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New in CS5, why can't I render a file larger than 2.15 GB to a network drive?

Jul 14, 2010 7:43 PM

  Latest reply: Todd_Kopriva, Jan 3, 2014 11:48 AM
Replies 1 2 3 4 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2012 7:08 AM   in reply to erics6419

    I've asked for an update from my coworkers who are in communication with Apple about this issue.

     
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    Mar 14, 2012 7:12 AM   in reply to erics6419

    I stopped to believe in anyone involved about this.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2012 10:32 AM   in reply to PKPictures

    I looked into enabling NFS on our systems (like theoutfitvfx), quite possible but not worth the hassle. The render-to-local-drive-and-copy workaround is fairly simple. Stupid but simple...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2012 10:59 AM   in reply to DLpres2

    "Stupid but simple..."

     

    Key word being stupid.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2012 11:10 AM   in reply to colorkite

    It's pretty shocking that this is still being delt with....but I guess with FCP X working out of the local 'movies' directly they probably don't even know the problem exits.....lol..

     

    -G

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2012 11:13 AM   in reply to Greg Leuenberger

    Really true.. haha. But at least compressor 4 likes network volumes - and that's really a big clue for the compressor team to bug the quicktime folks about. But I feel like more and more there really are no quicktime folks these days. They are too busy optimizing codecs for iPads and iPhones perhaps.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 14, 2012 11:15 AM   in reply to colorkite

    I've basically been queing an image sequence and an Audio export from AE as a workaround so I can have both my scratch audio and my image sequence on the AFP.

     

    Who wants to render local and then transfer when you have overnight renders that you want ready for colleagues in the morning?

     

    Sh*t workflow is sh*t.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 11:01 AM   in reply to colorkite

    And now with CS6 we still have the same problem...

    It is unbelievable that this issue is not solved since 07.2010!!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 1:24 PM   in reply to Rook888

    Yep this have been going on for years now.

    Most have moved on.

    I know that ProRes works over AFP and SAMBA over 2GB.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 2:44 PM   in reply to ianim8

    It does?  I don't think so - I always render in ProRes 4444 and I can't do +2GB files from my  Mac Pro to my Xserve file server over AFP.  I thought this was a 'Apple - Quicktime' problem and not an Adobe problem.

     

     

    -G

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:14 PM   in reply to Greg Leuenberger

    We've been waiting for a fix from Apple. See this post for details:

    http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2011/05/cant-create-quicktime-movie -larger-than-2-15gb-across-network-using-afp.html

     

    Since we haven't gottent the fix from Apple, we are for now recommending that people use NFS instead of AFP or use one of the workarounds described in the above article. We are also looking into how we can use a different set of QuickTime functions to get around this QuickTime bug.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:24 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Could you guys not have implemented one of the workarounds behind the scenes in the renderer, so my designers don't have to deal with it all the time? Surely you know having a facility erase and reformat it's entire server RAID over to NFS isn't a feasible solution.

     

    At least once or twice a month, I have a designer forget, render out a bad file, and then have to rerender an image sequence, and reinsert any audio after the fact. Usually when a deadline is right around the corner.

     

    Serious question, don't mean to sound snarky, really, but how hard would it be to build in something to the software that when it sees that something is going to be rendered that might even come close to invoking this bug, to have it render an image sequence and then compile and convert it to QT in the background when it's done, all while showing to the user that it's a QT render as usual?

     

    I can imagine it would take longer to do the two steps behind the scenes, but at least it would work, and you'd have a ton of professionals singing your praises for finding a way to work with it. As it stands, the company line of "we're waiting for Apple to fix it," just sounds lazy. We all hate Apple for creating/not fixing this bug for so long, so why not engender some good will with your users instead of just sitting it out?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:38 PM   in reply to fwstudio

    We honestly thought that the fix was coming in some recent Apple releases. Not lazy. Just mistaken. At this point, we realize that that is not likely... hence the last sentence of my previous post.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 4:04 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    I know you guys aren't being lazy about it... it's just the appearance of it that gets frustrating for us. Thanks for your reply. I'm sure having to reply to the same people for the same issue for years now but be awful frustrating for you.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2012 5:35 AM   in reply to PKPictures

