It would be a very useful feature to have though, especially for freehand brushstrokes.
Is this something we can expect in a future release?
Absolutely, I made an argument for this a while back in a feature request I will try again but with tools like the new eraser tool and blob brush and draw inside and bristle brushes this becomes more important as well perhaps some new types of tools to create hand drawn art.
Painter has been doing this since version 1.
I do not consider it of any particular value in a vector drawing program. A vector program works with objects, not pixels. So you can already draw with a stylus at any "angle" you want.
What would be the functional advantage? You can set the Constrain Angle in Prefs. That effectively "rotates the grid." Any objects that are created based on horizontal/vertical behavior (shape primitives, text) thereafter abide by the Constrain setting. But with or without the Constrain angle altered, freehand tools (Brush, Pencil, Blob, whatever) already draw at the angle you are moving your pointing device. The only difference between this and the feature you think you want from raster imaging programs is that the page display (Artboard) doesn't display as rotated. So what? You can rotate the objects of your freehand sketch any time you want. Again, you are creating OBJECTS, not painting pixels. You don't have the problem inherent in raster programs of inability to easily select and rotate "things you paint" relative to the bounds of the raster image.
1. Set the Constrain angle to 15 degrees.
2. View>Hide Artboard.
3. View>Show Grid.
4. Rectangle Tool: Click. Enter dimensions corresponding to the Artboard size.
Now "paint" with your stylus. Create some text objects. Draw some LBOs.
5. Explain to me any significant functional difference.
It's one of the reasons I don't care for a stylus/tablet. It introduces a cumbersome tablet just to change the shape of the pointing device to that of a pencil.
That introduces the problem of the tablet's rotational orientation not being sensed through the pointing device, as it is through the shape of a regular mouse. So the grid of the tablet provides that orientation. That's not really sensed as you draw with the stylus while looking at the monitor. The angle of your movements is dependent upon the orientation of the tablet relative to the screen, rather than the movement of the pointing device relative to the screen.
Put that fuctionally back in the context of a mouse: You've just made it necessary to "correctly" rotate your desk under your computer, just to achieve something you consider a "more natural" arm movement.
With either scheme, you've decided to become married to your precious stylus. And you find yourself dissatisfied, and requesting that every software publisher add a feature that tries to treat the real-world horizontal/vertical orientation of the monitor pixels as if they are rotated when they're not.
Consider a wireless stylus which requires no tablet and is round, with no button or or other feature to determine its rotation. That's essentially a "pencil" equivalent to what turned out to be the most horribly-designed pointing device ever conceived: the origninal round mouse of the early G4 Macs. In other words, it's just a pencil-shaped mouse that works on any surface.
Now put a button on the side of the stylus like that on a Wacom stylus. If your index finger is on that button, you have a tactile rotational sense of which direction is up on your monitor; which is what the orientation of the tablet provides now.
You can use this stylus on any surface. That surface can be any shape, size, or orientation, just as your desk can be when using an ordinary mouse. If you want to hold that surface in your lap, just pick up a clipboard. But would that satisfy? No, because the monitor is still real-world horizontal when your particular "natural feeling" "sideways" movement is not.
So a software vendor complies, and develops who-knows-how-convoluted software routines to make the screen image act as if it's rotated to correspond to your particular "natural feeling" angle. You claim to be so happy because now you make what feels like a "natural" horizontal forearm movment, and it draws "horizontally" across the rotated display of the virtual page edge displayed in the program.
But move your forearm in your "natural feeling" upward direction to go select a menu command. The menu bars, the frame around the view of your software has not rotated to your "natural" angle. So how come users who sing the praise of this feature, and curse programs which don't provide it, don't at the same time complain loudly that the menus haven't rotated? (Could it be that they have found it necessary to make concession to the real world?)
Those of you married to tablets: Mount your LCD monitor on a back-side pivot and physically rotate the whole monitor. Suddenly, not only is the page display visually rotatable to your "natural" angle, but its menus rotate accordingly too. "Up" is "naturally up" whether you're drawing a cartoon blob stroke or selecting a menu command. Isn't that more representative of what you are trying achieve by demanding a fake "rotation" feature in every graphics program? Isn't that the real way to make your computer mimic the angle at which you are holding that tablet in your lap? Isn't that the functional and visual equivalent to rotating the "paper" on which you are scribbling with your "pencil"? And, egads, it works in every program you've got! With zero performance hit! It's just not as "cool" as having some artsy-tartsy make-me-feel-special feature built into the software.
