make a template it's the same as if they hire me to make a print-ready file. Why should it be free and why do you think they would expect that?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 9:23 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    What's wrong with sending InDesign files to someone else? I have lots of projects that need to be coloborated with clients, proof readers, other designers, freelance designers etc. that I send out and receive back fairly regularly. We all use the same version of InDesign. Because one day one of the proofreaders unknowingly opened a file in CS4 and then the INX backsaving didn't work and I had to spend a day fixing the problem.

     

    I could do with a backsave option. But I can get by without it.

     

    What I really want is Adobe to build into the files what version to open the files with. Like that Soxy program does.

     

    But dragging and dropping from Explorer into InDesign works, but only if I don't have the open document maximised.

     

    Dragging and dropping to indesign is ace, for opening files. I have all my folders where all my files are on my taskbar and I can access them much quicker this way when I need them in a hurry.

     

    Prior to InDesign CS5 being installed all the files opened in CS3 just fine. But now they all want to open in CS5 and I have to keep them at CS3 level to use with other people for the time-being.

     

    So I do want a way to save backward, and I do want Adobe to build into the files what version to open the files in.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 9:23 AM   in reply to peterpica

    In 15 years if I have a client who still needs version 2.0 files I'll continue to maintain a version 2.0 installation while I explain the benefits of upgrading to version CS14.

     

    I do have clients still on CS3, and they don't have the hardware to support CS5, or enough volume at the moment to support the purchase of both hardware and software, so they'll stay where the are for the time being. That will be fine until they come up against a project that can't be done in CS3 for lack of features. At that point they'll probably say just give us the PDF and we'll let you handle the editing in future if it needs an update.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 9:32 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Most customers of bucket-shop printers think that templates are free 

    in general, mainly because of their inexperience and/or experience 

    with basic apps only, i.e., word, publisher, etc., that do supply 

    canned templates.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 9:36 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    Eugene Tyson wrote:

     

    So I do want a way to save backward, and I do want Adobe to build into the files what version to open the files in.

    I don't really care about being able to backsave (probably becuse I have ID back to version 2 installed and don't NEED to work inthe wrong version), but I could really support a naming convention that would allow files to be opened by default in the correct version. Sometimes the first clue I notice is the "save" command opens the "Save As" dialog, and I've just spent an hour editing.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 9:38 AM   in reply to peterpica

    peterpica wrote:

     

    Most customers of bucket-shop printers think that templates are free 

    in general, mainly because of their inexperience and/or experience 

    with basic apps only, i.e., word, publisher, etc., that do supply 

    canned templates.

    And there are plenty of free templates out there for those people. They wouldn't be calling on you for a custom template.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 9:41 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    wanna bet?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 9:42 AM   in reply to Cynthia Ryan Graphic

    No argument there... but your clients are obviously of the 

    sophisticated genre.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 10:22 AM   in reply to Cynthia Ryan Graphic

    This whole nonsense about "Adobe can't provide a save as CS3/CS4" option because of text reflow is rubbish. You can export a CS5 file as a pdf (a different file format) and you can even open and edit it in Acrobat Pro. Adobe chose now to put resources against it and that's all there is to it. CS5 seems to have no problem opening up files from older versions of InDesign and I haven't noticed any text reflow.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 10:36 AM   in reply to bsnebold

    bsnebold wrote:

     

    CS5 seems to have no problem opening up files from older versions of InDesign and I haven't noticed any text reflow.

    It doesn't show up in that direction until you start to edit the text.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 10:44 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    So in other words you have the same compatibility issues in either direction. Which makes my point just as valid as before. There is a real world need, given the nature of the business that this software is designed for, to be able to save down to a previous version of the file. The user can be warned of possible text reflow issues and missing features, but at least give them the functionality.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 12:45 PM   in reply to Cynthia Ryan Graphic

    Get as many people as you can to fill out the feature request

     

    https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 2:18 PM   in reply to Cynthia Ryan Graphic

    Well, I'm 100% on board for meaningful error messages. I couldn't care less about the backsave, but the absence of error messages that actually tell non-experts something about what is going on are always advisable.

     

    (New in CS6: The number of "Where do I get these plug-ins?" posts to the Adobe Forums declines by a third! Wow!)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 2:25 PM   in reply to Joel Cherney
    (New in CS6: The number of "Where do I get these plug-ins?" posts to the Adobe Forums declines by a third! Wow!)