    Everyone should also be aware that since 10.6.4, into Lion and seemingly into Mountain Lion, there is an additional bug with OS X where files with long filenames (>=32 characters) saved to an NFS export will not show up for a random (but usually substantial) number of additional OS X machines mounting that same NFS export. The reason for the error is that OS X's file system manager (which is downstream of Adobe) saves the long file name with a truncation (using only 31 characters). Then, after the write is complete, it requests the filename be changed to the original. Most NFS servers comply. A check at the POSIX level (in the Terminal) will reflect the change, but at the OS X Application level (Finder, Adobe and above) many clients will still see the old file name.  So, if you have automations (or other creatives) expecting a certain filename, it won't be there. For those who have access to Apple's dev site, there are two open tickets since the middle of last year on this issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 17, 2012 4:38 PM   in reply to MMCT-Matt

    Hey MMCT-Matt - that's incredibly interesting and relevant news. Is this NFS bug in Apple's Server-OS implementation of NFS, or the client OS view of the NFS file system?

     

    We're planning to migrate away from our old AFP/SMB X-serve-mounted SAN storage to Hitachi's super-SAN  setup using NFS as the core protocol (and we wanted to just leave the client connections through NFS largely because of this persistent and apparently unsolvable AFX/QT incompatibility). We mostly work in frame sequences anyway, but need to write out large quicktime files often enough to make it worth the while coming up with a permanent workaround to solve this problem that our old uncooperative overlords don't seem interested in ever actually fixing. However, if this is going to open up a large-names-freak-out-on-some-clients-and-break-scripts-nightmare then the cure is worse than the disease.

     

    Anymore information on this NFS bug would be much appreciated (if its Apple server based only we're ok as we're abandoing that slowly sinking ship before Apple abandons us anyway).

     

    thanks so much, Lang

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 18, 2012 8:05 PM   in reply to fwstudio

    > Surely you know having a facility erase and reformat it's entire server RAID over to NFS isn't a feasible solution.

     

    fwstudio, NFS (despite its name) is a network protocol, not a block-level file system. There's no need to reformat your drive, you just enable it on your server, like SMB etc.

     

    Still, the newly-found bugs in NFS make this situation all the more delighting.

     

    1. Has anyone tested >2GB files over AFP in Lion or Mountain Lion? Is this the same as Snow Leopard?

     

    2. Another avenue to explore... a 3rd-party network protocol that's better implemented than what's built in into OSX. For example, Thursby's DAVE is an enterprise-grade SMB/CIFS Mac protocol. It has a fully functional 2-week trial, could be worth trying.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 30, 2012 4:11 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Hi Todd

    I want to offer a possible fix for this problem. We have in the Past custom made work arounds for Mostly Apple but other company's issues.

    We are not looking to charge for this. It is a free service.  Based on Reading about this problem and how folks work around it I have good reason

    to think we can make a work around. I can give a few examples of what we have done in the past to anyone that wants to know.

    So I am looking for anyone that is having the Apple QuickTime bug.  We need someone to work with on this but there is not very much that who ever works on this with us needs to do. We will give the exact instructions on what we need to try and make a fix. In Short we will need

    to cause the problem then get a Core Dump and Stack Dump. We may need a little more than that depending on what we see in the Core dump but from this info we may be able to make a work around.

    I wanted to talk to you in person but do not have your number.

    ANYONE that wants to work with us we would like to fix this issue for all of you and for us.

    I am not sure if it is within the rules to post my info and sorry if we are not supposed to do so but I can not fix it if I can not comunicate with whom ever wants to work with us on this. Again not too much to do for whome ever wants to work with us on this. And yes it could help our company if this problem is fixed.

    Call me anyone that is interesed,

    Jim  Tel 916-996-0956 e-mail jim@packetcolor.com

    We are located in the LA Area.

    Thank you.

    Jim

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 30, 2012 9:26 AM   in reply to Jimmyjoejetter

    Jim,

     

    Thanks for the offer, but we're making good progress here on fixing this on our side. We realized that we were never going to get a fix on the Apple side for this, so we're working on what we can do on our end.