Once again, the emperor has no clothes.
It'll never fly, though, because stylus devotees will then complain that the menus don't read in the real-world horizontal when they pull them down. We can't make senstive artsy types tilt their heads to read, any more than we can expect them to change the angle of their forearms when they draw. So they'll be all over the software vendors to provide a software fake that auto-senses the tilt of the monitor and adjusts all popups and dropdowns to compensate.
That's what we need: A sailboat clinometer on a monitor bezel, with a USB cable sending an "up-is-thataway" signal to the OS.
Being able to rotate the artboard can be useful in many situations. The most obvious is probably package design.
Imagine you've got a sophisticated layer structure with loads of locked and unlocked layers and/or objects, for example, and you want to visually examine the package at different angles on the fly (without having to go to Acrobat or another programme as a workaround and without having to release the locked objects).
The same may apply to certain map designs as well as to board game design, circuit diagrams, plant layouts etc.
The vector drawing programme Creaturehouse Expression (nowadays a Microsoft application) has had the ability to rotate the artboard from the beginning.
Nowadays it is more conceivable to do inking of artworks in a vector application.
Being able to do skeletal strokes and variable widths broadens the possible expressions.
Drawing in vector let you edit and fine tune your strokes at any time in the process.
The hand can do much better curves at a certain angle. It would be only convenient to be able to rotate the view on the fly. It would also mean less tweaking around with the nodes afterward.
It would see it as a step forward and a very valuable asset, other vector applications have already taken this route.
Of coarse this feature is oriented towards tablet input.
@ JET in regards to why I would like the rotate display option in AI:
I routinely work on complex files in AI that involve diecut pieces, where one or more panels are upside-down in the template based on how the piece will be folded and glued after cutting. Being able to rotate the display, as opposed to actually rotating the art itself, would be a huge benefit in those cases.
I've been doing that for decades and never pined for a screen rotation feature.
Separate individually-sized pages for each panel, all right-reading.
An assembly page for the whole design.
Make Symbols of the contents of the pages that need to be rotated.
Place one Instance of each of those Symbols on the assembly page, rotated as needed.
Perform edits on the unrotated pages.
Without much doubt there are plenty of illustrators who have been doing that for decades as well, James.
Still they might prefer being able to use that specific artboard rotation. They have their reasons for it and I am one of them, though I know workarounds like the one you described.
No need to slate the request.
It makes sense to rotate the monitor if we're drawing on the monitor. As you know, these are available, but expensive. The stylus/tablet is cheaper.
With a tablet, we want to rotate the canvas. This makes sense, though the most skilled artists practice their strokes from all angles. (Try rotating your wet oil painting on the easel).
Still, for us less practiced artisans, we want to rotate the canvas. We don't care how much the programmers have to work to rotate the canvas. For us users, it is simple.
Why would we ever want to go through numerous steps to reproduce something similar, when rotating with our tablets is but a single swipe of our finger tip.
Now we know that all of the programs in the Adobe suite have separate origins, but they should have similar interfaces. If Photoshop and InDesign has such a feature, it seems like a large gap that AI doesn't.
Don't rotate the menus. It's not necessary.
It makes sense to rotate the monitor if we're drawing on the monitor. As you know, these are available, but expensive.
You're stating my case. Simply rotating the monitor would be the closest simulation of having one of those expensive touch-screen tablets you're talking about, that you can rotate to any angle you want in your lap.
We don't care how much the programmers have to work to rotate the canvas.
Speak for yourself. I certainly do care, because I'd much rather the programmers work on any of a very long list of much-needed improvements that would benefit all users. And I don't want to pay for a feature I consider downright silly in every version upgrade I buy. Nothing is free.