     

    Not really. Only if Adobe finally "updates" CS, CS2, CS3, CS4, and CS5 to gracefully reject CS6 files, with aforementioned "meaningful error message" saying something straight-up such as "This document is from a newer version".

     

    The major version number is and always has been in the very first 1K of data in each InDesign file, on the same place.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 2:27 PM   in reply to Joel Cherney

    Yeh a warning is a fair ask.

     

    And I also think it's a fair ask that if you double click a file to open it that it opens in the version it was saved in.

     

    Those are the things I asked for in the Feature Request

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2010 2:30 PM   in reply to Joel Cherney

    Joel Cherney wrote:

     

    (New in CS6: The number of "Where do I get these plug-ins?" posts to the Adobe Forums declines by a third! Wow!)

    Sorry, that won't happen until the release of CS7 when the CS6 warning "this file was saved in a newer version of InDesign and cannot be opened in this version" finally kicks in.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2010 7:17 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Our design department has over ten artists, who don't all have a Mac computer with a multi-core processor. So while we are going to upgrade from CS3 to CS5, only a handful of us can actually use the new software until we can get the remaining new computers in house. This is a frustrating problem, because now there will be a steep learning curve, and we need to plan out who works on what project so that we don't get stuck. Having CS3 running on the new multicore computers (that automatically come with Snow Leopard) would be ideal, so that our learning curve could be more gradual and not as frustrating.

     

    That said, I've done some experiementing, and although I've heard that CS3 does not work on the new Macs, I have found that it DOES. We're not using complex inDesign files with multiple pages, text linkages, and all that fancy stuff. So I'd like to share the news with possible readers out there to give it a try, it might not be so painful after all.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2010 7:21 AM   in reply to aart_depaartment

    Who told you CS3 wouldn't work? CS2 would be a real crapshoot but CS3 should be just fine until you get everyone up an running.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2010 7:22 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    I read that on some forums while researching CS5. Boy am I glad that 

    was wrong information!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2010 7:31 AM   in reply to aart_depaartment

    Brutally wrong...don't believe everything you read...even here.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2010 11:02 PM   in reply to Cynthia Ryan Graphic

    If it's any help, I have CS5 and CS4, and I use both for different purposes and clients.

     

    If I know a client is on CS4 or CS3, then I'll start the workflow in CS4.

     

    If I'm not collaborating or if the client is on CS5, then I'll work in CS5.

     

     

    But honestly, I am finding CS5 to be pretty unstable, and it's crashing and hanging a lot.  CS4 is perfect.  CS5 is buggy.

     

     

    I don't mind at all working in CS4 in the interum.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 3:10 AM   in reply to KVL_NY

    That's great! Unfortunately...CS4 isn't even available for purchase (unless I go on Ebay or something) so all I'll have is 3 and 5. BUT I've been doing some testing, and it looks like 3 actually is working on the new Mac G5, so perhaps it's not as terrible as I feared.

     

    Best,

    Nicole

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 6:13 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    Thanks...I should've been more specific. It's not available for the 

    Creative Suite Design Premium. I had it bookmarked from Amazon and 

    JUST as I was about to buy one copy of the suite, it was marked "not 

    available". We had combined/bundled our serial numbers years ago, now 

    we can only ugrade each license but it has to be the whole suite. I 

    spoke with Adobe directly, and they said they can install it 

    backwards compatible for an additional cost - which would have been 

    like buying BOTH CS4 and 5.

     

    Thanks so much for your help, much appreciated!

     

    Best,

    N

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 8:13 PM   in reply to Peter Spier

    P Spier wrote:

     

    Jeremy AB wrote:


    In regards to the main topic, I would never give my customers the raw InDesign file anyway so it doesn't matter what version I am running. This is what PDFs are for. If a customer insists on being able to edit the file then they would have to keep up with the upgrades when I do.

    So you wouldn't take a job creating a template if the client wants it in a version you don't own -- not that I think you should, mind you, but others here feel they should have the ability, and I agree that there should be a way to buy the previous licenses to accomodate them. I would never suggest "downsizing" a late version file as anything but an emergency solution.