     

    Of course, I can't make any promises about when or whether any specific fixes may be available.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 30, 2012 9:32 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Thanks for the update Todd - but I hope there is a lesson here for Adobe.

     

    It's "probably" not good practice in product development to rely on other companies to fix features in your own product - even if it is thier tech. Sad to see that individuals are working to fix this becuase Adobe is 2 years late. Not to mention Adobe releases and sells 2 versions of a product that costs a premium while they wait on Apple to supply a fix. Quite underwhelming. Sad to say but - it's monopoly at it's finest.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 30, 2012 10:06 AM   in reply to colorkite

    Strange to me. I see it different. I do not see it as an Adobe Problem.

    From everything I can see including what folks have done for a work

    around it appears to be a networking issue or at least something in the

    API that is affecting the network. Now at what level I do not know yet.

    IT could even be deep in the Stack or at the higher level of the file or

    files themselves. It could be just about anything. But I see it as an

    Apple Problem that Affects Adobe. I do not see it as an adobe Problem.

    When you develop for a OS you are Generally given an API and it is

    usually the Same API used by the company or ORG that made the OS. And if

    that has a bug there is not much Adobe can do but try and work it out

    with Apple in this case. We have had Similar problems. But do to the

    nature of our customer Base we have to assume that it may take some time

    for the Factory to Fix the API. Thus we make a work around that is

    rather invisible to the users. Instead of giving you an example of an

    Apple Fix I will give you an example of a fix we made for one of the

    More Popular DSP Chips that were used for Analog Modem and Faxes. After

    the core dump we could see were the problem was. This was back in the

    early 90s. I use this example as it helps one understand one of the ways

    we fix problems. In those days we did not have Electrically programable

    RAM. Also it was common Much like a Current CPU to have the code that

    makes the chip work built into the Masking. So the Code or Program us

    Part if the Die so to speak. But when you turned on the

    Fax/Modem the code loads into RAM. What we usually do After we find the

    problem and since we can NOT alter the Hard Coded into the Masking of

    the DSP Chip We go to the Addresses in RAM were the Faulty code gets

    loaded. That is where we make the fix. Thus when the system is turned on

    The Faulty code loads but before the system is done booting we Make the

    Changes in in the code that is loaded to the RAM using the Controller

    Chip. Thus to the user they never know there was ever a problem. And as

    the code is fixed eventually at the factory even if they leave our fix

    in the system it will not hurt anything. A good analogy would be if

    faulty code is loaded in RAM from the program we just add a Small small

    Script that changes the values of the RAM or over right the RAM with the

    fix.

    Since Adobe does not feel they want to work with us would anyone else

    like to do so?

    Jim Faraday jim@packetcolor.com  Direct cell 916-996-0956

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 30, 2012 11:56 AM   in reply to colorkite

    I gave it some more thought.

    I at this point do not really Care WHO is at Fault. One Thing I do know

    for sure. We Answer the phones 24 x 7 x 365 because Our customers work

    those kinds of hours. We feel it is irresponsible to sell into a Market

    that works Long hours and then not Make ourselves available in Case

    there is a problem. Even if the problem has nothing to do with our

    solutions.

    Personally I would never leave a customer in this condition or situation

    for any amount of time. The More I read the more disgusted I am with

    Apple and others that just talk and We have no indication for sure what

    is going on. We would tell our customers the truth. IF we were ever to

    run into a situation we could not fix and that has not happened since

    1983 when we started this company. I am just Fed up with Companys that

    decide not to deal with a problem because "It is too Hard " or it is not

    our policy or what ever the deal is" The Lame promises are just words of

    "We are working on it". For 3 Years now? Get Real.

    I WILL Take Care of My customers. Always have and always will. And I

    expect the same from whom ever I purchase from. Since I was made aware

    of this issue Late Last week I have looked into it and decided to fix it

    ourselves. With or without your help. Apple Should be ashamed of itself

    and now I feel that other companys should as well. WE are not perfect

    but we would never do this or allow this to go on for this long or any

    longer that it takes to fix it and we would if it was our code have

    fixed it. Sure there are lots of Bugs in a company of Apple And Adobe's

    size. But you also have resources. It is not always ONLY about $. IT

    should also be about helping a loyal customer because it is the right

    thing to do.

