Maybe it's just me, but I'm not at all happy with the deinterlacing results from Premiere CS5 and Media Encoder. I've been using Premiere since CS3 and hoped for improvement in CS4, but no. And now with CS5, it's still just not good...
This is what I do in an nutshell: I edit 1080i HDV video in Premiere (using 1080i timelines) and export it to several formats, including 720p for Youtube. Now, whatever I do, I alway get some staircasing / aliasing on deinterlaced output. Not really bad and hardly noticable on video, but very noticable on logo's (which - ironically - are progressive to start with). Preview in Premiere looks fine, but as soon as I put the content through media encoder: staircasing. Even with the new "Use maximum render quality" option enabled.
When I output my 1080i timeline as 1080i MPEG2 video everything looks pristine (motion adaptive deinterlacing is then done upon playback by my nVidia graphics card). When I leave all rendering options the same and export 1080p or 720p - leaving deinterlacing to media encoder - staircasting is easily visible on logo's and detail is lost in the video compared to real-time deinterlaced output by my graphics card.
I guess my main question is: Why can't Adobe get this right? nVidia and ATI can do it very well and in realtime on their graphics cards (and have been able to do so for several years now) and freeware filters such as the ones used by ffdshow do a far better job too.
Why can't a high-end and expensive video editing solution like CS5 get this right? Hugely disappointing
Thanks for the reply.
I do have After Effects and I know that it's better, but I need to produce multiple video's every week which means that I've got to keep the workflow as simple as possible. I don't want to go through After Effects just to get proper deinterlacing.
But moreover, I'm just of the opinion that Premiere / Media Encoder should be able to do a decent job at deinterlacing in the first place! It's not like we're talking about some cheap my-first-vide-editing program, but about a professional(??) piece of software which should just do this right. If Adobe intentionally cripples Premiere and Media Encoder to get people to buy After Effects, then shame on them. If not, then I'd say it's time to get it right!
Are people from Adobe reading this forum? If so, I'd very much like to hear their take on this.
I tried that (in CS4, not yet in CS5 I must admit) and it does yield somewhat better results. However, when I do that I go to 25 fps (I'm in Europe) whereas one of my output formats is PAL SD50i. If I go to 25p in Premiere then I lose motion resolution which I'd like to keep for the 50i output. I'm not behind my editing PC right now so I can't check, but if Premiere CS5 has presets for 1080p50 timelines, then that might be a helpfull option.
I'm afraid that there's many forms and methods of deinterlacing...Premiere Pro would have to build a library to offer these options...
But as you're finding out, to do a proper deinterlace, requires a third party app..
Many people (including myself) have used freeware like VirtualDub and AVISynth....
BOB deinterlacers tend to work well with HDV Interlaced material.
But since i'm shooting Progressive now, i've moved on...It's way too much headache to downconvert interlaced materials with acceptable results, without grinding my machine down on a deinterlace.
And believe it or not, downrezzing HDV Progressive footage to SD is done correctly...
Some pixels get cut on the left and right side, but it's a small price to pay considering the image is downscaled correctly....
I've used Virtualdub and Avisyth with great results in de past. My problem is that I need to batch-encode to a variety of formats which is a hassle when using a frame server.
And like I said before (and on which I'd really like to hear something from Adobe) I think it's downright inexcusable that a professional video editing / exporting program like Premiere and Media Encoder can't do proper deinterlacing. It's 2010 and everybody is exporting files for the web which means that proper progressive output should be a basic feature.
When Adobe started the buzz about CUDA support in CS5 I expected that they would also include GPU based deinterlacing, which is someting nVidia does very well and in real time. I really hope that CUDA deinterlacing for premiere / media encoder will be added in a future patch/update.
You know, that's a fantastic idea...
I never would have thought of using nVidia's deinterlacing engine to work with MPE to do a proper deinterlace and scale down..
Perhaps a feature request to Adobe..Just in time for CS6, and a totally new OpenCL that makes the Cuda cards redundant..
And rather than trying to yell at the wall, the easiest thing to do i just give up, and shoot progressive...
FYI, VirtualDub has a queue that allows for batch processing..
> I'd really like to hear from someone at Adobe about this issue.
This is a user-to-user forum, not an official channel for communicating with Adobe personnel. Some folks on the Premiere Pro team do participate on the forum to help with troubleshooting and such, but it's certainly not the best way to give us feedback on Premiere Pro and report bugs and ask for changes.
The best way to tell us what you want changed is to file a feature request or bug report.
Here's a post that I wrote for After Effects (since I straddle both teams), but the gist is the same for Premiere Pro.
Hey Eric/Pijetro -
Deinterlacing is indeed GPU accelerated if you are on a CUDA system. Are both of you using CUDA? We are always interested in improving any cases that render poorly, if you can share any timelines that do not look as good as you think they should we can see if it is a particular bug is causing the issue or if there is any other way to produce better quality.
Hey fella's, thanks for your responses...
It's a pleasure having employees peruse these boards....
Steve, i'm still sitting on the fence with CS5.0..Perhaps in a few months.
But Steve. Being that deinterlacing is GPU accerlated, how does that tie in with encoding?
Does AME utilize the GPU speed and deinterlacing technique when encoding the final product?
This is a huge deal. Especially for people shooting interlaced...
Since a good deinterlacer is essential for a proper downconvert.
Eric stumbled upon something that seems to be a winfall for Premiere users.
Rather than using Premiere's built in deinterlacer, have the nVidia's GPU perform deinterlacing during playback, and use the same
technique during encoding..
And why stop there..Let the compressionist decide what deinterlacing technique suits him/her the best.
Of course, this might be better directed as an nVidia request, but nonetheless, this could be a win/win for those that need deinterlacing choices..
Hi Todd, Steve,
I'm running CS5 a Cuda enabled system (Intel Core i7 965, 12 GB DDR3, MSI GeForce GTX 285 with 2GB memory and a secondary GeForce 9400GT 1GB, running Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit).
Cuda support is enabled in premiere CS5, as my timelines are yellow even when I enable cuda accelerated effects such as color correction. So no problems there.
I work with 1080i50 HDV and AVCHD files, which I normally use in a HDCAM EX 50i timeline (I use HDCAM EX because that enables me to render all effects and graphics in 1920x1080, instead of a HDV timeline which renders everyting in 1440x1080). I have tried using native HDV timelines too, but that reduces horizontal sharpness on our logo and on sceen graphics, while the deinterlacing problems I encounter are exactly the same.
The problem is that when I export an HDCAM EX timeline to 720p, I get noticable degradation in image sharpness and visible jaggies on our on-screen logo. The same applies when I export to 1080p. When I export to 1080i (so no deinterlacing is done by Premiere or Media Encoder), the file looks great on playback (deinterlacing done in real time by my nVidia card).
For the last few weeks I've been working a round the problem in a way which is not ideal for me, but which does seem to provide better results:
I now work with HDCAM EX 25p timelines instead of 50i, and I set the 'field options' flag for all my clips to 'always deinterlace'. This results in a loss of temporal resolution on my timelines (which I don't really want, since I also export to PAL 50i) but it results in noticably better sharpness and less aliasing on 720p output.
I'd love to share my on-screen logo title if you wish to have a look at it. Our logo contains a circle which shows easily visible jaggies when deinterlaced incorrectly. Please let me know how to get the files to you.