    In the rare instances that a client has asked me to supply the file in an editable format to them, I ask them if they have InDesign and if not are they willing to spend the money on purchasing a copy. That usually ends the conversation right there. Either that, or they ask me to send it in Word format (shudder). My feelings are that I am the designer, not the client, so if they need design work I will take care of it for them and charge them accordingly. I am also very protective of my work and not comfortable with someone mucking around with it. That said, if a client insisted then they would have to keep up with the versions if I do. Either that or they should stick to Word or Publisher so they can handle it themselves. Thankfully I've almost never encountered any of this, so I guess that's why this thing is a very minor issue for me.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 9:05 PM   in reply to Jeremy AB

    I think for a LOT of designers this IS a major issue.

     

    For instance, one of my clients, is a very big national marketing firm which has tons of work and pays very, very well, regularly commission designers from all over the country to create and craft the initial design for various projects.

     

    Once the design is completed the InDesign Package is collected and given to thier production department to be set to their printing standards, as well as any future minor copy changes.   Then they commission another project.  This is a very lucrative relationship.

     

    They are currently on CS4.  For them to upgrade to CS5 they have to upgrade their entire company of 500+ staff and production department.  So for them it's a big deal.  They will be on CS4 for a long time still.

     

    I'd like to be able to create files for them in CS5 but it's just not realistic since downgrading is very difficult and it doesnt' retain a lot of the design formatting.  There would be too many foreseable problems, and in their case,  if a designer is creating files that are giving the production team headaches, there are plenty of other designers waiting for the work.  Especially now in this economy...

     

    I think in those instances where you can be protective of your files, only send PDF's,  is not really in the majority of real work out there. The landscape of boutique work is changing just a bit in my opinion.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 9:29 PM   in reply to KVL_NY

    KVL_NY wrote:

     

    Once the design is completed the InDesign Package is collected and given to thier production department to be set to their printing standards, as well as any future minor copy changes.   Then they commission another project.  This is a very lucrative relationship.

     

    In the case of your example, if this relationship is as lucrative as you state, then I would stick with whatever version they are using. If you already own CS4 and that's what they use, then any work you do for them, do it in that version. It's all about managing your projects properly and using the tool, program and version that's right for the job. If you upgrade to CS5, you could perhaps use it for other projects though.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 9:49 PM   in reply to Jeremy AB

    You're right.  Exactly what I was suggesting earlier in the thread.  I have CS4 and CS5 for the purposes mentioned.

     

    If I had to use CS5 only and work around the downward compatibilty issue, it would drive me nuts.

     

    I think that's what a lot of people on this thread are suggesting.  That Adobe just make CS5 downward compatible so that a designer doesn't need to own both copies.

     

    Have a good holiday.

     

     

    ;-)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2010 6:16 PM   in reply to Peter Spier

    I simply cannot understand how somebody who is in business for themselves can claim that they're not turning over enough money that they can't afford an upgrade every 18 months or so. I do know there's more to an upgrade than the $199 cost for the box of software, but what are you in business for if you don't want the new tools that can give you a competitive edge?

     

    I'm always on the edge of my seat waiting for "The Next Big Thing", whether software or hardware... even getting burned using beta software.

     

    I'm 63 and have run my own graphic design and advertising agency businesses all my working life, in Australia and here in the US. With a positive attitude you can make a lot of money in this business.

     

    Do I miss cutting Rubylith? Not likely. But, please, forget being a Luddite and enjoy this exciting business and its wonderful new creative tools.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 7:08 AM   in reply to Wayne Guy

    Yes, of course--about as much as I miss opaqueing (sp?) negs on a 

    light table!

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 7:21 AM   in reply to peterpica

    Doing what on who? :-)

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 8:14 AM   in reply to peterpica

    Hey, my very first job!

     

    The special red ink pens alone costed my first boss a couple of $100 a year. He sometimes complained me using too much of them, but if he needed to re-make a costly printing plate because of a missed dot I'd really done it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 12:54 PM   in reply to [Jongware]

    And don't forget if your hand slipped and you opaqued part of the film that you weren't supposed to, you had to scrape it off with an X-acto knife.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 1:05 PM   in reply to Michael Gianino

    Who's hand ever slipped?

     

    My biggest problem was keeping cigarette ashes from dropping and 

    burning the film!

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 4:13 PM   in reply to peterpica

    It taught me to read mirrored and upside down text as easy as anything. Not something I can use in everyday life, though -- I don't spend much time standing on my head behind shop windows.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 4:17 PM   in reply to [Jongware]

    Was great being able to read quotation summation sheets and/or 

    purchase orders from the other side of the desk too... so you could 

    see what you were up against.

     
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