     

    Jim Davison

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 31, 2012 1:13 AM   in reply to Jimmyjoejetter

    Dear fellow sufferers!

     

    One possible solution is using DAVE V 9.0! Somebody had posted this option already! I've now tested it and rendering to an CIFS share works also with >2GB!!! At least with the free trial version it worked well. But beware: this version no longer works with OS X 10.8! A corresponding new version (V 10) is only in beta. 

    We have also tested with NFS. Here, unfortunately, a special mount option is required ("-o sync") which reduces the network performance extremly. Without this option After Effects crashes (+ Finder) complete shortly after starting to render.

     

    Regards Michael

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 31, 2012 11:46 AM   in reply to sweety_1136

    Hi

    Using Thursby Dave did work for some. However it will effect speed.  OSX

    can work with SMB as Apple made it for compatibility but AFP is the way

    OSX was intended to work. But even using SMB does not fix the issue, AFP

    is Faster as it has larger Block sizes and it saves all Data in the

    Resource fork as well as the Data fork.

    NFS is so slow. It is a great tool and there are lots of uses for it.

    But connecting to a Work Station that would put loads on both the Server

    and the network to the extent that is found in the Publishing

    and E.I..Fiber Channel is sometimes a way to go but it also has

    Limitations. The Best way is 10 Gbps Ethernet with AFP. Apple uses AFP

    as do at least one other solution besides us.

    Anyway I would be happy to Give a server to anyone that wants to help us

    with this issue. We are asking only for someone to cause the problem to

    happen then we will get the Core Dump. Then after we make a fix you or

    who ever can test it. No cost in $ and we are talking a very small

    amount of time.

    Let me know if you know of anyone.

    Jim jim@packetcolor.com Cel 916-996-0956 or 310-770-0099

    I am located in Beverly Hills so we are close to a lot of folks that

    have this problem and have had to even resort to using PCs.

    Hardly anyone that is any kind of Graphics Arts like to use PCs. They

    learned on and like Apple for many reasons.

    We have a location in Sacramento and one in Reno. So anyone anywhere

    within a few hundred Miles of the CA Locations we will be happy to work

    with.

    Thank you.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 6, 2012 8:29 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Wondering if anyone on this thread has tried using webDAV as a workaround, since NFS seems to have a naming bug?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 10:58 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Rumor is that 10.8.2 has some network fixes and that it might solve this issue.  Sadly I can report that is not the case.  The bug still exists.  Please Apple & Adobe fix this!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 11:50 AM   in reply to JeremyNeish

    I am afraid that no one is listening...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 12:49 PM   in reply to JeremyNeish

    Jeremy

    Apple has known of this problem since 09. Mid 09.

    So has Adobe. Apple even has the problem listed in the bug report

    database since 09. They call the database of Bugs "It's on our Radar".

    And that is where it stayed. We have made fixes around Apple many times.

    Apple and Adobe seem to be having some kind of issues. Not sure why.

    I have some ideas but for the most part I think with Apple it is about

    I-Pods etc.. Apple left Adobe Flash out of the new I-Pad. It really

    sucks. So many sites use flash.

    So if you have an I-PAD and folks that have been loyal to Apple for

    years have asked Apple to support Flash. But Apple did not listen.

    They are now the largest company in the world thus i guess they feel

    they do not have to listen to anyone. Maybe that is the deal with Apple

    ignoring such a large amount of customers. Who knows. All anyone can do

    is speculate. Calling Apple is a waste of time for this issue.

     

    Now

    for your problem. It has been tracked down to an issue with the

    programing API Apple uses and so do developers such as HELIOS and Adobe.

    So it is not exactly Adobe's fault. However I would have made a work

    around long ago. We have done so in several of these Apple situations.

    And there are several of them. ILM uses a very good work around. Also I

    have heard that Adobe 6 no longer has the problem as they bypass the

    Apple API. But I have not had confirmation on that.

     

    I just know that we started to make a work around and discovered

    there were several that are very sloppy work around such as using Dave

    and there are very good work around s such as mentioned that ILM uses

    one that is very good.