I agree with you about rotating the art board, and it should be able to rotate without the menus flipping. That would be rediculous. lt should rotate just as easy as a vector rectangle. I use an lntuos Wacom with a touchring that can rotate the canvas in Photoshop. ln Illustrator, having no such option is a strange thing. Afterall, it's called "Illustrator", and I do freehand drawing just like I always have on paper and canvas. I often do straighter lines in a vertical motion, so when I need a straighter than normal horizontal line, I will flip the paper to draw it with a vertical motion. lt is easier to pull my elbow back than to draw the line while controlling the natural arc that comes with moving my arm horizontally. It really would speed things up to have canvas rotation in Illustrator.
Of course, I'm expecting jet to make a fool of himself and say change the grid or, better yet, use the line segment tool or draw it with the shift key, OR draw it and move it, duh, it's a vector. But those tools have their places, and none of them are in my freehand Illustrations. Sometimes in art, a line needs to be straight, but not perfect. I understand the anxiety some feel when an Illustrator feature they do not need may get priority over their personal list of needed features and tools, but to say that a feature is completely unnessecary is, to me, a childish and anxious attempt to get what they want before others do. Similar to the way a child may gripe and put down their sibling because of the envy and worry he feels when his brother may get what he wants from their mother before he does. ln other words, they should stop before they speak and think for a moment in order to realize their motive for wanting to do so.
Apparently, "speak for yourself" was said hypocritically, because to call a customer's request or any valid question or curiosity pointless and a waste of Adobe's resources (that apparently should be sacrificed for certain people for their subjective gain if I read correctly) is truly blind to the usefulness that many would find to be true, and to the value it would add to Illustrator.
jet, I'm sure the AI team will adhere to your specific needs before you pass, so please, do not worry yourself too much. Personally, customized arrows is truly a waste of time. But I'm sure it's useful to a handful of some kind of graphic artist and may be useful to your "designs."(surely riddled with subconscious evidence of inner, frustrated nerd syndrome) Millions of people successfully designed and illustrated without computers for hundreds of years, so please, hold back your rants that belittle the value that Adobe has to offer and belittle the curiosities of other customers. They are useless to others and Adobe. For you, I'm sure it lowers your blood pressure (that self esteem you think you feel is in fact fake, so it doesn't count) to rant uselessly on others threads when a path doesn't do what you think it should be doing, but you should do everyone a favor and save it for your own threads and try not to color outside of the lines and into others' posts. I think you need a vacation from the screen and some quality time with some real art, like you used to have, I'm sure.
Hope there's at least a book written in reply. Aww, you are so Smart! With so much ridicule, too! I would love to post it on my main AI forum where we have started a thread with rediculous, valueless, and...rude posts. There's some from you! That's why I came here.
It's okay, I'm sure someone will speak up and say how much you've helped them and that you're misunderstood in some way or another.
Some people stand behind their decisions no matter what. Similarly, you don't apologize. That's cool. Whatever. I will apologize, however..
I'm sorry I called you a nerd.
I mean wow, name calling? Egads! On an Adobe community forum? Gosh...
You're really only considering a very narrow segment of the Illustrator user base. A feature like this would save a significant amount of time and help prevent user error when running out production on dozens of pieces of product packaging. For example, a backer card for a piece of clam-shell style packaging is often printed one-sided and folded in half to create a front and back. In this instance, a designer is frequently needing to rotate the art 180 degrees depending on which side of the card they are working on. Doing this manually by selecting all elements, then performing a 180 degree rotational transform works just fine, but for one, it is slow compared to having a built-in canvas rotation function – saving even minutes per piece can save hours over the course of several dozen pieces. And second, it leaves the designer wide open to small errors that tend to arise. The more frequently each element is manipulated in any way, the higher the chance that element will in some way get screwed up. For instance, a designer may select all, then rotate to work on the other side – however if a small element's position is locked, the designer may not notice. Of course it would be the designer's fault for not paying complete attention to detail, but we are all human beings who make errors, and I just don't see any reason not to implement a feature that would make a professional designer not only more efficient, but less prone to mistakes, especially when that feature is present in two out of the three core Creative Suite applications.
You also speak as if an illustrator or designer's comfort in their workspace is some kind of luxory for spoiled, whiny "artsy-fartsy" types. Truth is, these are PROFESSIONALS who depend on their workstations and software to put food on their tables and support their families. It is paramount for these professionals that their workflow be as streamline, efficient and comfortable as possible. Consider that before you go crucifying an entire community of users.