     

    I would tell you but you stated to me 2.5 years ago. Apple is a company

    that moves forward and does not look back.

    Anyway we help out and get our customers fixed up so they do not have to

    deal with the problem. We did so within Days of finding out about it. We

    even suggested a way for Adobe to fix it. Not sure if they used our fix

    or not but it looks as if they had a different route if it is fixed in

    the latest version of Adobe.

    Jim Davison

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 12:53 PM   in reply to Rook888

    I got responses over time. Always the same. We are working on it with

    Apple. It has only been three years. Do you expect something faster from

    Apple and or Adobe. I talked to some of the engineers about 2 years ago.

    Very Arrogant. And did nothing but tell me how cool they were. They were

    quite pleased with themselves.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 1:00 PM   in reply to Jimmyjoejetter

    We are working on it still. In fact, the issue is fixed in the recent Adobe Media Encoder and Premiere Pro CS6 (6.0.2) updates. We are still working on the After Effects piece, which has more complexity.

     

    The speculations above about the relationship with Apple and Adobe miss the point. In fact, Apple has been cooperative in helping us to understand the issue. They tried to make a fix on their side, but it was too destabilizing in other areas. So, we needed to make some big changes on our side. We actually work rather well together.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 26, 2012 1:06 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    thanks for clearing that up.

    But what about the flash deal etc....And of cource as many folks have

    stated. 3 years now???

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 21, 2012 12:27 PM   in reply to JeremyNeish

    By the way, Avid Media Composer has the same problem. Wonder when they'll get around to fixing it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2013 10:26 PM   in reply to DLpres2

    This is fixed in the next version of After Effects. I listed it in the significant bug fixes here:

    http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2013/04/whats-new-changed-after-ef fects-next.html

     

    We're sorry that this took so long. The After Effects feature set regarding QuickTime is deeper than that for Premiere Pro and Adobe Media Encoder, so the fix that we used for those two didn't work for After Effects.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2013 3:46 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Hi Todd

    Thanks for the message but is it not the same message from about 10

    months ago???

    I do not want to be rude but am I missing something here???

    I never did blaime Adobe for the problem. It is clearly an Apple Problem

    and SIRI is more important than the loyal customer base is what a lot of

    folks are saying as they switch from Apple to Windows and quite a few to

    Linux. There is some good ( Not as good as Adobe) tools for that OS that

    do a good job.

    Tell me what I am missing here Todd. I realy want to know and do care.

    Thanks

    Jim

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2013 7:57 AM   in reply to Jimmyjoejetter

    Before, I was saying that we were working on a fix. Now, I'm telling you that the fix is in the version that we're releasing next (soon), though we still haven't announced the exact release date.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2013 8:36 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    OK

    Thank you.

    Jim

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2013 10:33 AM   in reply to Jimmyjoejetter

    THANK YOU.  Yes, it's been a long time but better late than never - this has been a huge PITA for quite some time now.  Now - if we could only get some proper multicore based rendering without having to load the same scene up 16 times to make full use of my computer's cores (I don't care if it's tile based or frame based - but every 3D app on the market is about 1000% more effficient than AfterFX on this front). : )

     

    -Greg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2013 10:39 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Thank you TODD! Those of us who have been in this thread since the beginning are grateful for the work/communication you've shared the entire way. The news wasn't always good, but you shared it nonetheless. Software is always going to have bugs. But every day there are giant companies NOT giving a $@%& about it for their customers. You have proven different. So I wanted to say Thanks for that. I do have one question. You said "next version". Does this mean that it will be packaged in an update to existing CS6 or waiting until CS7?

     

    Thanks again for everything.

    -Jason

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2013 11:05 AM   in reply to Vision3Jason

    > Does this mean that it will be packaged in an update to existing CS6 or waiting until CS7?

     

    This refers to the next version, not an update to CS6. More details on exact release dates soon. You can subscribe to our blog to be kept up to date:

    http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2014 11:14 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Don't mean to resurrect an old thread, but I'm working on CS6 here, and I'm still experiencing these issues...

    Is there an explanation for this?

     
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