People that lack imagination and want other to too always amaze me.
There are literally (and yes I mean literally) BILLIONS of uses for this. Here's just one:
When designing a brochure you may have to design one side upside down (depending on your printer). It is substantially easier if you can rotate your artboard.
The next time you don't see a need for something maybe you'll realize it's your lack of imagination that's the problem, not the request.
people often use Illustrator for package design as well and that would make it easier to work on side panels and end flaps as well.
Any type of item that folds could also bebenfit from the feature.
Not even going that far but many illustrations can be of a nature were you would at times want to work at a veiw that is rotated as say it were an illustration with many figures it like gargoyles type figures and some were arranged at different angles and yo need to integrate these figures in such a way as they had a seamless joined relationship. So it would be easier to edit these figures once arranged by rotating the canvas.
Yes there are many uses for this feature one often works on art art work upside down and one often looks at the work upside down in order to get a feeling as to hwo the art is balanced and even to notice things that might be over looked from starng at it too long rightside up.
But though there are many uses for such a feature aI would not go as far as to say that someone is not imaginative just because they have not encountered the need for the feature.
Your explanation I think is probably well enough stated to show if not the poster you were addressing the need for this then at least members of the team that might chime in or look in on this thread.
You might make a feature request for this I made one a long time ago and I got feed back at the time that it was not in the cards. That might have cahnge though because of the Cloud so try it.
Personally I wouldn't go that far... from a prepress perspective Unembed Image is going to be a huge timesaver (as would rotating the canvas), two features that have been in InDesign for quite a while now.
"I would not go as far as to say that someone is not imaginative just because they have not encountered the need for the feature."
If that's how you understood me I didn't do a good job of expressing myself. Let me try again:
A person is unimaginative if they can't imagine uses, or things, for which they have no need.
I find it especially troubling when creatives argue about how "useless" a feature is to them, so it must be useless to everyone. That is the antitheses of creativity.
God I WISH their was a rotate view. I work in packaging so I have to either amend 5 point copy reading it up-side-down (try doing that for hours when you're tired!) or I have to rotate the box, fix the copy then rotate it again remembering it's position. If only the 1000+ bits of artwork were created with the front of pack on the bottom so the back of pack—where all the detail is—is right way up. It leads to so many mistakes!
WISH, WISH, WISH.
Rotate artboard/canvas would be immensely useful to those of us who use Illustrator for package design. I'm creating box art that needs to be read in more than one direction (top, bottom, sides, etc.) And the file has multiple layers, multiple objects, layout lines, cut and trim marks, masks, etc. etc. There is no way to rotate all that stuff safely.
This really isn't the same thing; if you're going to actually modify the file, why not just rotate everything natively in Illustrator?
The beauty of how InDesign and Photoshop rotate the view is that they are not modifying the file, only the display. This is a long-needed feature in Illustrator as well, and I'm disappointed that it didn't make it into AICC.
I am yet another designer who does a lot of packaging and being able to rotate the view would be extremely helpful to me...and there are times when I have account people hover over my computer to ask me to make small changes on the fly. It's time consuming to rotate discrete elements, make changes, rotate back and position them properly. Vote me in for this as a feature on future releases.
Rotating the view (as in Photoshop) has a huge functional vantage. When using a tablet and drawing out curved lines with pencil/brush you can't get a smooth stroke left and right. The advantage of quickly rotating the screen (not tools or artboard) is to give you optimal angle with your hand to perform a smoother stroke. Here we are years later still needing to rotate the actual artwork to get nice horizontal hand drawn lines.
Adone, PLEASE add this function to a realease soon. I am an artist that scans in artwork and trace my lines only wishing it could behave like Photoshop.
I agree, as I work in packaging. And if we are designing a folded carton with several flaps and side panels, we need to be able to rotate the views. We ended up buying Esko Studio Designer plugin for Illustrator in order to have the view rotate for designing purposes.
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26 thousand exposures of this topic. Several years of discussion. The new version of the code. New features graphics card.
I continue to design simple packaging of multi-directional reading and cartoonists work has not been improved in 15 years ...
I do not know what you have to say...
It's a simple rotation of the image on the monitor, without changing the style effects, etc. As in the PS Rotate View Tool.